Will the C8 follow suit of past generations and go after Porsche 911 or Exotics?
#21
Melting Slicks
I definitely agree, however it’s great for us second-hand buyers. A McLaren 12C is now under 100k. I plan on that being my 2019 purchase. I do believe the newer McLarens like the 720 will hold their value better though.
As for the C8s target, I’m sure it’ll still be Porsche. And is that a bad thing? Porsche makes some incredible track cars. Now being mid-engine the Vette might have a shot at holding a torch to the GT3/2.
Good points. I think performance wise the Corvette is a bargain and is almost hard to beat when comparing it to other sports cars. Now that they are going mid-engine it reduces that spread even further. Buying the other high-end exotics are about exclusivity, the experience, higher-end leathers, materials & Dealership not just performance. Cars are getting better every day just look at Hyundai/KIA as an example. When it first came out it was a POS Today they are up Honda's A with their only issue being resale, they build a nice product that competes in their car demographic.
The Mclaren 12C price range for a clean used is in the 120 range high miles maybe 100, clean car have not hit below 100k yet or one would be in my garage. I have owned many exotic cars, the ME Corvette will be my 61 purchase if I can wait that long & yes I am still young not even close to retirement. I purchased a clean manual R8 that only had 15k miles on it. I do my research on all the cars I buy, this is key for anyone buying a high-end car or any product. I Found out the R8 has two major inherited issues: AC compressor and the mag ride shocks go out. These two issues are not cheap to fix, AC fix requires the engine to be pulled mine was 7,200 dollars to fix at an Audi dealer. The mag shocks are around 2k per wheel at a dealer to fix, My cost on parts is 5200 if I do the work myself. My point I knew this was a problem and even though the car went through a clean PPI from Audi those items failed in 18 months of ownership. I purchased a warranty through Audi for 4 years 50k miles at a price of 2k. The fix: I only paid 250 deductible for 16k in total repairs during my 18 months of ownership. The Mclaren 124C was the first true production car for the brand, it has a long list of issues with some owners not having that many problems. You buy any used high-end car you get a trusted warranty unless you like writing checks. Porsche builds incredible products that are very reliable and almost bulletproof that can get up there on price. I get annoyed when people say O stay away from European cars because they are ****, cost so much to repair and they break down all the time. While most saying this have never owned or even driven one of these cars & got their source on the internet since it has made all of us all experts. The statement to stay away from European cars is not true all purchases have a risk as I have owned every major brand multiple times and had few problems and was prepared when they did occur. Even on this forum, you can find a list of people that had issues with engines, paint, AC, overheating problems with their new or pre-owned Corvettes. My new 15/Z06 was fine other than my headliner fell on my head while going to a car meet with only 300 miles on it. I replaced it with leather headliner to match the seats. I never called the dealer as I thought the foam felt cheap compared to other parts of the car. I have a friend who drives his 458 daily and has over 40 thousand miles on the car without any issues other than regular maintenance. His resale will suffer like any higher mileage sports car but he doesn't care.
I always say If it’s mechanical I can promise you it will eventually break regardless of brand & price you paid for it, the goal is to be prepared when it does.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-09-2018 at 05:43 PM.
#22
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
So instead of calling it super car or whatever you want here is ultimately what those cars are a boutique experience.
Is someone going to buy a C8 over a 488? I doubt if they can afford it, more than likely they will get both.
You don't have Corvette owners who own a Ferrari, you have Ferrari owners who own a Corvette. There is a big difference in that.
The performance gap gets smaller and smaller so Ferrari and the rest move the post. Material quality, custom car anyway you want, *** kissing dealer experience, etc.
I don't get the obsession over this whole idea anyways. There is no magic to make a 300K car cost 80K, there just isn't. You can make an 80K car as fast as a 300K car, but it still isn't the same thing.
If I had 488 money, I'd get a 488. I'm not there yet but I'm getting there and the bigger issue over the price of the car is the cost of ownership. I don't have it so I'm getting a C8.
I love Porsche's. Chevy will never be Porsche. Drive their cars, sit in them, and walk around them in detail they are a world apart in detail engineering. They build what they want to build and price it accordingly. Chevy starts with a price and builds it accordingly.
Go to a Porsche dealer and spend some real time walking around a 911, or any of their cars. If you can't see the difference then you probably don't care about those things. I think most Porsche owners care about it, the others just want the brand or the name.
But in the end the Corvette is going to be a better performing car once I am done with it and I can live with the detail engineering for 1/2 the cost.
Is someone going to buy a C8 over a 488? I doubt if they can afford it, more than likely they will get both.
You don't have Corvette owners who own a Ferrari, you have Ferrari owners who own a Corvette. There is a big difference in that.
The performance gap gets smaller and smaller so Ferrari and the rest move the post. Material quality, custom car anyway you want, *** kissing dealer experience, etc.
I don't get the obsession over this whole idea anyways. There is no magic to make a 300K car cost 80K, there just isn't. You can make an 80K car as fast as a 300K car, but it still isn't the same thing.
If I had 488 money, I'd get a 488. I'm not there yet but I'm getting there and the bigger issue over the price of the car is the cost of ownership. I don't have it so I'm getting a C8.
I love Porsche's. Chevy will never be Porsche. Drive their cars, sit in them, and walk around them in detail they are a world apart in detail engineering. They build what they want to build and price it accordingly. Chevy starts with a price and builds it accordingly.
Go to a Porsche dealer and spend some real time walking around a 911, or any of their cars. If you can't see the difference then you probably don't care about those things. I think most Porsche owners care about it, the others just want the brand or the name.
But in the end the Corvette is going to be a better performing car once I am done with it and I can live with the detail engineering for 1/2 the cost.
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Shaka (09-09-2018)
#23
Le Mans Master
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2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
They missed a huge opportunity going away from the manual box.
The styling appears to be more Camaro than Corvette, which again is a huge missed opportunity.
To me they are being waaaaaaay too conservative.
The styling appears to be more Camaro than Corvette, which again is a huge missed opportunity.
To me they are being waaaaaaay too conservative.
#24
Le Mans Master
They need s separate design studio for the Corvette far, far away from the GM Design Center, so the designs are not tainted by other ho-hum GM styling DNA. Move it to Italy. Better yet put it in Maranello, where Ferrari is located.
#26
Team Owner
Porsche's quality are more about perception than reality. A $90K 911 is not all that! Sure option the hell out of the interior and you'll have a pretty nice interior. Sit in a $65K Boxster and you'll have a very similar interior as a $30K VW CC. Driving experience is kind of subjective and personal preference and some people love the 911's feel and to some it's just meh! Porsche's are vastly overpriced but their marketing is brilliant and they kind of get away with it! Not defending the Corvette but I get tired of people pissing on its quality compared to other high-line cars. Does GM need to improve the interior quality? Sure, but it's almost right there. I am NOT in the camp of saying "it's a great a car for the money". I think the Corvette is a great car regardless of money and hope GM keeps improving it so it loses that stigma.
I'd be driving a Macan if I didn't have a fantastic deal through Audi. There is something about it that just feels right when I drive it. But to your point it is not the 49K stripper model but I think the last one I priced out was 91K.
I am saying either the Corvette is junk, it is far from it. It is annoying because even though Corvette is its own group the bean counters run the asylum there. They did a helluva job with the C7 given its cost point. I was surprised to see the wrapped dash and door panels even on a 1LT and that small change that probably costs $90 a car is a giant step forward.
Corvette owners seem obsessed with having a 70K car that competes in its entirety with a 130K car. Performance wise it does, other things, not so much. The leather is not up to par, the body panel fit is day to day depending on the weather. The infotainment system is terrible. Even the trans for the people with auto's is miles behind the competition.
That is why its 1/2 the cost of the competitors.
There is no magic to that.
Chevy and GM continually shoot themselves in the foot with interior quality. The Corvette makes up for it in every other way but Cadillac is a joke interior wise compared to competitors. The CT6 is a step up but so is the price. I think it is wildly overpriced.
I've said this forever. Since I worked at GM and 1 of the other OEM's. The ability to build a world class car, in every aspect is there, the desire to is not.
Last edited by NoOne; 09-08-2018 at 06:04 PM.
#27
Burning Brakes
My wife and I have owned Corvettes (well over a dozen) since 1968. We have a C7 'vert', a Ferrari, an Aston Martin and a S63 AMG (for a back seat car).
Please note that Ferrari INCLUDES 7 years of 'by the book' service with unlimited mileage with every new sale, and has now for several years. Now we can take that 'perceived' issue off the table.
I looked at the ME introduction as an opportunity for the Corvette to move into a different market but if the base model is just an updated $65K Fiero, I believe they will have missed a great opportunity to shed that 'really great value for the money' image.
In my humble opinion, they really need a 'halo' ME that really kicks *** in performance and style without compromise. From there they can gradually trickle down the content, performance and price and capture a new market segment that is looking to be 'associated' with that halo model Corvette.
Please note that Ferrari INCLUDES 7 years of 'by the book' service with unlimited mileage with every new sale, and has now for several years. Now we can take that 'perceived' issue off the table.
I looked at the ME introduction as an opportunity for the Corvette to move into a different market but if the base model is just an updated $65K Fiero, I believe they will have missed a great opportunity to shed that 'really great value for the money' image.
In my humble opinion, they really need a 'halo' ME that really kicks *** in performance and style without compromise. From there they can gradually trickle down the content, performance and price and capture a new market segment that is looking to be 'associated' with that halo model Corvette.
#29
This has been discussed many times. Unless someone has an example (and I'd be shocked) an auto manufacturer has never trashed an existing, iconic, super successful model and replaced it with a halo, technology demonstrator for 5x the cost. Honda is not going to say "You know that Civic Type R? Forget that! Bugatti we are coming for you!!!"
It is already amazing that GM is willing to risk the Corvette brand with the switch ME but there is a lot of history to back up that decision. They aren't going to (and shouldn't) turn the Corvette into a $400K halo car while giving a middle finger to 98% of the people who have been loyal Corvette buyers over the past decades.
I think I am done debating this design though. I'm fully confident from what I've seen and from past performance that the C8 is going to be added to that Corvette poster that is sent out to new buyers and it is going to fit right in. Some people will call the C8 hideous at launch and go buy a McLaren or Ferrari but the majority of people are going to drool over it just like they do the C7. Frankly calling the current design a train wreck is silly and tiresome. The only place it keeps happening is in internet comment echo chambers. Every single reaction I've been able to find from Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc is all "OMG! The mid-engine Corvette is really happening!!!" and not "Ugh, the belt line is 1.4 inches too high. Hideous!"
It is already amazing that GM is willing to risk the Corvette brand with the switch ME but there is a lot of history to back up that decision. They aren't going to (and shouldn't) turn the Corvette into a $400K halo car while giving a middle finger to 98% of the people who have been loyal Corvette buyers over the past decades.
I think I am done debating this design though. I'm fully confident from what I've seen and from past performance that the C8 is going to be added to that Corvette poster that is sent out to new buyers and it is going to fit right in. Some people will call the C8 hideous at launch and go buy a McLaren or Ferrari but the majority of people are going to drool over it just like they do the C7. Frankly calling the current design a train wreck is silly and tiresome. The only place it keeps happening is in internet comment echo chambers. Every single reaction I've been able to find from Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc is all "OMG! The mid-engine Corvette is really happening!!!" and not "Ugh, the belt line is 1.4 inches too high. Hideous!"
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#30
Le Mans Master
#31
Le Mans Master
This has been discussed many times. Unless someone has an example (and I'd be shocked) an auto manufacturer has never trashed an existing, iconic, super successful model and replaced it with a halo, technology demonstrator for 5x the cost. Honda is not going to say "You know that Civic Type R? Forget that! Bugatti we are coming for you!!!"
It is already amazing that GM is willing to risk the Corvette brand with the switch ME but there is a lot of history to back up that decision. They aren't going to (and shouldn't) turn the Corvette into a $400K halo car while giving a middle finger to 98% of the people who have been loyal Corvette buyers over the past decades.
I think I am done debating this design though. I'm fully confident from what I've seen and from past performance that the C8 is going to be added to that Corvette poster that is sent out to new buyers and it is going to fit right in. Some people will call the C8 hideous at launch and go buy a McLaren or Ferrari but the majority of people are going to drool over it just like they do the C7. Frankly calling the current design a train wreck is silly and tiresome. The only place it keeps happening is in internet comment echo chambers. Every single reaction I've been able to find from Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc is all "OMG! The mid-engine Corvette is really happening!!!" and not "Ugh, the belt line is 1.4 inches too high. Hideous!"
It is already amazing that GM is willing to risk the Corvette brand with the switch ME but there is a lot of history to back up that decision. They aren't going to (and shouldn't) turn the Corvette into a $400K halo car while giving a middle finger to 98% of the people who have been loyal Corvette buyers over the past decades.
I think I am done debating this design though. I'm fully confident from what I've seen and from past performance that the C8 is going to be added to that Corvette poster that is sent out to new buyers and it is going to fit right in. Some people will call the C8 hideous at launch and go buy a McLaren or Ferrari but the majority of people are going to drool over it just like they do the C7. Frankly calling the current design a train wreck is silly and tiresome. The only place it keeps happening is in internet comment echo chambers. Every single reaction I've been able to find from Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc is all "OMG! The mid-engine Corvette is really happening!!!" and not "Ugh, the belt line is 1.4 inches too high. Hideous!"
I think most people here think the design is good, just not great. They see it as a lost opportunity for GM.
Last edited by Michael A; 09-08-2018 at 11:50 PM.
#32
I don't think most people here want a high priced halo car. They want a car that costs about the same as the present car. They just wanted the design to look more svelte, less Camaro, more exotic. I don't see how producing a car that is more exotic looking would cost any more to build than one that looks more pedestrian..I would think the dies and materials would cost the same.
I think most people here think the design is good, just not great. They see it as a lost opportunity for GM.
I think most people here think the design is good, just not great. They see it as a lost opportunity for GM.
I'm just tired of people posting things like this:
when they say they want "more exotic". I know you know you can't get a $1.9M look for $70K. But yet the examples being given for what people wished they saw under the C8 camo are Ferrari 488 rear ends, Lambo Aventador hoods, and super sleek McLaren profiles. A lot of those designs are even possible because of things like tubular carbon fiber frames. Or by exotic they mean plucked straight off a race track with no modifications which is never going to sell in the volumes that the Corvette needs to reach.
Anyway, said I should stop debating this, but your response was actually reasonable so you tricked me. I'll end with this. Imagine the C8 as the next row here:
I bet when all is said and done, it's gonna be great. Until then, there's no real benefit to me from debating it any more so ... y'all have fun with that.
#33
makes you wonder how perceptive GM really is.
#34
Team Owner
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I don't think most people here want a high priced halo car. They want a car that costs about the same as the present car. They just wanted the design to look more svelte, less Camaro, more exotic. I don't see how producing a car that is more exotic looking would cost any more to build than one that looks more pedestrian..I would think the dies and materials would cost the same.
I think most people here think the design is good, just not great. They see it as a lost opportunity for GM.
I think most people here think the design is good, just not great. They see it as a lost opportunity for GM.
#35
Burning Brakes
Good points. I think performance wise the Corvette is a bargain and is almost hard to beat when comparing it to other sports cars. Now that they are going mid-engine it reduces that spread even further. Buying the other high-end exotics are about exclusivity, the experience, higher-end leathers, materials & Dealership not just performance. Cars are getting better every day just look at Hyundai/KIA as an example. When it first came out it was a POS Today they are up Honda's A with their only issue being resale, they build a nice product that competes in their car demographic.
The Mclaren 12C price range used is in the 120 range super high miles maybe 110 they have not hit below 100k yet or one would be in my garage. I have owned many exotic cars, the ME Corvette will be my 61 purchase if I can wait that long & yes I am still young not even close to retirement. I purchased a clean manual R8 that only had 15k miles on it. I do my research on all the cars I buy, this is key for anyone buying a high-end car or any product. I Found out the R8 has two major inherited issues: AC compressor and the mag ride shocks go out. These two issues are not cheap to fix, AC fix requires the engine to be pulled mine was 7,200 dollars to fix at an Audi dealer. The mag shocks are around 2k per wheel at a dealer to fix, My cost on parts is 5200 if I do the work myself. My point I knew this was a problem and even though the car went through a clean PPI from Audi those items failed in 18 months of ownership. I purchased a warranty through Audi for 4 years 50k miles at a price of 2k. The fix: I only paid 250 deductible for 16k in total repairs during my 18 months of ownership. The Mclaren 124C was the first true production car for the brand, it has a long list of issues with some owners not having that many problems. You buy any used high-end car you get a trusted warranty unless you like writing checks. Porsche builds incredible products that are very reliable and almost bulletproof that can get up there on price. I get annoyed when people say O stay away from European cars because they are ****, cost so much to repair and they break down all the time. While most saying this have never owned or even driven one of these cars & got their source on the internet since it has made all of us all experts. The statement to stay away from European cars is not true all purchases have a risk as I have owned every major brand multiple times and had few problems and was prepared when they did occur. Even on this forum, you can find a list of people that had issues with engines, paint, AC, overheating problems with their new or pre-owned Corvettes. My new 15/Z06 was fine other than my headliner fell on my head while going to a car meet with only 300 miles on it. I replaced it with leather headliner to match the seats. I never called the dealer as I thought the foam felt cheap compared to other parts of the car. I have a friend who drives his 458 daily and has over 40 thousand miles on the car without any issues other than regular maintenance. His resale will suffer like any higher mileage sports car but he doesn't care.
I always say If it’s mechanical I can promise you it will eventually break regardless of brand & price you paid for it, the goal is to be prepared when it does.
Last edited by Mr Triple Black; 09-09-2018 at 10:07 AM.
#36
Race Director
REPair and maintance on the 12c is ridiculously expensive. THE four grand a year extended warranty offered by mclaren is almost mandatory...
good pricing as i hadnt seen them drop that low. Last time i looked they were in the 120 grand range..
now at 89 its ridiculously inexpensive if you want a garage queen low mileage ownership experience...
corvettes have the gm 300k mile validation process and for the most part maintaince and repairs are dirt cheap..
btw paterson nj is a ghetto and often deals with cars that have been hit pretty hard and repaired...be careful if a deal seems too good to be true..
good pricing as i hadnt seen them drop that low. Last time i looked they were in the 120 grand range..
now at 89 its ridiculously inexpensive if you want a garage queen low mileage ownership experience...
corvettes have the gm 300k mile validation process and for the most part maintaince and repairs are dirt cheap..
btw paterson nj is a ghetto and often deals with cars that have been hit pretty hard and repaired...be careful if a deal seems too good to be true..
Last edited by JerriVette; 09-09-2018 at 11:26 AM.
#37
Burning Brakes
REPair and maintance on the 12c is ridiculously expensive. THE four grand a year extended warranty offered by mclaren is almost mandatory...
good pricing as i hadnt seen them drop that low. Last time i looked they were in the 120 grand range..
now at 89 its ridiculously inexpensive if you want a garage queen low mileage ownership experience...
corvettes have the gm 300k mile validation process and for the most part maintaince and repairs are dirt cheap..
btw paterson nj is a ghetto and often deals with cars that have been hit pretty hard and repaired...be careful if a deal seems too good to be true..
good pricing as i hadnt seen them drop that low. Last time i looked they were in the 120 grand range..
now at 89 its ridiculously inexpensive if you want a garage queen low mileage ownership experience...
corvettes have the gm 300k mile validation process and for the most part maintaince and repairs are dirt cheap..
btw paterson nj is a ghetto and often deals with cars that have been hit pretty hard and repaired...be careful if a deal seems too good to be true..
I don’t want the NJ car just a few too many miles. I want something in the 15-20k range. I was actually told to get a car with at least 15k miles because it was driven enough to know if the car has been having issues or not.
I love my Vette and won’t be getting rid of it. It’s just so good for the ability to drive basically whenever I want and not worry about things breaking, and even if they do I can afford to fix it. I also have an Acura TLX as a true daily and I love that thing for what it is.
Last edited by Mr Triple Black; 09-09-2018 at 11:56 AM.
#38
Drifting
Porsche's quality are more about perception than reality. A $90K 911 is not all that! Sure option the hell out of the interior and you'll have a pretty nice interior. Sit in a $65K Boxster and you'll have a very similar interior as a $30K VW CC. Driving experience is kind of subjective and personal preference and some people love the 911's feel and to some it's just meh! Porsche's are vastly overpriced but their marketing is brilliant and they kind of get away with it! Not defending the Corvette but I get tired of people pissing on its quality compared to other high-line cars. Does GM need to improve the interior quality? Sure, but it's almost right there. I am NOT in the camp of saying "it's a great a car for the money". I think the Corvette is a great car regardless of money and hope GM keeps improving it so it loses that stigma.
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DaveFerrari458 (09-10-2018)
#39
Melting Slicks
......yes what does JD Powers know about Porsche reliability? If they aren’t reliable what does that make the Corvette?
#40
Melting Slicks
If it’s pre-owned and it seems to good to be true it usually is. Market for a 2012 low mile very clean MP4 is 100 to 120. Next time I will be more clear. Missed one at auction last week.
Last edited by fasttoys; 09-09-2018 at 06:34 PM.