GM knows how to pack value into the ME
05-23-2018, 11:27 PM
#21
16 Vettes and counting…..
Think what you want, but the Corvette, ME, ZR1, whatever, isn't competing with the Maclarens, Ferraris, Lamborghini's, Ford GT's Bugattis and higher end Porsches. People that have $300k or more to spend on a car aren't going to by a car regular people can afford, and it has zero to do with performance. Unless GM goes the Ford route (low volume & high price) and limits production to under 1,000 cars per year (which I hope they don't), the people who buy exotics will have no interest in the ME.
I might be wrong, but I don't think he meant "competing" for the same buyer, but competing at the same level of performance. McLaren buyers are not cross-shopping Corvettes.
The attraction of the ME will be to offer similar performance of the exotics at prices commensurate with current Corvettes....just as they do now but on a ME platform. That is the key to the continued sales success of the Corvette.
05-24-2018, 01:07 AM
#22
Safety Car
GM is not going the low volume, high price method for the ME, in fact the opposite.
05-24-2018, 06:15 AM
#23
Le Mans Master
Exactly.
The C8 base is going to have a starting cost very similar to the base C7.
Those exotics are mostly financial losers, and GM can't charge $400K for their cars and ever sell more than just a few hundred. Just the fact that they built a large plant is proof that they are intending on a volume sports car.
The NSX is a heavy turd. It's worth about $69K imo for the decoration crowd. People who want to look fast but will get their clock cleaned by a $22K C5Z at any track day. That's why it's a failure. I could have looked at the specs and told the engineers that before they built the final product and saved them a few million in loses. Basically I would have told them to build a C8!
GM knows what they are doing, most C8 enthusiasts don't. If enthusiasts were able to chose options and the resultant pricing, there wouldn't be a Corvette 5 years from now.
The C8 will be an amazing value costing around $70K for killer performance. It will be nice inside but not perfect and people will complain about features they wish it had (i.e active aero, front axle lift, etc) but it won't because they cost too much for a base Corvette. People say "GM should add so and so cause they will sell more of them, but in reality the cost increase means they sell LESS of them. That's reality.
The fact that the C8 will have a pickup truck engine is brilliant. It's reliable, powerful, easy to mod, proven, light, and very inexpensive to produce. The economies of scale are no joke. Between development costs, increased manufacturing, and higher costs leading to lost sales, a fancy C8 specific engine could easily cost GM another $10K a vehicle right there.
The C8 base is going to have a starting cost very similar to the base C7.
Those exotics are mostly financial losers, and GM can't charge $400K for their cars and ever sell more than just a few hundred. Just the fact that they built a large plant is proof that they are intending on a volume sports car.
The NSX is a heavy turd. It's worth about $69K imo for the decoration crowd. People who want to look fast but will get their clock cleaned by a $22K C5Z at any track day. That's why it's a failure. I could have looked at the specs and told the engineers that before they built the final product and saved them a few million in loses. Basically I would have told them to build a C8!
GM knows what they are doing, most C8 enthusiasts don't. If enthusiasts were able to chose options and the resultant pricing, there wouldn't be a Corvette 5 years from now.
The C8 will be an amazing value costing around $70K for killer performance. It will be nice inside but not perfect and people will complain about features they wish it had (i.e active aero, front axle lift, etc) but it won't because they cost too much for a base Corvette. People say "GM should add so and so cause they will sell more of them, but in reality the cost increase means they sell LESS of them. That's reality.
The fact that the C8 will have a pickup truck engine is brilliant. It's reliable, powerful, easy to mod, proven, light, and very inexpensive to produce. The economies of scale are no joke. Between development costs, increased manufacturing, and higher costs leading to lost sales, a fancy C8 specific engine could easily cost GM another $10K a vehicle right there.
Last edited by Suns_PSD; 05-24-2018 at 06:16 AM.
05-24-2018, 08:49 AM
#24
Le Mans Master
I would agree here. I believe GM is looking to leverage its significant economies of scale which has been a fundamental premise for the 65+ years of the Corvette. The Corvette has always punched above its weight and now I think GM is looking to demonstrate that again with mid-engine, high technology drivetrain.
The following users liked this post:
GundamX7X (05-25-2018)
05-24-2018, 10:55 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yes, my point is that GM will produce this ME that will perform up to what Mclaren and Ferrari are making at a price that will be much less. I am sure that anyone with the bucks to buy the Ferrari are most concerned about how they look when they go to the club! lol.. Guess I am just hopeful they can produce a great looking car with amazing performance and at the right price. When I look at my 2015 Z06 it surprises me what it can do and how it looks for a base price of $78k...the ME will be the same
05-24-2018, 11:06 AM
#26
Safety Car
There will be brand conquests. A friend of mine who never owned a single American vehicle, but two Porsches, a Lotus, a Ferrari and a Land Rover, bought a 2014 C7. Loved it so much, he bought an upgraded one the following year. And BTW, what does he daily choose to drive, his Z51.
Mike Furman has noted that he is increasingly getting owners of Porsches, even a Maserati and a Ferrari owner to buy their first Corvette ever. Not that even 1/3 of them are getting rid of their highly priced cars (though some are doing just that), but that they are now buying a Corvette. Is this a tidal wave? Of course not, but this started with the C7, and “sports cars of other makes, being Corvette brand conquests” will expand significantly with the ME.
Mike Furman has noted that he is increasingly getting owners of Porsches, even a Maserati and a Ferrari owner to buy their first Corvette ever. Not that even 1/3 of them are getting rid of their highly priced cars (though some are doing just that), but that they are now buying a Corvette. Is this a tidal wave? Of course not, but this started with the C7, and “sports cars of other makes, being Corvette brand conquests” will expand significantly with the ME.
Last edited by elegant; 05-24-2018 at 11:07 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Bwright (05-24-2018)
05-24-2018, 11:13 AM
#27
Team Owner
There will be brand conquests. A friend of mine who never owned a single American vehicle, but two Porsches, a Lotus, a Ferrari and a Land Rover, bought a 2014 C7. Loved it so much, he bought an upgraded one the following year. And BTW, what does he daily choose to drive, his Z51.
Mike Furman has noted that he is increasingly getting owners of Porsches, even a Maserati and a Ferrari owner to buy their first Corvette ever. Not that even 1/3 of them are getting rid of their highly priced cars (though some are doing just that), but that they are now buying a Corvette. Is this a tidal wave? Of course not, but this started with the C7, and “sports cars of other makes, being Corvette brand conquests” will expand significantly with the ME.
Mike Furman has noted that he is increasingly getting owners of Porsches, even a Maserati and a Ferrari owner to buy their first Corvette ever. Not that even 1/3 of them are getting rid of their highly priced cars (though some are doing just that), but that they are now buying a Corvette. Is this a tidal wave? Of course not, but this started with the C7, and “sports cars of other makes, being Corvette brand conquests” will expand significantly with the ME.
Another neighbor has a SL500 and has no interest in a Corvette. A ME Corvette won't change his mind.
05-24-2018, 12:54 PM
#28
Race Director
Ferrari, MCLAREN , Aston Martin as well as Lamborghini owners will buy the c8 as a daily driver sports car and track rat.
These are the guys who will pay over msrp early on
Depreciation and consumables are comparatively minimal in GM s corvette to those exotics...
It’s chump change
Conquest sales where the other brand owner keeps his exotic car to show off and the c8to use,
These are the guys who will pay over msrp early on
Depreciation and consumables are comparatively minimal in GM s corvette to those exotics...
It’s chump change
Conquest sales where the other brand owner keeps his exotic car to show off and the c8to use,
Last edited by JerriVette; 05-24-2018 at 12:59 PM.
05-24-2018, 02:36 PM
#29
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,267
Received 5,460 Likes
on
2,274 Posts
I remember the 1st gen NSX. It was affordable (relatively), performed well, and was reliable and easy to service.
That proved to be a reckoning of sorts for Ferrari, as the boys in Maranello could no longer get away with making and selling junk. The NSX forced Ferrari to increase reliability and serviceability.
I could see the ME having a similar affect. I have the means to purchase an exotic. I haven't, because I live in the middle of nowhere, and have no desire to deal the hassle factor basic service would entail. My neighbor once a year ships his two Bentleys for service.
I'll jump on the opportunity to have an ME with stout performance and relatively decent serviceability. I bet others will too.
That proved to be a reckoning of sorts for Ferrari, as the boys in Maranello could no longer get away with making and selling junk. The NSX forced Ferrari to increase reliability and serviceability.
I could see the ME having a similar affect. I have the means to purchase an exotic. I haven't, because I live in the middle of nowhere, and have no desire to deal the hassle factor basic service would entail. My neighbor once a year ships his two Bentleys for service.
I'll jump on the opportunity to have an ME with stout performance and relatively decent serviceability. I bet others will too.
05-24-2018, 03:41 PM
#30
16 Vettes and counting…..
I remember the 1st gen NSX. It was affordable (relatively), performed well, and was reliable and easy to service.
That proved to be a reckoning of sorts for Ferrari, as the boys in Maranello could no longer get away with making and selling junk. The NSX forced Ferrari to increase reliability and serviceability.
I could see the ME having a similar affect. I have the means to purchase an exotic. I haven't, because I live in the middle of nowhere, and have no desire to deal the hassle factor basic service would entail. My neighbor once a year ships his two Bentleys for service.
I'll jump on the opportunity to have an ME with stout performance and relatively decent serviceability. I bet others will too.
That proved to be a reckoning of sorts for Ferrari, as the boys in Maranello could no longer get away with making and selling junk. The NSX forced Ferrari to increase reliability and serviceability.
I could see the ME having a similar affect. I have the means to purchase an exotic. I haven't, because I live in the middle of nowhere, and have no desire to deal the hassle factor basic service would entail. My neighbor once a year ships his two Bentleys for service.
I'll jump on the opportunity to have an ME with stout performance and relatively decent serviceability. I bet others will too.
Absolutely. Just before we got "word" that a mid engine Corvette was in the pipeline, I was looking for a 458 as a bucket list thing. After my nightmare experience with an SL550 (also had to try one of those) I was less enamored of the of dues that come along with owning a high priced, less than reliable semi-exotic. I don't need the stress of owning a finicky thoroughbred race horse. The possibility of a mid engine Corvette, regardless of price, is much more appealing to me.
I'm not saying it will take the place of a Ferrari, and I may still go that route anyway, but I'm going to wait and see what GM has to offer.
05-24-2018, 03:44 PM
#31
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,267
Received 5,460 Likes
on
2,274 Posts
Absolutely. Just before we got "word" that a mid engine Corvette was in the pipeline, I was looking for a 458 as a bucket list thing. After my nightmare experience with an SL550 (also had to try one of those) I was less enamored of the of dues that come along with owning a high priced, less than reliable semi-exotic. I don't need the stress of owning a finicky thoroughbred race horse. The possibility of a mid engine Corvette, regardless of price, is much more appealing to me.
I'm not saying it will take the place of a Ferrari, and I may still go that route anyway, but I'm going to wait and see what GM has to offer.
I'm not saying it will take the place of a Ferrari, and I may still go that route anyway, but I'm going to wait and see what GM has to offer.
05-24-2018, 07:50 PM
#32
Not necessarily. The NSX is on par with an LFA, in that the brand really produced the car as an exercise in engineering, more than to create a legacy brand or icon car. Lexus/Toyota went into the LFA acknowledging the car would lose money, and profits weren't it's expectation...it was more about a new design ideology, the "F" branding, etc. I think NSX really sets the stage for what Acura hopes for it's future with SH AWD hybrid tech.
People who buy the NSX are "Honda guys"...and that's that. For example...me...I'd buy the NSX for sure. I certainly would love a more "purist" model but...I'm intrigued by the car for the price...and frankly, underloved HALO's are a buyers game. Just like the LFA...though it cost 375k to start, each unit cost Toyota easily over 1mil to put on the street in total...that's a bargain from a major OEM. Today...they still cost MSRP...no one lost a dime driving it after a few years passed.
Mclaren is just in a different ball park...it's Porsche with a little bit of Koenigsegg mixed in....it's rare exotic, but hits above the belt with creature comfort and big brand like refinements. Mclarens are a bargain in my book all day.
Point is...NSX to Mclaren, not really a comparison.
People who buy the NSX are "Honda guys"...and that's that. For example...me...I'd buy the NSX for sure. I certainly would love a more "purist" model but...I'm intrigued by the car for the price...and frankly, underloved HALO's are a buyers game. Just like the LFA...though it cost 375k to start, each unit cost Toyota easily over 1mil to put on the street in total...that's a bargain from a major OEM. Today...they still cost MSRP...no one lost a dime driving it after a few years passed.
Mclaren is just in a different ball park...it's Porsche with a little bit of Koenigsegg mixed in....it's rare exotic, but hits above the belt with creature comfort and big brand like refinements. Mclarens are a bargain in my book all day.
Point is...NSX to Mclaren, not really a comparison.
05-24-2018, 08:25 PM
#33
Le Mans Master
They need to stop packing! ;)
- (Z51 C6 3,200lb), CCB, (LSD), PTM(PACK!), CF winged aero, (CF wheels), (500 HP LT6 dry sump), SS tires, M7
- C8R
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/18/...formance-cars/
Unpack GM!
- C8R
https://www.autoblog.com/2016/05/18/...formance-cars/
Unpack GM!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 05-25-2018 at 01:51 PM.
05-24-2018, 09:28 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
Exactly.
The C8 base is going to have a starting cost very similar to the base C7.
Those exotics are mostly financial losers, and GM can't charge $400K for their cars and ever sell more than just a few hundred. Just the fact that they built a large plant is proof that they are intending on a volume sports car.
The NSX is a heavy turd. It's worth about $69K imo for the decoration crowd. People who want to look fast but will get their clock cleaned by a $22K C5Z at any track day. That's why it's a failure. I could have looked at the specs and told the engineers that before they built the final product and saved them a few million in loses. Basically I would have told them to build a C8!
GM knows what they are doing, most C8 enthusiasts don't. If enthusiasts were able to chose options and the resultant pricing, there wouldn't be a Corvette 5 years from now.
The C8 will be an amazing value costing around $70K for killer performance. It will be nice inside but not perfect and people will complain about features they wish it had (i.e active aero, front axle lift, etc) but it won't because they cost too much for a base Corvette. People say "GM should add so and so cause they will sell more of them, but in reality the cost increase means they sell LESS of them. That's reality.
The fact that the C8 will have a pickup truck engine is brilliant. It's reliable, powerful, easy to mod, proven, light, and very inexpensive to produce. The economies of scale are no joke. Between development costs, increased manufacturing, and higher costs leading to lost sales, a fancy C8 specific engine could easily cost GM another $10K a vehicle right there.
The C8 base is going to have a starting cost very similar to the base C7.
Those exotics are mostly financial losers, and GM can't charge $400K for their cars and ever sell more than just a few hundred. Just the fact that they built a large plant is proof that they are intending on a volume sports car.
The NSX is a heavy turd. It's worth about $69K imo for the decoration crowd. People who want to look fast but will get their clock cleaned by a $22K C5Z at any track day. That's why it's a failure. I could have looked at the specs and told the engineers that before they built the final product and saved them a few million in loses. Basically I would have told them to build a C8!
GM knows what they are doing, most C8 enthusiasts don't. If enthusiasts were able to chose options and the resultant pricing, there wouldn't be a Corvette 5 years from now.
The C8 will be an amazing value costing around $70K for killer performance. It will be nice inside but not perfect and people will complain about features they wish it had (i.e active aero, front axle lift, etc) but it won't because they cost too much for a base Corvette. People say "GM should add so and so cause they will sell more of them, but in reality the cost increase means they sell LESS of them. That's reality.
The fact that the C8 will have a pickup truck engine is brilliant. It's reliable, powerful, easy to mod, proven, light, and very inexpensive to produce. The economies of scale are no joke. Between development costs, increased manufacturing, and higher costs leading to lost sales, a fancy C8 specific engine could easily cost GM another $10K a vehicle right there.
05-25-2018, 06:33 PM
#35
It misses the entire point of having an exotic in the first place.
05-25-2018, 08:16 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Anyone who thinks the c8 is going to start out at 56,000 like a base c7 is smoking crack. People just get over it and accept these are going to be 100,000 cars. I know alot of folks want to own a mid engine car for peanuts but its not reality.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
05-25-2018, 08:41 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
If they try to follow the race car!? ;)
Anyone who thinks the c8 is going to start out at 56,000 like a base c7 is smoking crack. People just get over it and accept these are going to be 100,000 cars. I know alot of folks want to own a mid engine car for peanuts but its not reality.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
The extreme mods need to be planned and validated, not bandaids!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 05-25-2018 at 09:53 PM.
05-26-2018, 01:52 AM
#38
People just get over it and accept these are going to be 100,000 cars. I know alot of folks want to own a mid engine car for peanuts but its not reality.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
05-26-2018, 01:58 AM
#39
16 Vettes and counting…..
Anyone who thinks the c8 is going to start out at 56,000 like a base c7 is smoking crack. People just get over it and accept these are going to be 100,000 cars. I know alot of folks want to own a mid engine car for peanuts but its not reality.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
accept it and stick within your budgets. If you cant step up to a mid engine so be it.
all the people crying about the pricing are like hoping for a lotto win.
the corvette is NOT the affordable car it used to be.
geez.
geez.......
Last edited by VETTE-NV; 05-26-2018 at 02:00 AM.
