A lifeline to those who must have a manual?
#21
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I could write a check for $70k tomorrow without worrying about my account balance. But $4k is still $4k. I'll always be a value shopper, it's just my nature. About $4k is probably what the upcharge for the DCT will be.
To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
#22
The patent has nothing to do with the gear linkage. This is basically just clutch-by-wire. Similar to how they moved to throttle-by-wire back in the early 2000s.
So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.
So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.
So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
#23
Team Owner
#24
I think that this patent isn't targeted specifically for the C8. Rather, I see this more for remote engine start applications (with a manual). This would allow them to upsell customers to a more expensive remote start option even for manual cars (not just the C8, but Camaro, etc.). I'm not saying the C8 will (or won't) get a manual, I just don't think this patent has anything to do with that decision. I, for one, would pay extra to get remote start on my manual car.
Last edited by disasm; 09-26-2018 at 03:18 PM.
#25
Team Owner
#26
For myself, I am more interested in the DCT. But I truly hope GM finds a way to have a manual in the car for those that want it. I understand the draw and thought the same thing for my own sports cars and motorcycles for years. No longer feel that way but get it.
#27
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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Currently I commonly shift from 5th to 3rd when making a casual turn. Also 7th on the interstate to direct drive 4th. Would be nice to continue and no reason all the DCT controls could not be activated with a level and position sensors. There is also an issue on take-off not wanting the clutch to slip excessively. The pedal activated sensor could apply it with human logic better than a computer guess.
All appear to be doable and give the driver satisfaction of a standard shift. After all the airplane I just landed on for tomorrow’s visit to the Rider Cup was all operated by fly by wire. Just like the airplane there is a computer that operates it normally but in an emergency the pilot can control most items. In fact as they do with an airplane, if you try to downshift and the lower gear would be above redline- they could limit that! Now if you mistakenly go from 5th to say 2nd when 4th was intended, once you release the clutch the tires etc can rotate the engine above redline!
Last edited by JerryU; 09-27-2018 at 10:36 AM.
#28
Le Mans Master
I think that this patent isn't targeted specifically for the C8. Rather, I see this more for remote engine start applications (with a manual). This would allow them to upsell customers to a more expensive remote start option even for manual cars (not just the C8, but Camaro, etc.). I'm not saying the C8 will (or won't) get a manual, I just don't think this patent has anything to do with that decision. I, for one, would pay extra to get remote start on my manual car.
#29
Safety Car
I love rowing through gears as much as the next guy, but automatics/manu-matics are the future. Sooner or later you're going to have to come to this realization.
#30
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CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
I could write a check for $70k tomorrow without worrying about my account balance. But $4k is still $4k. I'll always be a value shopper, it's just my nature. About $4k is probably what the upcharge for the DCT will be.
To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
On a MUCH smaller scale, I remember one guy here giving me **** because IMHO Mobil One oil filters are over priced. I buy WIX.
#31
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by ProfessorDeath
I love rowing through gears as much as the next guy, but automatics/manu-matics are the future. Sooner or later you're going to have to come to this realization.
The whole point of a sports car is the fun of driving it. Autos are boring with or without paddles.
I understand why a road course track guy would want one. But for my street car, never!
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1Turbo (10-15-2018)
#32
I am trying to be open minded about a DCT. Like really trying, because I know they are faster, but there is something about that mechanical linkage and the driving experience that is hard to let go of. Watching videos of Lambos and Ferraris with DCT's is different. These are lower displacement OHC engines that rev really ******* fast. GM is likely to stick with OHV, which im good with, but I dont think a DCT will be nearly as exciting with the price point of a Corvette when compared to the fore mentioned. Plus, GM ******* blows at making transmissions so my hopes are low.
#33
Yes, the experience of going through the gears and accelerating after each gear is really something fun and exhilarating that can't be duplicated with an auto transmission.
#34
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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More likley as that is a GM benifit! They need gas saving technology to meet corporate mpg goals.
Propely integrated Start/Stop works great. In our BMW X5 SUV you don’t even know it’s working. Foot off the brake and can’t hear the starter. Some companies are shutting the car off just after an ignition cycle so the combustion pressure in that cylinder is what is mostly used to turn the engine. It also uses a form on braking energy recovery by only using the alternator when coasting or braking. The Vette already has electric steering just need to add an electric water pump.
Propely integrated Start/Stop works great. In our BMW X5 SUV you don’t even know it’s working. Foot off the brake and can’t hear the starter. Some companies are shutting the car off just after an ignition cycle so the combustion pressure in that cylinder is what is mostly used to turn the engine. It also uses a form on braking energy recovery by only using the alternator when coasting or braking. The Vette already has electric steering just need to add an electric water pump.
#35
Safety Car
More fun? The argument could be made.
Better Performance? Not since the late 90’s.
edit: I’m 100% confident you’ve not tried a newer auto/dct/manu-magic. They’re just as exhilarating as a manual... unless you never actually push your car. If you’re a cruiser? Pick your poison.
Last edited by ProfessorDeath; 10-02-2018 at 02:07 AM.
#37
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ike the A8. If they added a simple shift by wire manual activation lever could keep the fun in driving and skipping gears when desired etc. We’ll see it GM incorporates that feature in the Tremic DC Transaxle.
Last edited by JerryU; 10-02-2018 at 02:29 AM.
#38
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by ProfessorDeath
Sure. No doubt. Unless you actually race and/or care about performance figures. Manuals are slower. By a wide margin.
More fun? The argument could be made.
Better Performance? Not since the late 90’s.
edit: I’m 100% confident you’ve not tried a newer auto/dct/manu-magic. They’re just as exhilarating as a manual... unless you never actually push your car. If you’re a cruiser? Pick your poison.
More fun? The argument could be made.
Better Performance? Not since the late 90’s.
edit: I’m 100% confident you’ve not tried a newer auto/dct/manu-magic. They’re just as exhilarating as a manual... unless you never actually push your car. If you’re a cruiser? Pick your poison.
#39
Drifting
Manuals are really fun to drive (I have a '02 Z06 so I should know) but I think a true DCT would be just as much fun especially due to the speed of the shifts. The previous gen A6 and current A8 just can't provide that same visceral experience IMO. I've driven C6 and C7 with the autos and tried using the paddle shifters in those but to be honest, they were just useless. There was way too much lag time in the shifts. It wasn't an enjoyable driving experience when either upshifting and downshifting. So when I drove them I just left it in "D" and cruised around. I did ride in a friend's Porsche 911 with the PDK transmission and when he upshifted/downshifted it (via the paddles), it sure left an impression on me! I'm looking forward to GM finally taking the next step in the evolution of refining the Corvette and bringing it in line with the best sports cars in the world.
So I think with a true DCT, the experience will be just as engaging as a manual. Again JMO ... YMMV!
So I think with a true DCT, the experience will be just as engaging as a manual. Again JMO ... YMMV!
#40
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