$169,900, final price confirmed
11-15-2018, 09:32 PM
#921
Racer
The old story of Ferrari and Lamborghini being maintenance nightmare is really a thing of the past at least from my experience with having owned both.
Last edited by tcweidner; 11-15-2018 at 09:32 PM.
11-15-2018, 09:33 PM
#922
Race Director
The only way that they can get the sales needed at that price is to go full on international which would mean out selling a Porsche in all their markets including Germany. To get those sales they will need to prove the car, maybe back to back to back wins at La Mans, but that will take several years to achieve. That also means giving up two thirds of their own domestic market for a great GT car. I just don’t see GM doing that.
11-15-2018, 09:41 PM
#924
Melting Slicks
The only way that they can get the sales needed at that price is to go full on international which would mean out selling a Porsche in all their markets including Germany. To get those sales they will need to prove the car, maybe back to back to back wins at La Mans, but that will take several years to achieve. That also means giving up two thirds of their own domestic market for a great GT car. I just don’t see GM doing that.
The domestic market will be supplied with the Stingray which will be a traditional value sports car.
11-15-2018, 09:50 PM
#925
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
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To use the A10 trans in the C7 they'd have to do the tooling for a new transmission case (as current A10 is single piece case, bolted directly to the engine, and this application would require 2-piece case), plus bellhousing and tailshaft housing and tailshaft. Certainly doable, but rather than throwing $$ at doing that, they'd likely just skip that and go DCT across the board for the auto.
To use in the ME, it would require even more work. They'll go either TC auto or DCT; I don't see them doing both.
To use in the ME, it would require even more work. They'll go either TC auto or DCT; I don't see them doing both.
Last edited by OnPoint; 11-15-2018 at 09:59 PM.
11-15-2018, 09:50 PM
#926
Race Director
If if they want a halo car, just go for it, maybe call it a Buick and charge a half million for it, kind of like a Ford GT. But if they do then I won’t want one and could not care less about one, kind of like the Ford GT. If the C8 is to be an extension of the C7, then this whole section needs to be moved another forum for halo cars.
Guess we we need to identify if we are talking about a “Halo Car” or the C8 Corvette. I vote for the C8.
11-15-2018, 09:59 PM
#927
Melting Slicks
To use the A10 trans they'd have to do the tooling for a new transmission case (as current A10 is single piece case, bolted directly to the engine, and this application would require 2-piece case), plus bellhousing and tailshaft housing and tailshaft. Certainly doable, but rather than throwing $$ at doing that, they'd likely just skip that and go DCT across the board for the auto.
11-15-2018, 10:04 PM
#928
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,252
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What Ford's DCT retails for is inapposite.
11-15-2018, 10:14 PM
#930
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
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Believe whatever you want.
11-16-2018, 12:02 AM
#931
11-16-2018, 12:34 AM
#932
Melting Slicks
just...stop... A little thought before spewing would benefit you greatly, and anyone unfortunate enough to read your spew:
.
https://www.torquenews.com/106/why-camaro-and-corvette-dont-share-every-transmission
.
“This physical difference between the driveline layout of the Camaro and the Corvette is the clearest reason why GM can’t just stick the 7-speed manual from the Corvette in the Camaro or the 10-speed from the ZL1 in the Corvette. This also likely plays a role in explaining why the 2019 Corvette ZR1 has the 8-speed automatic rather than the new 10-speed automatic from the ZL1“
.
https://www.torquenews.com/106/why-camaro-and-corvette-dont-share-every-transmission
.
“This physical difference between the driveline layout of the Camaro and the Corvette is the clearest reason why GM can’t just stick the 7-speed manual from the Corvette in the Camaro or the 10-speed from the ZL1 in the Corvette. This also likely plays a role in explaining why the 2019 Corvette ZR1 has the 8-speed automatic rather than the new 10-speed automatic from the ZL1“
11-16-2018, 06:05 AM
#933
Melting Slicks
I wonder how many truly have owned a car on this forum starting or north of 169k MSRP? I have owned a total of 59 cars with only a hand full that went north of that price. How many cars in GM line up today have a price tag starting at 169k? What are the expectations of most buyers when a car starts at 169k ( Panel gaps, paint, Build quality, dealership and service, prestigious name, exclusively, quality of materials and components the list goes on) Could GM sell a very low number of cars at this price point sure the hard core fans and a few curious buyers with the money, but beyond that I still say it is going to be very difficult. I belong to many other exotic car forums and their is no threads I can find about the new ME Corvette. If you ask many of them they don't care outside the walls of corvette forums, journalists or auto magazines and some YouTubers. I know I mentioned hand built multiple times and it dosen't always mean better built but it does allows the builder to take more time to help control quality. Unfortunately this is a more difficult task on a faster assembly built products. This could explain GM spending a lot of money updating the BG plant. We know many die-hard Corvette fans that will wait for the bugs to be worked out before they spend their hard earned money. The same caution will be elevated for buyers not familiar with owning the brand especially if it's starts at 169k. Anyway, if GM decides to sell their ME versions north of 169k, they will need to address many of these issues to sustain enough sales with the amount of buyers who are ***** to spend 169k + on a car they have never built before. I have been on the wait list since January of 2015 I am in regardless of price and will buy it as long as it checks all the boxes.
Last edited by fasttoys; 11-16-2018 at 08:13 AM.
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Zaro Tundov (11-16-2018)
11-16-2018, 06:59 AM
#934
Race Director
My main point was they'll do either a TC auto or a DCT, but I don't see them doing both, as they don't have a current TC auto to use in the application, and would have to engineer it. With the CAD drawings we've seen, it certainly looks like DCT got the nod.
What Ford's DCT retails for is inapposite.
What Ford's DCT retails for is inapposite.
vw gti
audi tt
bmw m3 and m4
alfa 4c
audi s3 and S4
mitsubushi evo
porsche boxster and cayman as well as 911
i think the logic that suggests the dct box for a corvette would cost 32 grand to push the price of the c8 to 169 grand is flawed.
what manufacturer would take a resonably priced base midel with 65 years of sales success and ignore its history .
i believe we could see a price increase of the runored five grand over comparably priced c7...
60 odd grand to 170 grand is more reasonable expectation...than a sole 170 grand model...
fwiw the nsx took a huge dump in the markeplace as it resurfaced at 150 to 200 grand pricepoint.
unit sales are a disaster and 40 grand discounts are not unheard of.
unit sales are under 1000 for the first year and second year i believe went around 1500 units.
audis R8 is not selling either and no future generation is planned at this time.
the mcclaren 570 seems to be doing well but even those are available with nice discounts if you listen at cars and coffee..
i dig the 570 but i prefer corvette maintaince and ourchase costs.
these are still just cars...under 100 is prefered by most normal people...
11-16-2018, 07:11 AM
#935
Race Director
My 15 458 goes in one time per year and the maintenance is covered under warranty until 2022.
The only thing I have had to pay out of pocket was new set of Pirelli Pzero at 5k miles.
So not sure what maintenance concern on late model Ferrari you are referring too?
My 16 Callaway SC757 has had more warranty issue than my 458 by far. Granted all covered under warrant except a new set of Michelin tires at 6k on the Odometer.
But the Rear diff replace at 107 miles. The Hand built LT4 at 700 miles.
This took one month as I demanded that it get the engine build by the same tech at the PBC so that the car was as original as possible.
I come to find out that the builder of my original and replacement which was shipped with everything attached was build by the team.leader of the PBC.
Just goes to show anything mechanical can break.
Buthe I give GM good grades as they did as I requested and sent the entire new motor with the builder name as the same as original when they replace motor at 700m
I had a 14 z51 not one problem and a 15 Z06 same deal not one problem and then the 16 Callaway all the issue in 1st 700 miles .
Good new since then over the next 7000 miles other than a faulty break wear sensor it's been trouble free.
So I don't think GM has any better reliability than you will find in a late model Ferrari.
The old story of Ferrari and Lamborghini being maintenance nightmare is really a thing of the past at least from my experience with having owned both.
The only thing I have had to pay out of pocket was new set of Pirelli Pzero at 5k miles.
So not sure what maintenance concern on late model Ferrari you are referring too?
My 16 Callaway SC757 has had more warranty issue than my 458 by far. Granted all covered under warrant except a new set of Michelin tires at 6k on the Odometer.
But the Rear diff replace at 107 miles. The Hand built LT4 at 700 miles.
This took one month as I demanded that it get the engine build by the same tech at the PBC so that the car was as original as possible.
I come to find out that the builder of my original and replacement which was shipped with everything attached was build by the team.leader of the PBC.
Just goes to show anything mechanical can break.
Buthe I give GM good grades as they did as I requested and sent the entire new motor with the builder name as the same as original when they replace motor at 700m
I had a 14 z51 not one problem and a 15 Z06 same deal not one problem and then the 16 Callaway all the issue in 1st 700 miles .
Good new since then over the next 7000 miles other than a faulty break wear sensor it's been trouble free.
So I don't think GM has any better reliability than you will find in a late model Ferrari.
The old story of Ferrari and Lamborghini being maintenance nightmare is really a thing of the past at least from my experience with having owned both.
your assumption of ferraris being more durable than a stock corvette would respectfully be invalid.
cool car collection glad your ferrari seem to be reliable as its a pretty car.
i look forward to many or any ferrari owners insights when and if they take delivery of the various c8 models as they become available.
ferrari owners in general show concern for putting too many miles on their prancing horses for many reasons including potiential increases in depreciation. Id imagine having a much less costly corvette to actually use more often could be a nice feature since the loss in value would be minimal in comparision.
i daily my sports cars so i look forward to care free ownership experiences.
A lession ive learned over the 4 decades of sports car ownership is Modding (even with much respected tuners ) can and often does unfortunately take its toll in reliability.
Last edited by JerriVette; 11-16-2018 at 07:14 AM.
11-16-2018, 07:23 AM
#936
Melting Slicks
I wonder how many truly have owned a car on this forum starting or north of 169k MSRP? I have owned a total of 59 cars with only a hand full that went north of this price. How many cars in GM line up today have a price tag starting at 169k? What are the expectations of most buyers when a car starts at 169k ( Panel gaps, paint, Build quality, dealership and service, prestigious name, exclusively, quality of materials and components the list goes on) Could GM sell a very low number of cars at this price point sure the hard core fans and a few curious buyers with the money, but beyond that I still say it is going to be very difficult. I belong to many other exotic car forums and their is no threads I can find about the new ME Corvette. If you ask many of them they don't care outside the walls of corvette forums, journalists or auto magazines and some YouTubers. I know I mentioned hand built multiple times and it dosen't always mean better built but it does allows the builder to take more time to help control quality. Unfortunately this is a more difficult task on a faster assembly built products. This could explain GM spending a lot of money updating the BG plant. We know many die-hard Corvette fans that will wait for the bugs to be worked out before they spend their hard earned money. The same caution will be elevated for buyers not familiar with owning the brand especially if it's starts at 169k. Anyway, if GM decides to sell their ME versions north of 169k, they will need to address many of these issues to sustain enough sales with the amount of buyers who are ***** to spend 169k + on a car they have never built before. I have been on the wait list since January of 2015 I am in regardless of price and will buy it as long as it checks all the boxes.
The only people that care about this imaginary "respect" also only care about performance figures they can brag to their other friends about on paper because if they actually used that performance anywhere other than showing up to the local car meets they would know that the Corvette has already become "world class" without having to alienate and marginalize the typical buyers that have held the Corvette in already high high esteem.
Logic does not apply to this mindset, this is a clearly emotional mindset, where no matter how many holes you punch into their theory, it can't be wrong because they personally feel the need for this to be a certain way. These people feel the need to be special and for the things they lile to also be special...even if they will never be able to have those things. They hate the words "performance bargain" or "affordable" because they have been conditioned to believe that those descriptors have negative connotations.
The other firmly held belief is that GM needs a halo car...by their definition, a car that can only be afforded by the few to showcase the capabilities of GM's engineering and design...price and profitability be damned. The problem here is that the Corvette already does this but remains semi affordable...which runs contrary to their belief structure. The change to mid engine layout gives these people a firm place to pin their personal need to see what their hearts tell them is necessary because it is a drastic shift for GM.
Even with all of the evidence to the contrary, these folks cannot see logic because they cannot remain objective. We can post fact after fact about GM's past business model, its current business model, the success of the Corvette platform as is, and the lack of any meaningful impact from "halo" cars that are clearly unobtainable and any number of other truths that influence our outlook on the upcoming car, but in the end we are speculating and that fact is enough to allow people like PCMIII to stick to their theories and due to their emotional attachment to them get super defensive when people won't accept their ideas.
In this thread I have learned who just can't be reasoned with so I don't try. I expect that this post will get a "sad-mad" response from certain individuals and that is just how it is. I continue to try to get these people to understand the "reasonable person test" for things said about something we don't know much about ourselves...but I think anyone this hard coded in their belief is lost to this mindset.
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11-16-2018, 08:03 AM
#937
Drifting
There's even speculation that the real reason for a move to a mid-engine Corvette is that GM needs to move to DOHC turbo V8s to meet fuel efficiency requirements. This is based on the notion that part of a Corvette's identity is its low hood.
11-16-2018, 08:12 AM
#938
Melting Slicks
We've said this over and over (and over) in this thread and many others, the problem is that PCMIII and others of his mindset fully believe that a company like GM feels the need to "prove" itself. Every new generation Corvette has had these people shouting from the rooftops that GM "has to build a full on exotic to be taken seriously" as it is a reflection of their warped perception of what a super car is.
The only people that care about this imaginary "respect" also only care about performance figures they can brag to their other friends about on paper because if they actually used that performance anywhere other than showing up to the local car meets they would know that the Corvette has already become "world class" without having to alienate and marginalize the typical buyers that have held the Corvette in already high high esteem.
Logic does not apply to this mindset, this is a clearly emotional mindset, where no matter how many holes you punch into their theory, it can't be wrong because they personally feel the need for this to be a certain way. These people feel the need to be special and for the things they lile to also be special...even if they will never be able to have those things. They hate the words "performance bargain" or "affordable" because they have been conditioned to believe that those descriptors have negative connotations.
The other firmly held belief is that GM needs a halo car...by their definition, a car that can only be afforded by the few to showcase the capabilities of GM's engineering and design...price and profitability be damned. The problem here is that the Corvette already does this but remains semi affordable...which runs contrary to their belief structure. The change to mid engine layout gives these people a firm place to pin their personal need to see what their hearts tell them is necessary because it is a drastic shift for GM.
Even with all of the evidence to the contrary, these folks cannot see logic because they cannot remain objective. We can post fact after fact about GM's past business model, its current business model, the success of the Corvette platform as is, and the lack of any meaningful impact from "halo" cars that are clearly unobtainable and any number of other truths that influence our outlook on the upcoming car, but in the end we are speculating and that fact is enough to allow people like PCMIII to stick to their theories and due to their emotional attachment to them get super defensive when people won't accept their ideas.
In this thread I have learned who just can't be reasoned with so I don't try. I expect that this post will get a "sad-mad" response from certain individuals and that is just how it is. I continue to try to get these people to understand the "reasonable person test" for things said about something we don't know much about ourselves...but I think anyone this hard coded in their belief is lost to this mindset.
The only people that care about this imaginary "respect" also only care about performance figures they can brag to their other friends about on paper because if they actually used that performance anywhere other than showing up to the local car meets they would know that the Corvette has already become "world class" without having to alienate and marginalize the typical buyers that have held the Corvette in already high high esteem.
Logic does not apply to this mindset, this is a clearly emotional mindset, where no matter how many holes you punch into their theory, it can't be wrong because they personally feel the need for this to be a certain way. These people feel the need to be special and for the things they lile to also be special...even if they will never be able to have those things. They hate the words "performance bargain" or "affordable" because they have been conditioned to believe that those descriptors have negative connotations.
The other firmly held belief is that GM needs a halo car...by their definition, a car that can only be afforded by the few to showcase the capabilities of GM's engineering and design...price and profitability be damned. The problem here is that the Corvette already does this but remains semi affordable...which runs contrary to their belief structure. The change to mid engine layout gives these people a firm place to pin their personal need to see what their hearts tell them is necessary because it is a drastic shift for GM.
Even with all of the evidence to the contrary, these folks cannot see logic because they cannot remain objective. We can post fact after fact about GM's past business model, its current business model, the success of the Corvette platform as is, and the lack of any meaningful impact from "halo" cars that are clearly unobtainable and any number of other truths that influence our outlook on the upcoming car, but in the end we are speculating and that fact is enough to allow people like PCMIII to stick to their theories and due to their emotional attachment to them get super defensive when people won't accept their ideas.
In this thread I have learned who just can't be reasoned with so I don't try. I expect that this post will get a "sad-mad" response from certain individuals and that is just how it is. I continue to try to get these people to understand the "reasonable person test" for things said about something we don't know much about ourselves...but I think anyone this hard coded in their belief is lost to this mindset.
11-16-2018, 08:57 AM
#939
Race Director
Fwiw most corvette owners could easily afford a 169 k dollar car if their value system motivated them to.
in todays environment its easy to do....
that said an individuals value system sets aside what any four wheeled transportation should cost.
thats a marketing subgroup that in the past bought corvettes such as the c7 and earlier generations.
corvette marketing teams will most probably cater to their audience as that has been a successful 65year tradition and oath.
yes the price will go up a little bit and the top end models can reach up higher to say 170 grand...
to ignore the fact that most executives would not abandon their existing customer is fool hearty...
in the recent past the failures of the industry are when executives ignore that fact...ignore their existing customer base.
i dont see chevrolet doing that...
i think we will find out for sure this coming january as the c8 releases.
i look at the spy photos and see a rear mid engine corvette that is not literally in the supercar arena but rather one that just llays one on tv...(or more accurately performs like one on a race track)
im sure the desires of all those who want to soend 170 grand will have the opportunity.
i look forward to all those so vocal about this only being 170 grand procepoint will at that time...pony up the cash they claim they would spend...
im never spending 170 grand on any car.
it insults my value system to think that its neccessary...to enjoy life..
just so you can have a good laugh..i remember back to being a you g teenager driving with my girlfriend at the time saying when gas goes to a dollar ill give up driving too..
59days and counting so its fun to shoot the breeze even if we disagree...
in todays environment its easy to do....
that said an individuals value system sets aside what any four wheeled transportation should cost.
thats a marketing subgroup that in the past bought corvettes such as the c7 and earlier generations.
corvette marketing teams will most probably cater to their audience as that has been a successful 65year tradition and oath.
yes the price will go up a little bit and the top end models can reach up higher to say 170 grand...
to ignore the fact that most executives would not abandon their existing customer is fool hearty...
in the recent past the failures of the industry are when executives ignore that fact...ignore their existing customer base.
i dont see chevrolet doing that...
i think we will find out for sure this coming january as the c8 releases.
i look at the spy photos and see a rear mid engine corvette that is not literally in the supercar arena but rather one that just llays one on tv...(or more accurately performs like one on a race track)
im sure the desires of all those who want to soend 170 grand will have the opportunity.
i look forward to all those so vocal about this only being 170 grand procepoint will at that time...pony up the cash they claim they would spend...
im never spending 170 grand on any car.
it insults my value system to think that its neccessary...to enjoy life..
just so you can have a good laugh..i remember back to being a you g teenager driving with my girlfriend at the time saying when gas goes to a dollar ill give up driving too..
59days and counting so its fun to shoot the breeze even if we disagree...
11-16-2018, 09:11 AM
#940
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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Received 9,624 Likes
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... Could GM sell a very low number of cars at this price point sure the hard core fans and a few curious buyers with the money, but beyond that I still say it is going to be very difficult. ...
I have been on the wait list since January of 2015 I am in regardless of price and will buy it as long as it checks all the boxes.
I have been on the wait list since January of 2015 I am in regardless of price and will buy it as long as it checks all the boxes.
Details:
Reminded of a friend, born the same year as I, who had ~40 vintage cars a number he raced (and ~40 vintage lake racing boats) with a Ferrari Enzo DD. I look at the pic below on my wall and think of his comments about doing what he wanted before it was too late! He died unexpectedly in 2010. After attending his celebration of life I started my 40+ car collection, albeit mine are much smaller!
Recall at that celebration talking with some of the folks from the local Ferrari club and one mentioned as he went into the country club asking who has that dirty Ferrari 599. He said Tom spoke up and said, “Me- want to do something about it!” That was Tom the most none pretentious multimillionaire I every met (not that I have met that many!) At our industry conventions, exhibitions and meetings Tom was about the only ”gearhead” distributor owner as was I from a manufacturer so we often talked. Sat on top of his 18 Wheeler race car transport at Laguna Seca Vintage Races a number of times. Great guy!
Thought, would Tom buy a C8? Sure as one of his DDs to evaluate it’s performance (if he owned it he drove it as it was designed and was very capable) but he would only race his Maserati Bird Cage (pic below,) Chrysler powered Cunningham C-2R, Porsche RSK Spyder, OSCA MT4-2AD etc. at vintage races.
His Dad died early in life when he was in college as did the fellow who taught him the business after. Tom said he was going to do what he wanted- just in case. He grew the buisess and had multiple stores but also drove his vintage cars in 4 or 5 races around the country each year and recall he flew one over to Europe to run the vintage Mille Miglia!
Yep Tom would buy a C8 but IMO most other’s with a Ferrari, high end Porsche, Lamborghini etc, would not want to be seen in a Chevy!
Last edited by JerryU; 11-16-2018 at 09:38 AM.