C8 and the future of the Corvette
11-18-2017, 08:09 PM
#41
Team Owner
I don't understand this whole "demographics" thing, Mustang, GT-R, Camaro, Challenger, Porsche, etc....all high performance cars seem to be doing just fine, so when people say that the Corvette people are getting older that makes no sense, it's a sports car just like the rest, I don't think that young people have a vendetta against the Corvette. Who exactly comes up with this, that's what I would like to know......it's a car, no a line of shoes.
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11-18-2017, 08:31 PM
#42
Racer
Time marches on
Gasoline engines will be outlawed due to pollution in twenty years. Electric motors have instant torque from zero on up. They are a much better power source. So for the next twenty years I expect the C8 to transition from Internal Combustion to Hybrid and on to all electric. And I'm sure that at least forty thousand people a year will want one.
11-18-2017, 08:37 PM
#43
OP, I share many of your concerns and I have been call nuts on here for saying that the Corvette has an age demographics problem.
I'll say two things:
1. Unless you are under 20 years old, I think most of us don't have to worry about electrification going mainstream to the extent that the gasoline motor will no longer be produced...this is beyond our lifetime. I think there will be a market for higher end sports cars for years to come - marketed as they are now to folks with disposable income.
2. I am confident GM recognizes the demographics issues they have with the vette. I am sure that has played a huge hand in them deciding to go rear mid engine on the C8. They have gained some ground with the C7 and will continue in that direction with the C8.
I'll say two things:
1. Unless you are under 20 years old, I think most of us don't have to worry about electrification going mainstream to the extent that the gasoline motor will no longer be produced...this is beyond our lifetime. I think there will be a market for higher end sports cars for years to come - marketed as they are now to folks with disposable income.
2. I am confident GM recognizes the demographics issues they have with the vette. I am sure that has played a huge hand in them deciding to go rear mid engine on the C8. They have gained some ground with the C7 and will continue in that direction with the C8.
Last edited by Paulchristian; 11-18-2017 at 08:40 PM.
11-18-2017, 10:54 PM
#45
Race Director
When and if battery tech supersedes electric GM will simply have an electric corvette...
I certainly envision the c8 to be an American version of the highly sophisticated mclaren 570s...with an American twist ...engine and price...
When and if electrics prove superior in the 200k dollar arena...to the mclaren 570...you ll see the corvette become a mass market version of said vehicle...
GM will win and produce a corvette we can afford and enjoy...
That's just what the corvette team does..
There is no question in my mind GM s economy of scale and engineering will deliver.
(Edit) yes I'm biased,
I certainly envision the c8 to be an American version of the highly sophisticated mclaren 570s...with an American twist ...engine and price...
When and if electrics prove superior in the 200k dollar arena...to the mclaren 570...you ll see the corvette become a mass market version of said vehicle...
GM will win and produce a corvette we can afford and enjoy...
That's just what the corvette team does..
There is no question in my mind GM s economy of scale and engineering will deliver.
(Edit) yes I'm biased,
Last edited by JerriVette; 11-18-2017 at 10:55 PM.
11-18-2017, 11:09 PM
#46
Drifting
It is not just cars these young guys have no interest in. Kids have no desire to learn to drive. I remember, as soon as I turned 15, I could not WAIT to get my license. To me a license and a car meant freedom, friends, good times, and yes GIRLS! Now fast forward to the present. Neither of my sons had any desire to learn to drive until they were in their 20s, and had no choice, since they needed to drive to get jobs and go to work. Like many others, they were content to make their "friends" on line. Actual social interaction meant little to them, and the opposite sex only mattered when they were on the other end of a game controller. I am afraid that the fast, sexy cars (and even faster sexier women) that us old guys pursued, have given way to digital anime figures wearing skimpy outfits in video games and as computer downloads...
And yes, kids and even the young adults meet, greet and communicate online. The other thing is that alot of the kids don't have parents, predominantly dads, that get out there and teach the kids to work on the cars. A coworker was telling me how he had to take a couple of hours off from work so he could go home and wash and wax his car. I asked him about his 2 boys, ages 24 and 30, that live at home and why they weren't doing it especially since they didn't work. He said "Well they wouldn't do it right.". I then replied "Well they would are they wouldn't be living there rent free any more.". That is another reason for the lack of car interest.I asked my son the other day if he wanted to help me wash one of the cars and he said "No, not right now. I'm doing something.". Well I replied "You mean, Yes sir. Or else there will be no video games and no chatting with your friends on face time.". He got out there and started helping and then we started cleaning the garage. As we worked we joked and laughed. The next thing I know we are through and he is laughing and having a great time. He runs in the house and tells his mom to come and look at what he did.
So I know that when he isn't doing something, it is my fault. Not his.
Traded in my 13 GS in September when the wife could no longer get in/ out of the car due to medical issues.
First, years ago young people could buy a used car relatively cheap. Now a days there is no cheap Corvette. Second interest is what it is, but, here in Virginia, over 85 mph is a felony. That is half speed of the c6 or C7 and almost only one third the capability of the new ZR1. So, other than status, the car is much more than necessary on the road.
Finally, I hear every one talking about electrics. My daughter has a Tesla.
When she drives down here from Conn. they need a good charger. I ran a 50A line in the garage for them to have a decent rate of charge. As a retired electrical engr. I will say the infrastructure cannot support everyone with a high charger in their garage. So, electrics are still a big question.
If anything may kill the Corvette, it will the tree huggers and liberals who never owned one and experienced the primal feel of real power. Their loss.
First, years ago young people could buy a used car relatively cheap. Now a days there is no cheap Corvette. Second interest is what it is, but, here in Virginia, over 85 mph is a felony. That is half speed of the c6 or C7 and almost only one third the capability of the new ZR1. So, other than status, the car is much more than necessary on the road.
Finally, I hear every one talking about electrics. My daughter has a Tesla.
When she drives down here from Conn. they need a good charger. I ran a 50A line in the garage for them to have a decent rate of charge. As a retired electrical engr. I will say the infrastructure cannot support everyone with a high charger in their garage. So, electrics are still a big question.
If anything may kill the Corvette, it will the tree huggers and liberals who never owned one and experienced the primal feel of real power. Their loss.
The funny thing is that pretty much all of the naysayers are those from California or from other Liberal states with too much say on what you do in your day to day life. In Texas, we have lots of wide open roads that aren't that far away even if you live in a large metropolitan area like Dallas. The sad thing is that we are getting so many Californians due to them messing up their state and losing businesses and jobs. So they come here and try to do the same thing. The funny thing is you just can't get away from them. They are always telling you how to live. I have a niece and nephew that I took off my will because of their political views.
I am not going to help fund their political points of view. As for me, I got my stuff the old fashioned way. I worked for it and I will adapt but 'No sky is falling for me". I will drive my high HP cars until I can't drive any more. Just like I say about my guns "Come and take it. And that they can have my guns when they pry them from my fingers.".
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 11-21-2017 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Merged Posts-Please use the Multi-Quote button (the middle icon) in the lower right hand corner to make your responses look like this!
11-19-2017, 12:59 AM
#47
Instructor
Thread Starter
I don't understand this whole "demographics" thing, Mustang, GT-R, Camaro, Challenger, Porsche, etc....all high performance cars seem to be doing just fine, so when people say that the Corvette people are getting older that makes no sense, it's a sports car just like the rest, I don't think that young people have a vendetta against the Corvette. Who exactly comes up with this, that's what I would like to know......it's a car, no a line of shoes.
is concerned about the aging Corvette demographic. You are correct in that sales so far are holding up which seems on the surface to be a paradox, but the future demographic is a concern. Anecdotally, my local Corvette club has over 100 members, but outside of a couple of exceptions no one is under the age of 60. The same is true of other clubs in the area.
11-19-2017, 01:14 AM
#48
Banned Scam/Spammer
Demographics changed because the price changed. Everything is going out of control. When I bought my new Mustang in 2005 a gt was 23K now your looking at 38-40K. Thanks to wages and taxes and so on soon we all will be driving 200hp rice rockets =-/
11-19-2017, 01:51 AM
#49
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ontroversy-88/
I can tell by the fact that you drive one of those electric types that you are one of the ones he was speaking about.
11-19-2017, 11:22 AM
#50
However, it does not change the OPs original point that young kids don't really car for cars any more like they used to. The advent of the internet has created virtual zombies.
Sure there will always be cars guys...but in the past, 9 out of 10 guys were "car guys" while I imagine that number is closer to 1 out of 10 today.
I am 37 and of all my friends, just 1 is a car guy...the rest couldn't care less.
11-19-2017, 08:36 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by lostsoul
Demographics changed because the price changed. Everything is going out of control. When I bought my new Mustang in 2005 a gt was 23K now your looking at 38-40K. Thanks to wages and taxes and so on soon we all will be driving 200hp rice rockets =-/
11-21-2017, 11:32 AM
#52
I'm late to this party, but I am of the opinion that the mid-engine will be the only Corvette in the future (at a "premium plus" price) and the Camaro will be the recipient of all the front engine/rear drive goodness from once that happens. That will seal its fate I fear.
Probably being Captain Obvious here.
Probably being Captain Obvious here.
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JerriVette (11-28-2017)
11-21-2017, 12:31 PM
#53
When and if battery tech supersedes electric GM will simply have an electric corvette...
I certainly envision the c8 to be an American version of the highly sophisticated mclaren 570s...with an American twist ...engine and price...
When and if electrics prove superior in the 200k dollar arena...to the mclaren 570...you ll see the corvette become a mass market version of said vehicle...
GM will win and produce a corvette we can afford and enjoy...
That's just what the corvette team does..
There is no question in my mind GM s economy of scale and engineering will deliver.
(Edit) yes I'm biased,
I certainly envision the c8 to be an American version of the highly sophisticated mclaren 570s...with an American twist ...engine and price...
When and if electrics prove superior in the 200k dollar arena...to the mclaren 570...you ll see the corvette become a mass market version of said vehicle...
GM will win and produce a corvette we can afford and enjoy...
That's just what the corvette team does..
There is no question in my mind GM s economy of scale and engineering will deliver.
(Edit) yes I'm biased,
11-28-2017, 03:13 AM
#54
Burning Brakes
Corvette consistently sells 25,000 to 40,000 units a year, and it is the highest margin car GM sells. Despite all the hype, if you add up sales of ALL the Lambos, Ferraris, McLarens, Audi R8's etc., they don't equal Corvette sales numbers. The only brand that comes close is Porsche, (~15,000 units), but even Porsche sales are subsidized by their SUV's. Corvette is unique. GM wants a mid-engine sportscar that it can sell for about the same $$$ as a C7. That is the only way they can get the numbers to make the business case close. The number of units is key to keeping the "goose" that lays the golden eggs alive.
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sunsalem (11-28-2017)
11-28-2017, 03:20 AM
#55
Burning Brakes
Gasoline engines will be outlawed due to pollution in twenty years. Electric motors have instant torque from zero on up. They are a much better power source. So for the next twenty years I expect the C8 to transition from Internal Combustion to Hybrid and on to all electric. And I'm sure that at least forty thousand people a year will want one.
For commuting, electric cars are already there, BUT, they will not entirely replace IC-engine cars in your lifetime (Thank God). For a weekend use sports car, make mine a V-8.
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1985 Vette (05-16-2019)
11-28-2017, 09:35 PM
#56
I'm late to this party, but I am of the opinion that the mid-engine will be the only Corvette in the future (at a "premium plus" price) and the Camaro will be the recipient of all the front engine/rear drive goodness from once that happens. That will seal its fate I fear.
Probably being Captain Obvious here.
Probably being Captain Obvious here.
The Camaro's terrible visibility is unbearable and makes it a death trap. The Camaro needs to be resigned with decent visibility if it wants to attract any Corvette owners.
All the stats mean nothing if you can't see out of the clown car that current Camaro is.
I hope GM has some common sense and makes the mid-engine the only layout for Corvette, C8 and beyond, while maintaining the C7's base price.
If so, this proud C6 owner will be ordering another new Corvette at the C8 launch.
Last edited by SSsedanM6; 11-28-2017 at 09:42 PM.
11-28-2017, 10:06 PM
#57
Melting Slicks
Of the cars GM produces I wouldn't think the halo vehicle for Chevy is on the chopping block.
Buick LaCrosse, Chevy impala done. The Cadillac CTS and arts will be merged into one medium sized vehicle.
Corvette is safe although it will evolve as discussed into a rear mid engine sports car should be motivation to bring more people into the corvette family
Buick LaCrosse, Chevy impala done. The Cadillac CTS and arts will be merged into one medium sized vehicle.
Corvette is safe although it will evolve as discussed into a rear mid engine sports car should be motivation to bring more people into the corvette family
11-29-2017, 06:09 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
I fear that the corvette may be nearing the end of the line. Before I begin let me state that I own a c7 that is my 5th corvette, and I am not a troll. Consider the following:
1. The demographics are against cars like the corvette. When you look at
the Bell curve 20 and 30 somethings are not interested in cars like the
corvette.
2. Sales of all sports cars are trending down. Corvette sales have been
flat in recent years, and it appears that most buyers like myself are
repeat buyers; it is not enticing new buyers and expanding the market.
The c7 is a phenomenal bargain for the price, but in this day and age
how many people can afford an 80,000+ toy that is expensive to
maintain and is two seater with zero practicality.
3.Now we come to the elephant in the room--the rapid and almost
exponential electrification of the auto industry. Let's face it, the
internal combustion engine is a dinosaur that was invented 200 years
ago. The concept of valves, pistons, crankshafts, etc is rapidly
becoming obsolete and is being legislated out of existence. 500-1000
mile rapid charge batteries whether they be lithium air or otherwise
now exist in the lab. Hell, even a Tesla will out accelerate a corvette.
I realize there are those among you will say that the current draw
after a few hundred yards burns the battery out, but one can certainly
see the handwriting on the wall.
I know that the concept of an electric, automatic (self drive anyone?)
seems absurd but this seems to be the way things are going. I think the c8 may be the end of the line. GM may be able to extend things a bit with the e-ray, manta ray, etc., but at the end of a 7-8 year run I sadly
doubt there will be a market for a car like the corvette except for old guys like me. If the car still does exist it may be legislated off of public roads. Replies anyone!
1. The demographics are against cars like the corvette. When you look at
the Bell curve 20 and 30 somethings are not interested in cars like the
corvette.
2. Sales of all sports cars are trending down. Corvette sales have been
flat in recent years, and it appears that most buyers like myself are
repeat buyers; it is not enticing new buyers and expanding the market.
The c7 is a phenomenal bargain for the price, but in this day and age
how many people can afford an 80,000+ toy that is expensive to
maintain and is two seater with zero practicality.
3.Now we come to the elephant in the room--the rapid and almost
exponential electrification of the auto industry. Let's face it, the
internal combustion engine is a dinosaur that was invented 200 years
ago. The concept of valves, pistons, crankshafts, etc is rapidly
becoming obsolete and is being legislated out of existence. 500-1000
mile rapid charge batteries whether they be lithium air or otherwise
now exist in the lab. Hell, even a Tesla will out accelerate a corvette.
I realize there are those among you will say that the current draw
after a few hundred yards burns the battery out, but one can certainly
see the handwriting on the wall.
I know that the concept of an electric, automatic (self drive anyone?)
seems absurd but this seems to be the way things are going. I think the c8 may be the end of the line. GM may be able to extend things a bit with the e-ray, manta ray, etc., but at the end of a 7-8 year run I sadly
doubt there will be a market for a car like the corvette except for old guys like me. If the car still does exist it may be legislated off of public roads. Replies anyone!
I just had a conversation the other day with a 20 year old checkout kid at my grocery store commenting on my hat about Corvette was his dream car....
11-29-2017, 06:11 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
With it's horrendous visibility, the Camaro isn't a replacement for any Corvette. I'd still rather drive my C5 or my C6 than a 2019 ZL1.
The Camaro's terrible visibility is unbearable and makes it a death trap. The Camaro needs to be resigned with decent visibility if it wants to attract any Corvette owners.
All the stats mean nothing if you can't see out of the clown car that current Camaro is.
I hope GM has some common sense and makes the mid-engine the only layout for Corvette, C8 and beyond, while maintaining the C7's base price.
If so, this proud C6 owner will be ordering another new Corvette at the C8 launch.
The Camaro's terrible visibility is unbearable and makes it a death trap. The Camaro needs to be resigned with decent visibility if it wants to attract any Corvette owners.
All the stats mean nothing if you can't see out of the clown car that current Camaro is.
I hope GM has some common sense and makes the mid-engine the only layout for Corvette, C8 and beyond, while maintaining the C7's base price.
If so, this proud C6 owner will be ordering another new Corvette at the C8 launch.
LOL.
Go drive run and stop repeating newsstand crap. The camaro is an amazing vehicle and a lot less daylight from a C7 than you'd think. This Corvette owner is pretty happy when his wife tosses him the keys.
11-29-2017, 07:11 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
Suns--You bring up a most interesting point; one, that I have recently been lamenting about with many of my local Corvette club members. I, like you, love my c7--awesome engineering for the price. But where can I drive it. Here in Sacramento the traffic and roads are awful, and I am afraid to drive it anywhere. It is used mostly for club activities and out of town travel on the open road. Unfortunately, it is a garage queen much of the time. I find it frustrating