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$169,900, final price confirmed

Old 01-06-2019, 06:08 PM
  #1761  
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When the Lotus Elise and later Exige was first allowed to be sold in this country I believe they had a 5-year waiver to meet US bumper/nose and other safety standards. They decided to withdraw from the US market rather than complying, which they felt would mess up the design and add too much weight. It's still sold in the EU and perhaps other countries.

I think you can still buy an Exige in the US for "off-road use," but you can't register it for street use.

Originally Posted by Quinten33 View Post
They might use Toyota engines, but they’re so light and well balanced that you don’t care.
That is SO TRUE. At under 2K lbs., with an unbelievably great chassis and suspension, the Elise/Exige is a great example of how HP alone is overrated. Weight, or lack thereof, is in many ways more important. I owned a C6 Z06 at the same time, and I much preferred my Lotus on any track, even though I could be outrun on the straights. I needed far less braking and made up much if not all of the distance on the corners. It was damned near impossible to make that car swap ends.

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Old 01-06-2019, 07:14 PM
  #1762  
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Originally Posted by LIStingray
Have you spent any time in a Panamera? It is much more like an Audi A8 and BMW 6 or 7 series (i.e. - high performance sedan) than a true FE GT like the Jaguar F-Type, Mercedes AMG-GT or Ferrari Portofino. The market for a FE GT, which is where the C7 or a new FE Cx is just as dead as sports cars.
Yes actually I have, my buddy has a Panamera turbo which I have driven and worked on and I've instructed a few people on track and drove their cars for them on the track. For a big car they do surprisingly well. My point was they sell a lot of them.
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:41 PM
  #1763  
JerryU
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-
Originally Posted by Foosh View Post

That is SO TRUE. At under 2K lbs., with an unbelievably great chassis and suspension, the Elise/Exige is a great example of how HP alone is overrated. Weight, or lack thereof, is in many ways more important. I owned a C6 Z06 at the same time, and I much preferred my Lotus on any track, even though I could be outrun on the straights. I needed far less braking and made up much if not all of the distance on the corners. It was damned near impossible to make that car swap ends.
Reminded of a friend with a number of vintage race cars. Several times I watched as he brought two of the same cars to Laguna Seca. One was a Cunningham C2R that had raced at the 1951 Lemans and the other, one of his favorites, a Maserati Birdcage. Both in like new condition. They raced in different vintage classes.

I recall the Cunningham weighed ~3300 pounds and had a 335 cid (5.4 Liter) Chrysler hemi (the first year) with a log manifold and 4 single barrel carbs. He would be last coming on the one long straight at Laguna Seca but 1st or close coming into the Andretti hairpin at the end. By the end of the next 1/3 of the track, after the Corkscrew he'd be last! He was a purist and wanted to feel what the drivers of the day felt so no upgraded brake shoes! Same with tires, all had vintage replica tires.

The Maserati Birdcage was the opposite. it only weighed 1350 pounds with a 2.9 Liter (177 cid) L4. But he could keep up with the pack in all turns and did OK on the long straight. Recall he came in 2nd in one "race."

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Old 01-06-2019, 08:01 PM
  #1764  
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Originally Posted by z06801 View Post
Yes actually I have, my buddy has a Panamera turbo which I have driven and worked on and I've instructed a few people on track and drove their cars for them on the track. For a big car they do surprisingly well. My point was they sell a lot of them.
I guess that depends upon your definition of a lot. They sold just over 8K Panameras in the US in 2018, compared to just over 9K 911s and 5K Boxster/Caymans. Cayenne/Macan sales are the big money makers.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:43 PM
  #1765  
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Originally Posted by Foosh
I guess that depends upon your definition of a lot. They sold just over 8K Panameras in the US in 2018, compared to just over 9K 911s and 5K Boxster/Caymans. Cayenne/Macan sales are the big money makers.
So.... they almost sold as many Pans as they did 911s. The fact that they sell more Cayennes and Macans just makes a argument for a corvette suv.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:42 PM
  #1766  
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Originally Posted by z06801 View Post
So.... they almost sold as many Pans as they did 911s. The fact that they sell more Cayennes and Macans just makes a argument for a corvette suv.
Differences in brand and model. Porsche is a brand. 911, Cayenne, and Macan are models.

Chevrolet is a brand. Corvette, Tahoe, and Suburban are models.

Saying a Corvette SUV is like saying a 911 SUV.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:48 PM
  #1767  
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Originally Posted by Quinten33 View Post
They make the Elise, Exiege, and Evora. They have a few limited edition versions of each model every year, and each new variant is lighter and more powerful than the last. The U.S. only gets the Evora because the Elise and Exiege donít meet our safety standards. However, U.S. customers can order ANY Lotus for track use here.

They might use Toyota engines, but theyíre so light and well balanced that you donít care.
I remember back when the average sports car weights in between 1600 and 1900 pounds.

It is way more enjoyable to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:51 PM
  #1768  
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I think the sale of Macans and Cayennes makes a good argument for GM's current strategy of investing big time in CUV's and SUV's, but not necessarily branding them as Corvettes. Chevy already has the advantage of selling several SUV's and CUV's in the same showroom as they sell Corvettes and Camaros, so you might say they were ahead of their time on this trend and Porsche, (as well as Lamborghini and other sports car makers), are just catching up, LOL. It is no accident that many Porsche dealers in the US are also Audi and Range Rover dealers - they figured this out a while ago.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:50 PM
  #1769  
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re: camo’d cars possibly not even being the C8... for now, I do believe they probably are the new C8, but, even with that... soo many folks here either have forgotten about or never saw the Cadillac Cien concept from way back in 2001/2002ish:




...which prob dove many of the styling cues of the CTS-V that launched just a few years later...

Again, I do believe we are seeing the new C8...but it is not completely out of the realm of possibility that it could be a new performance caddy...

I was very sad to never see this one come to life in the factory...

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Old 01-07-2019, 06:45 AM
  #1770  
JerryU
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^^^^

At a car show last year, parked near my street rod was a Caddy XLR, the C6 Corvette turned Caddy and sold from 2004 through 2009. I mentioned to the owner the "specuation" that the C8 Corvette was predicted to be available as a Caddy a few years ago. In fact an "insider" posting on the forum said the Caddy enginners had "taken over the ME program." I recall posting in response that Chevy dealers would revolt if not having the ME to sell BUT perhaps a Caddy vesion would solve the issues we hear on the forum, re what the C7 needs.

For example, those that want the car fully insulated with a high end sound system. Others who want blind side detection and other electronic doodads. Some want a softer ride. There are folks who will never get near 1 "g" lateral acceleration and where a few hundred pounds more won't matter! They could get heavy cast aluminum wheels that don't bend when hitting the inevitable potholes etc!

That may have been a possibility until the Caddiac sales declined. Not sure why, as the wife had a CTS that we both liked. However when she wanted an SUV we looked at the Caddy offering that she didn't like. We went through several other makes and ended with a BMW. When replacing it with an identical BMW X5 SUV last year, the only time the Caddy SUV came up is when I was negotiang with the BMW salesman and said, "We'll have to see what price we can get for the Caddy XT5!" He met our price offer!

However, there is still a possibility, IMO, that the C8 will become available as a Caddy with added insulation, a high end sound system (perhaps even a 1500 watt Bang & Olufsen option) all-season tires on strong but heavy wheels, no dust brake pads and "real leather" on more than just the seating surface! The suspension would be tuned for those who never want to come close to the Vette version performance limits.

Just Sayn'

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Old 01-07-2019, 07:15 PM
  #1771  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
^^^^

At a car show last year, parked near my street rod was a Caddy XLR, the C6 Corvette turned Caddy and sold from 2004 through 2009.
A bit off topic, but have always wondered. The Cadillac XLR started as a 2004. Corvette C6 did not come out until 2005. So was the XLR based on the C5 as that was the Corvette that was in production when the XLR was developed and introduced. Or was the XLR developed in conjunction with the C6 and introduced a year ahead of the C6? If the latter then would the C6 be a durative of the XLR. In other words, the C6 was based on a Cadillac?
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:09 PM
  #1772  
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^^

I didn't follow the months each were introduced. But no way, IMO did Cadillac take the lead. They were no doubt doing heir own thing with the drivetrain, not sure why it was so different but it was. But I believe the basic chassis was a C6.

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Old 01-07-2019, 10:27 PM
  #1773  
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The XLR came out in late 2003 as a 2004 model. C6 came out in late 2004 as a 2005, one full year after the XLR.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:06 AM
  #1774  
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I could be wrong, but I believe the XLR was built on the C5 chassis.

Last edited by Foosh; 01-08-2019 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:37 AM
  #1775  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I could be wrong, but I believe the XLR was built on the C5 chassis.
it was a mix of c5 and c6 components. I would call it c5.5
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:45 PM
  #1776  
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Yeah, but by chassis I meant built on the C5 platform. Components are something different.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:51 PM
  #1777  
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Originally Posted by dcbingaman View Post
I think the sale of Macans and Cayennes makes a good argument for GM's current strategy of investing big time in CUV's and SUV's, but not necessarily branding them as Corvettes. Chevy already has the advantage of selling several SUV's and CUV's in the same showroom as they sell Corvettes and Camaros, so you might say they were ahead of their time on this trend and Porsche, (as well as Lamborghini and other sports car makers), are just catching up, LOL. It is no accident that many Porsche dealers in the US are also Audi and Range Rover dealers - they figured this out a while ago.
The Porsche dealer here in Springfield, Missouri sells VW's and Mitsubishi, but not Audi or Range Rover. There is no Range Rover dealer in Springfield, MO.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:08 PM
  #1778  
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Originally Posted by z06801 View Post
So.... they almost sold as many Pans as they did 911s. The fact that they sell more Cayennes and Macans just makes a argument for a corvette suv.
While the US sales represents approximately 90% of corvette sales, this is not true of Porsche.

Worldwide sales in 2017 of the Porsche models.

Boxster/Cayman--------------------25,114
911-------------------------------------32,197
Panamera----------------------------37,605
Cayenne------------------------------63,913
Macan---------------------------------97,202

Notice that Porsche sold quite a bit fewer sedans(Panamera at 37,605) than they did sports cars(911/Boxster/Cayman at 57,311) worldwide.

I don't believe that the number of Corvettes sold come anywhere close to the number of SUV's, CUV's, sedans etc sold by GM.

I think that GM already has the sales of SUV's/CUV's/Sedans pretty well covered. Adding another SUV etc with a Corvette badge wouldn't necessarily increase GM's sales numbers, as those that would buy a Corvette SUV are already buying GM's SUV's. I don't see where rebadging an existing GM SUV with a Corvette badge would steal any SUV business from Porsche.

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Old 01-08-2019, 03:26 PM
  #1779  
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To add to the above, Porsche has been working for decades on it's international dealer and sales network. They sell basically the same models worldwide. GM makes little or no effort to sell it's US models overseas. It sold Opel and Vauxhall to Peugeot, leaving it essentially without an EU dealer network. It's efforts in China are joint ventures w/ Chinese companies where they essentially sell Chinese-only versions of various vehicles.

For GM to be a serious about selling Corvettes internationally, it would require quite an investment in both time and capital to build it. I don't see that happening at this point in time.

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Old 01-11-2019, 11:46 PM
  #1780  
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**CONFIRMED**

Good job Zerv. Sorry to the guys who thought the rear mid engine halo car from Chevy was going to come in a hair under a Camaro Zl1 1LE..
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