If the C8 debuts at the NAIAS Show...The Supra could be in trouble
11-02-2018, 01:33 PM
#41
Drifting
If the Supra has a little back seat, a manual trans, and weighs 2900#, I'd likely choose it over a C8 personally.
When you have a small child, don't underestimate the value of a small back seat. As it is now the wife and I never take the Corvette when we go out because the kid always has to be dropped off and picked up at the babysitters on the way to and from. So the truck gets taken and the Vette just sits.
I'm really drawn to the Lotus Evora for the above traits.
When you have a small child, don't underestimate the value of a small back seat. As it is now the wife and I never take the Corvette when we go out because the kid always has to be dropped off and picked up at the babysitters on the way to and from. So the truck gets taken and the Vette just sits.
I'm really drawn to the Lotus Evora for the above traits.
11-03-2018, 12:37 AM
#43
Drifting
You do know that Ford owned Aston for years, right?
You do know the previous Aston V12 was 2 Ford V6's joined together, right?
The DB11 does NOT share chassis/suspension/brakes/etc with AMG. It shares the ENGINE and some interior bits.
BTW, the DB11 still has a V12, it's 5.2L instead of the old 6L (the 2 Ford V6's mated together) and it's twin turbocharged. The DB11 Volante (convertible) has the M-B V8 in it.
You do know the previous Aston V12 was 2 Ford V6's joined together, right?
The DB11 does NOT share chassis/suspension/brakes/etc with AMG. It shares the ENGINE and some interior bits.
BTW, the DB11 still has a V12, it's 5.2L instead of the old 6L (the 2 Ford V6's mated together) and it's twin turbocharged. The DB11 Volante (convertible) has the M-B V8 in it.
yeah, the v12 was two Ford V6’s? So what? the BRM V16 is two V8 blocks put together. again non sequitur for the point of whether Aston is now getting AMG/Daimler’s sloppy seconds.
So, maybe relevant, the V12 still exists in a legacy model. But it blows...Literally...Their first Aston turbocharged V12. Sounds great but obviously didn’t cut it. Months later the AMG engine started appearing in both the Volante and the Vantage. Because they should stick to just hand sewing leather.
Daimler took the stake in 2013 and, what a coincidence, all this stuff from Mercedes AMG started appearing. Sorry you own Aston stock or have weird V12 obsession. The leather is still nice. the company is not very good as a stand-alone company as apparently it can’t evolve its own cars.
Last edited by Parcival; 11-03-2018 at 01:08 AM.
11-03-2018, 01:38 AM
#44
The Supra is going to be a major competitor to the Corvette if it's in the $60K price range. Face it, vettes are almost exclusively an old guys car. The kids of today aren't interested in them and Toyota is fully capable of building a Corvette killer if they went after it.
People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.
Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.
I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.
Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.
I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
11-03-2018, 02:31 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
Supra is being made to match Cayman and Cayman S performance for less $$ - especially once you option out the Porsche. We will see how it does but its good to have another option since the new C8 is going to be $150k, kidding...
Toyota knows what they are doing with the 4 Runner. An old platform and power train but selling near or over 100,000 units a year. Pretty unbelievable its success over the past few years.
Toyota knows what they are doing with the 4 Runner. An old platform and power train but selling near or over 100,000 units a year. Pretty unbelievable its success over the past few years.
I hate SUVs but the 2016 4Runner I own is a base model, two wheel drive, rear wheel drive SR5. I almost got stuck in the mud and felt the rear end sinking. But, the darn truck managed to get me out in one piece.....no four wheel drive was needed.
11-03-2018, 11:20 AM
#46
Drifting
I highly doubt GM is losing sleep over a Supra. And yes its' not all about raw power, it's also about looks, cachet, class, prestige, heritage, etc and the Corvette is in a higher class than a Supra. And yes Corvette's tend to have older buyers because for one reason most people in their 20's cannot afford a $60-140K car. Same can be said about a Porsche. But I must tell you, I am seeing a lot more younger people (late 20's-mid 30's) driving C7's.
I don’t begrudge any younger owner or midlife crisis their turn on the Supras, Mustangs, Camaros, WRX/BRZ, 370Z— enjoy. I ask the 20somethings who manage to get into C7 to not drive like Aholes
Last edited by Parcival; 11-03-2018 at 11:25 AM.
11-03-2018, 04:57 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
The Supra is going to be a major competitor to the Corvette if it's in the $60K price range. Face it, vettes are almost exclusively an old guys car. The kids of today aren't interested in them and Toyota is fully capable of building a Corvette killer if they went after it.
People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.
Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.
I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.
Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.
I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
And I don’t know any 4 cylinder cars wiping the floor with Vettes, especially anything past the base model.
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ArmchairArchitect (11-04-2018)
11-04-2018, 09:04 AM
#48
Le Mans Master
The problem with the Evora is Lotus is NOT building dealer stock now, for a dealer to ORDER an Evora, it MUST be a SOLD order. If you want to buy a NEW Evora, you pre-order it and pick it up at the dealer when it come in.
And remember:
L=LOTS
O=OF
T=TROUBLE
U=USUALLY
S=SERIOUS
And remember:
L=LOTS
O=OF
T=TROUBLE
U=USUALLY
S=SERIOUS
Hopefully the recent buyout will provide improved QC, pricing, and dealer experience.
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ArmchairArchitect (11-04-2018)
11-04-2018, 06:21 PM
#49
Already in trouble with an inline 6 and 60,000
11-05-2018, 12:08 PM
#50
Race Director
Agree with you completely. Just too many negatives associated with the overall Lotus experience at this time. However from a product standpoint, the Evora offers the most appealing product to me personally by a large margin. An Evora GT430 Sport with a manual and the 2+2 option is a dream car for me personally. But I don't have the sort of spare capital to make such a poor financial decision.
Hopefully the recent buyout will provide improved QC, pricing, and dealer experience.
Hopefully the recent buyout will provide improved QC, pricing, and dealer experience.
11-05-2018, 12:20 PM
#51
Race Director
Yeah, Ford is a company. Maybe you are implying they still design the car. They sold their Aston Martin stake in 2007 to a private consortium. That’s more than a decade ago. The Porsche factory literally used to be run by *****. Non sequitur.
yeah, the v12 was two Ford V6’s? So what? the BRM V16 is two V8 blocks put together. again non sequitur for the point of whether Aston is now getting AMG/Daimler’s sloppy seconds.
So, maybe relevant, the V12 still exists in a legacy model. But it blows...Literally...Their first Aston turbocharged V12. Sounds great but obviously didn’t cut it. Months later the AMG engine started appearing in both the Volante and the Vantage. Because they should stick to just hand sewing leather.
Daimler took the stake in 2013 and, what a coincidence, all this stuff from Mercedes AMG started appearing. Sorry you own Aston stock or have weird V12 obsession. The leather is still nice. the company is not very good as a stand-alone company as apparently it can’t evolve its own cars.
The standard engine in the Vantage has always been a V8, previous gen Vantage V8 was based on the Jaguar "AJ" series V8's, but with dry sump lubrication. The M-B V8 is standard now in all the lineup. The 5.2L V12 is an option in the DB11 coupe and by all reviews, is a terrific engine.
Not quite sure why you have such a hard on for Aston Martin, or me. I don't have a V12 obsession or an Aston Martin obsession. I do enjoy getting facts STRAIGHT. You should try it.
Last edited by jimmyb; 11-05-2018 at 01:14 PM.
11-06-2018, 07:46 PM
#54
Race Director
The Supra looks EXACTLY like what it is....a Z4 with different front/rear clips. In silhouette, you won't be able to tell them apart.
11-07-2018, 07:12 AM
#55
Drifting
There'll be a little competition between it and the C8, but they're sports cars of considerably different character so it shouldn't be much of a problem for GM (or Toyota). I hope both do well in the market.
11-07-2018, 09:21 AM
#56
Drifting
Just like Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lotus, Jaguar, Land Rover, etc....
The standard engine in the Vantage has always been a V8, previous gen Vantage V8 was based on the Jaguar "AJ" series V8's, but with dry sump lubrication. The M-B V8 is standard now in all the lineup. The 5.2L V12 is an option in the DB11 coupe and by all reviews, is a terrific engine.
Not quite sure why you have such a hard on for Aston Martin, or me. I don't have a V12 obsession or an Aston Martin obsession. I do enjoy getting facts STRAIGHT. You should try it.
The standard engine in the Vantage has always been a V8, previous gen Vantage V8 was based on the Jaguar "AJ" series V8's, but with dry sump lubrication. The M-B V8 is standard now in all the lineup. The 5.2L V12 is an option in the DB11 coupe and by all reviews, is a terrific engine.
Not quite sure why you have such a hard on for Aston Martin, or me. I don't have a V12 obsession or an Aston Martin obsession. I do enjoy getting facts STRAIGHT. You should try it.
If u like facts, why didn’t you know abt the Daimler deal... if u did read the press release, U should have understood why they gave up 5% of the company and then try to sell themselves. Those other brands u list didn’t sign a deal for 1/20th of their ENTIRE brands in enchange for a long list of core technologies. It wasn’t just abt the engine as explicitly stated.
Let me interpret for you. Aston has Little capabilities beyond the exterior design, leather upholstery, and a few garage mechanics: no engine, suspension, electronics upgrades of its own. Why the car brands u mentioned all exist within larger car manufacturers for operating synergies (VW, BMW, Geely, Tata, Tata, respectively). Aston is owned by a syndicate of investment groups or individuals (several of us educated u earlier in this fact), but they do not have manufacturing synergies. That’s why it “codeveloped” with Mercedes/ Daimler. That was the topic u and I were debating, remember? We were not debating the engines per se, u just made it that way to cover up. Or did a hard on make you forget.
Your Marketing for Aston is fine but requires thinking beyond the garage and more like the Boardroom.
the BMW inline turbo tech is over a decade old ... n54 then n55 now this...You can drive a 2006 bmw... don’t need to wait for the Supra...
Last edited by Parcival; 11-07-2018 at 10:43 AM.
11-07-2018, 12:06 PM
#57
Race Director
“Hard on” is one of those things people say to try to sound cool, right? Aston cars are cool. I just don’t agree with you on the business assessment.
If u like facts, why didn’t you know abt the Daimler deal... if u did read the press release, U should have understood why they gave up 5% of the company and then try to sell themselves. Those other brands u list didn’t sign a deal for 1/20th of their ENTIRE brands in enchange for a long list of core technologies. It wasn’t just abt the engine as explicitly stated.
Let me interpret for you. Aston has Little capabilities beyond the exterior design, leather upholstery, and a few garage mechanics: no engine, suspension, electronics upgrades of its own. Why the car brands u mentioned all exist within larger car manufacturers for operating synergies (VW, BMW, Geely, Tata, Tata, respectively). Aston is owned by a syndicate of investment groups or individuals (several of us educated u earlier in this fact), but they do not have manufacturing synergies. That’s why it “codeveloped” with Mercedes/ Daimler. That was the topic u and I were debating, remember? We were not debating the engines per se, u just made it that way to cover up. Or did a hard on make you forget.
Your Marketing for Aston is fine but requires thinking beyond the garage and more like the Boardroom.
the BMW inline turbo tech is over a decade old ... n54 then n55 now this...You can drive a 2006 bmw... don’t need to wait for the Supra...
How many current cars have Mag ride shocks, which appeared FIRST on the Caddy XLR/2003 Corvette? That was GM technology that was then licensed to other makers. Should we say that every car with mag ride shocks have Corvette suspension?
Last edited by jimmyb; 11-07-2018 at 12:08 PM.
11-07-2018, 12:23 PM
#58
Drifting
The point is that the DB11 and new Vantage share engines and some interior doo-dads with M-B. The chassis/suspension/body/etc is 100% Aston Martin, it shares nothing (beyond what I mentioned) with any current M-B car. Now, did M-B help with the CASH to develop the DB11/Vantage? I'm sure they did but your assessment of A-M being capable of nice leather and little more is foolish. Those are FACTS.
How many current cars have Mag ride shocks, which appeared FIRST on the Caddy XLR/2003 Corvette? That was GM technology that was then licensed to other makers. Should we say that every car with mag ride shocks have Corvette suspension?
How many current cars have Mag ride shocks, which appeared FIRST on the Caddy XLR/2003 Corvette? That was GM technology that was then licensed to other makers. Should we say that every car with mag ride shocks have Corvette suspension?
You're saying unless Daimler gave them cash to develop the DB11 it's not codevelopment? Should i ask if you even know what equity is? Child please. Aston just got MB's engine, suspension, electronics, and infotainment because MB just bent Aston over prison style for 5% of the company and a Board observer seat for zero cash because Aston needs MB, MB doesn't need Aston. The more you continue trying to market for Aston the worse it sounds!
Or tell you what. You're an engineer level guy, I get it. Let's just agree to disagree because you just showed you don't know what a corporate codev deal looks like EVEN if I paste Aston's own press release here. That's more fact.
https://www.astonmartin.com/en/live/...hip-agreements
Last edited by Parcival; 11-07-2018 at 12:50 PM.
11-07-2018, 01:22 PM
#59
Drifting
You know the LT1's tech is many decades old. Have you ever thought about driving a C4 instead of waiting for the C8 with its updated LT1?
11-07-2018, 01:43 PM
#60
Drifting
Yes, BMW have been making 3.0T I6 engines for a while now and they excell at it. If I were to buy a Supra then I'd rather have the BMW engine than a Toyota engine.
You know the LT1's tech is many decades old. Have you ever thought about driving a C4 instead of waiting for the C8 with its updated LT1?
You know the LT1's tech is many decades old. Have you ever thought about driving a C4 instead of waiting for the C8 with its updated LT1?
Just buy a Bimmer Z instead of a Supra, they’re both FE, RWD, lol.
Last edited by Parcival; 11-07-2018 at 01:44 PM.