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Each new generation is slightly better than the last..
This is all a matter of opinion but I will say to me the C6 is better than the C7. The body style of the C6 kills the C7 body style. The C7 might have the better interior, but as for the gauge cluster I am not a fan of digital. Sure the rest of the interior is of better quality and finish. But for me frankly the exterior body style is way more important and the C6 wide body just kills it.
The Fiero GT was very cheap to buy by 1988 (Starting at &13,999) and deservably so, compared to a 1988 Corvette Hatchback Coupe (Starting at $29,480). My ‘88 Fiero Gt had an MSRP of ~$16,500 and I paid ~$12,500. A ~25% discount! Thus, if both Corvette FE and ME are built, at least initially concurrently at BG, the delta between them will dictate how BG’s build capacity will be split. In the end I suspect the FE will eventually be discontinued as subsequent ME upgrades appear the following years. When?
I don't believe cars like the Fiero and MR2 are comparable to a ME Corvette. C7 demand for the first two years was in excess of build capacity. Something new and exotic in the Corvette line, I believe will be the same. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by LIStingray
That is the only part of the equation I think is wrong. GM could make in excess of 40,000 ME per year at Bowling Green - We haven't seen close to that demand for C7's since 2015, and no mid-engine car since the 1985 Pontiac Fiero has sold more than 40,000 units per year - the Toyota MR2's best year of 1985 was 32,000 units. The Fiero was a moderately priced ME car, the C8 at an average MSRP sales price of $80k (same as the current C7 - which is probably low) is not moderately priced, so unless the car can be as broad in appeal as the C7, it is tough to see 40,000 unit sales per year.
Agree, I just don't see GM running both cars simultaneously. Demand for a moderately priced ME will far outstrip available capacity. There is no reason to keep running the C7 for a couple of years per the earlier rumors and speculation.
There simply isnt a demand for 30k+ ME Corvettes a year.
Good points gentlemen, that it is very probable that the next front engined Corvette is already fully designed. Thank you.
However, a design completion does not automatically mean that consequent production execution would be forthcoming.
I understand the love of Corvette front engined cars. We have a C7 Z06 and LOVE our car. It is gorgeous and exciting, a great curvy corner carver as well as a fantastic road tripper, a wonderful around town driver — and so much more.
However, all that does not guarantee that we will have a front engined Corvette forever down the road. Even if we got a petition and had it signed by the roughly 1,500,000 current owners of front-engined Corvettes, that does not mean the FE would indefinitely continue.
I sure have no inside knowledge that the FE is being discontinued. Might, conversely GM have already concluded that at least for the five plus years that we will have both FE and ME’s every year? For sure that is possible.
However, do we not think GM is discussing lots of things about the future of the Corvette brand and that they too have not made all their decisions yet?
The sports car world is changing, and GM is properly looking at many options, and one of those is also possible, that when 2021 ends, so would have all FE Corvettes.
I sure do not know, do not believe anyone on this forum now knows, and why, because I believe that GM does not yet know.
I find that hard to believe.
I think it it would be great if they built both FE and ME but I just don’t see how they could do that with a platform that sells only 32K units a year. The reason Corvette has been successful for so long is that GM requires it to stand on its own in terms of profit, unlike the Viper or Ford GT.
p.s. jealous of your C7Z.
Last edited by need-for-speed; 06-23-2018 at 12:09 PM.
While I strongly believe that we will see at least one version of the C7 next year — as the ZR1 was designed as a two year model (originally coming out as the 2018, 65th Anniversary model and living through 2019), I truly have not a clue as to whether it will be joined by the SR, the GS and the Z06. Methinks, it will have C7 cousins on the assembly line next year, but what if the ME is a runaway success with 50,000 sold orders, yet only 33K total overtime Plant capacity?
Might GM make, just by sheer production quotas, limited edition 2020 SR’s, GS’s and Z06’s, thus making them as scarce as hens teeth and ending both GM flex cash to sell them (roughly $6K per car), and ending dealer discounts of the kind we have seen.
I truly believe we will again see 192/month ZR1’s produced next year, but I have not clue one as to how many, of what kind of C7’s, in what numbers Of other C7 models will also be made?
As one GM person whispered to me at the BASH (after looking around to insure no other GM staff nor anyone else was within earshot), and his comment was so broad it could mean absolutely anything (or nothing), expect the unexpected!
Last edited by elegant; 06-23-2018 at 06:49 PM.
Reason: Typo fix.
I think the only way that this happens is if the car is rebranded. It can’t be a “Chevrolet Corvette”. Maybe The brand name is simply Corvette with Zora at the high end as ME and Stingray at the low end as a FE. But I don’t know many people that are going to pay $150k to $175k for a Chevrolet! (I actually don’t think the ME will get to that kinda a price). You certainly aren’t going to get a lot of Porsche, Ferrari or Lombo buyers to pay that kind of money for a Chevrolet!
Alot of people said the same thing about a Ford... but the GT is sold out at what... 3 times that? And there aren't any just collecting dust in dealerships. I could see a ME Corvette sold at a premium over the FE car, and at much lower numbers. But it has to have a much nicer interior than the C7 has and have performance that puts it above the Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo cars at that price point.
But I agree with the statement that the only way this works is to "rebrand". The FE car stays "Corvette" or "Corvette Stingray" while the ME car is branded "Corvette Zora".
they didn't expand the plant to double its size to build 1 car.
Plant annual production capacity was reduced by 18.5% as a result of last year’s 13 week gut and re-built, e.g. from 40,500 units per year to 33,000 U/Y “even with “firewall capacity overtime.” Source = Kai Spande. The Plaint shop is huge but not one square foot of it, nor the new “manifold building” which connects the new paint shop with the “old/pre-existing plant,” has unused space for an assembly line expansion (nor a second line).
Plant annual production capacity was reduced by 18.5% as a result of last year’s 13 week gut and re-built, e.g. from 40,500 units per year to 33,000 U/Y “even with “firewall capacity overtime.” Source = Kai Spande. The Plaint shop is huge but not one square foot of it, nor the new “manifold building” which connects the new paint shop with the “old/pre-existing plant,” has unused space for an assembly line expansion (nor a second line).
First, the Powertrain Build Center is expanding a significant amount.
Second, the area of the old paint shop was completely decontamined, inspected by the State and confirmed to be free of all contamination per current rules (parts of it went back to 1985 with the lesser environmental standards than todays). It is now an empty, sealed off box.
In Kentucky, you can get a tax abatement for an industrial area within a building that is no longer useable (sealed off). Kai said at a public presentation in April, that GM has filed for that abatement — and in fact it could have already been granted.
That is a several year commitment to keep that space unused in return for the tax abatement — not just something you can lock off for a year, open up the next year, and vice-versa).
I do not have anything to base this on, but my best SWAG is that in 2023 we shall see an all electric powered Cadillac sports car, that it will be build within BGA in that “end of five year sealed off,” 250,000 square feet — or what is left of that amount of square footage as a result of the Powertrain Build Center’s expansion.
Alot of people said the same thing about a Ford... but the GT is sold out at what... 3 times that? And there aren't any just collecting dust in dealerships.
True, and yet it is really easy to sell an emotionally iconic car if only producing the same 250 units/year and then for only three years.
I can see GM bringing out the 1,000 HP ZORA version in roughly three years, pricing it at $175,000-$200,000 and selling it for three years at about 500-1000 units per year. That would be the appropriate icing on the car for the ME, the equivalent of the ZR1 compared to earlier C7 models. Before then however, GM needs to bring out lesser-powered, high quality, great interiored, superb-panel-fit ME’s which start below or around $100K — selling them at 20,000+ units per year.
First, the Powertrain Build Center is expanding a significant amount.
Second, the area of the old paint shop was completely decontamined, inspected by the State and confirmed to be free of all contamination per current rules (parts of it went back to 1985 with the lesser environmental standards than todays). It is now an empty, sealed off box.
In Kentucky, you can get a tax abatement for an industrial area within a building that is no longer useable (sealed off). Kai said at a public presentation in April, that GM has filed for that abatement — and in fact it could have already been granted.
That is a several year commitment to keep that space unused in return for the tax abatement — not just something you can lock off for a year, open up the next year, and vice-versa).
I do not have anything to base this on, but my best SWAG is that in 2023 we shall see an all electric powered Cadillac sports car, that it will be build within BGA in that “end of five year sealed off,” 250,000 square feet — or what is left of that amount of square footage as a result of the Powertrain Build Center’s expansion.
GM and Kentucky also entered into an agreement for some tax incentives based on GM increasing the workforce at Bowling Green by 270 employees. You don't add 28% additional employees to build fewer cars to sell for a cheaper price.
My prediction, which is worth about the same as everybody else's: NOTHING.
C7 ZR1 will continue for a couple more years. The 2019 model year production will continue until about a year from now, letting all the front engine diehards get on some great deals for the outgoing C7. Probably at least 40K 2019's will be built....it's a long model year run. Only the ZR1 will continue until 2021. The C7 will go down in history as the last, and by far the best, of the FE Corvettes.
ME debuts in Detroit, 1/19 as a 2020 model and is the new C8. Base price will be $67,999.00, production will begin in 9/19 and ramped up slowly. C8 during the first year will easily match the sales number of the C7 and prices of the base car will climb at least $1k per year. Higher performance versions will appear in the following several years. Convertible debuts within 6 months of the coupe at $7K more. C7 ZR1 dies by end of 2021 and another car, probably not a Corvette, will eventually be produced at BG.
I rarely buy first year cars, but I'll probably make an exception with the ME. No way I'll be able to wait two more years. Hopefully I'll have a C8 sitting next to my C7 by Christmas of 2019.
Of course, I could be completely wrong about some or all of this.
Not yet. They don't make it yet. But there will be.
You've obviously never lived with a mid engined car. I have and it's a compromise. Like most fantasy driven mid engined only crowd they are still wallowing in a wet dream they have never experienced. But carry on!!
06-20-2018, 08:34 AM
