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$169,900, final price confirmed

 
Old 01-12-2019, 11:05 AM
  #1801  
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Originally Posted by Bill17601 View Post
The starting price will be in the upper 70ís.
If the current $55K base price goes over $65K, GM can kiss 30K annual sales of this car goodbye forever. And THAT's why they won't go there. Unless they plan to jettison the marketing formula that has worked for the Corvette brand now for SIXTY FIVE + YEARS.

Makes. No. Sense.

But then this is GM, this is the American auto industry. Counter intuitive thinking that kills business was honed to a corporation crushing craft here.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:07 AM
  #1802  
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For example, if my car's MSRP had been $10K higher, it's quite likely I'd STILL be looking for a used Corvette.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:46 AM
  #1803  
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A lot of people are saying that the market for C7s is saturated because the sales are dropping. My take is that C7 sales are down because of all the C8 rumors. People are putting off their Corvette purchase to see what the C8 will be.

If the Corvette buyer likes the C8 and the price is right then they will buy one. But if the buyers do not like the style and/or price of the C8 then there will be a huge run on the leftover C7s.

If there were no rumors of a C8, then C7 sales would still be humming along quite nicely.

Last edited by Tom73; 01-12-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:55 AM
  #1804  
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
The problem with breaking up the Corvette into two distinct platforms is that you incur twice the production costs while splitting the already established customer base.
Just a dumb question but why would it be twice the production costs? If the plant can support the manufacture of two vehicles and both of those vehicles share a large number of parts but one with the engine up front and one in the back why would costs double? While I do believe it's possible for GM to deliver an ME car for just above the price of the C7 perhaps someone decided this is the prime opportunity to expand the lineup. The one common thread from the majority of Corvette enthusiasts is that any new C8 gen Corvette needs to cater to the existing buyers. I would think two cars would meet a lot more of those wants and needs than one.

I know, I know, the insiders have already stated there will never be another FE Corvette. They have also stated that the price for the ME will start with a 6. They have already stated that this new ME will set a new standard for ME sports cars and be able to haul just as much gear as a C7. They have already stated it will be everything the FE C7 is just be better in almost every way and for just a couple grand more. It will be awesome if GM has discovered a way to make all these things a reality and a car that is visually stunning as well. Would be awesome to actually see it on the 14th if that's the case.....

Last edited by JDSKY; 01-12-2019 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:55 AM
  #1805  
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^^^^^^
[COLOR=left=#000000]The problem with...[/COLOR]
Well said at many levels. I take the competitive angle and by that I mean GM along with others have probably figure out (or they expect) more money coming in the super luxury sport segment versus just luxury..
I suppose others have figure out the same, as you correctly pointed out, the field is becoming increasingly tight. However, we also know (your example of R8 for example) some names in the space are not doing that well at the moment...which is to say the money coming in may be that same or even more but some are not as successful to capture it...

And with the success begets success mantra it could be that Corvette may be leveraging their #1 position in luxury sport to aim higher..for those higher margins WHILE maintaining the established base..after all a lot of folks seem to crying doom for Corvette selling "only" 23K cars last year...WHEN in reality a Porsche, Audi or Mercedes for that matter would "kill" for that kind of sales sustainment ESPECIALLY with the kind of marketing and export costs they have and try to pass to customers..

This of course implies a more complex manufacturing system (economies of scale) which I believe BG has proven to have to change platforms every five years anyway... or stated differently, do you know of any other competitor that has been able to dramatically change the platform in those volumes at that pace...?

So obviously any "change" has risks associated with it but with an FE + ME strategy Corvette may be trying to renew the established base (me) and bring in new blood and converts from the names that are not making it... and couple the volume play with the margins play. Yes some folks see it as incompatible... "80K Corvette will never fly...100K Corvette will never fly....and here we are at 150K Corvettes "flying" :-)

Will see...

Last edited by Telepierre; 01-12-2019 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:03 PM
  #1806  
JerryU
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Originally Posted by Zerv02 View Post
Regarding price - please refer to the post I made over a month ago, and over 9 times before that, on the original "169k" thread.

FROM 12/10/2018
Quote:. I already stated 9 times that this price is most likely for the mid-tier GT, but even so, I still believe the base variant will have an entry of $105-115K. The keyword is believe. It's just my speculation that th

Base: $105-115K (MY SPECULATION)
Mid: $169k (CONFIRMED)
Halo: $250K + (MY SPECULATION)

Does the Base c8 feel like a car worthy of a $105-115k price point? I can tell you, yes, absolutely. Last edited by Zerv02; 12-10-2018 at 10:14 PM.
This makes 10 times you are wrong! But glad your coming down in price.

My guess is MSRP in the mid 70’s for the base car or less. That is based on marketing price/volume relationship and that GM didn’t spend all that money in Bowling Green to sell <half the cars. At your guess prices, much less!

When the price is announced, I understand crow, properly prepared, can taste good!

PS: Forum members who must have a lower price, just wait for Kerbeck and others to discount ~15% when demand reduces!

Last edited by JerryU; 01-12-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:04 PM
  #1807  
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
The problem with breaking up the Corvette into two distinct platforms is that you incur twice the production costs while splitting the already established customer base.
Not production costs, that would basicly the same. But the Development Costs would double for developing two distinct models.

Last edited by Tom73; 01-12-2019 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:07 PM
  #1808  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post

This makes 10 times you are wrong! But glad your coming down in price.

My guess is mid 70ís for the base car or less. That is based on marketing price/volume relationship and that GM didnít spend all that money in Bowling Green to sell <half the cars. At your guess prices, much less!

When the price is announced, I understand crow, properly prepared, can taste good!
Your guess is worth nothing. You are "guessing" based on the fact the Vette always had a price point that was under a Ferrari etc..

This isn't going to follow the normal front engine pricing. The fact that the engine is in the back of the car should be enough for you to understand but I guess you feel that rear engine cars are just as simple to produce as front engine cars and this is simply a "style change"

You guys who think it's going to cost 5 figures are insane.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:09 PM
  #1809  
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Originally Posted by JDSKY View Post
Just a dumb question but why would it be twice the production costs? If the plant can support the manufacture of two vehicles and both of those vehicles share a large number of parts but one with the engine up front and one in the back why would costs double? While I do believe it's possible for GM to deliver an ME car for just above the price of the C7 perhaps someone decided this is the prime opportunity to expand the lineup. The one common thread from the majority of Corvette enthusiasts is that any new C8 gen Corvette needs to cater to the existing buyers. I would think two cars would meet a lot more of those wants and needs than one.

I know, I know, the insiders have already stated there will never be another FE Corvette. They have also stated that the price for the ME will start with a 6. They have already stated that this new ME will set a new standard for ME sports cars and be able to haul just as much gear as a C7. They have already stated it will be everything the FE C7 is just be better in almost every way and for just a couple grand more. It will be awesome if GM has discovered a way to make all these things a reality and a car that is visually stunning as well. Would be awesome to actually see it on the 14th if that's the case.....
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?

If it was easy as a simple redesign.. why hasn't ford, dodge, or chevy EVER come out with one??

Common sense is your best friend =)

Get ready for a 300k Dodge Viper to be announced that's going to be built by a 3rd party like the Ford GT..

Last edited by ViperFan1; 01-12-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:15 PM
  #1810  
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Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?
Easy question to answer. Because it's not a part of their business model and they are not going to pivot off that model.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:22 PM
  #1811  
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Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?
I would not put Porsche in that group. But for Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren, the only reason they cost so much is that they build so few and there is next to no market in a high volume. If you only build 500 to a 1000 cars then you have very few units to spread your development cost over. But if you take that $800,000 car that you only produce 850 of, and produce 50,000 of them (assuming first there is a market for such an impractical car) then you could probably sale them for under $150,000. You could also probably build in reliability and ease of service into them. This is often left off of low volume cars to save on development costs.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:30 PM
  #1812  
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We can't build that level of a car at that price point; we are not there yet..
Direct quote from a Mercedes engineer to me after a 2016 competitive clinic on the C7 Z06.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:31 PM
  #1813  
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Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Your guess is worth nothing. You are "guessing" based on the fact the Vette always had a price point that was under a Ferrari etc..

This isn't going to follow the normal front engine pricing. The fact that the engine is in the back of the car should be enough for you to understand but I guess you feel that rear engine cars are just as simple to produce as front engine cars and this is simply a "style change"

You guys who think it's going to cost 5 figures are insane.
Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?

If it was easy as a simple redesign.. why hasn't ford, dodge, or chevy EVER come out with one??

Common sense is your best friend =)

Get ready for a 300k Dodge Viper to be announced that's going to be built by a 3rd party like the Ford GT..
Engine in rear =/= expensive
Ex: Fiero and MR2

Why no attempts past those have been made exactly idk, but this matches my assumptions:
"The thing about a midengine layout is that it's pretty much inherently complicatedly packaged and compromised on everyday usability. The thing about a cheap sports car is that it should be simple and easy to use on a regular poor broke person's daily basis.
You can see that these two philosophies don't really match up."
https://jalopnik.com/rip-the-afforda...car-1650109009
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:37 PM
  #1814  
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Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?

Common sense is your best friend =)

Get ready for a 300k Dodge Viper to be announced that's going to be built by a 3rd party like the Ford GT..
Answer is simple and well known. It would cheapen their brand. The brand carries with it a special elite status they have worked years to create, you suddenly start tossing out cheap 30k versions and designs, it cheapens the brand. As far as the Dodge Viper, the thing that killed the Viper was stubbornness. Dodge wouldnt create an automatic transmission version and their sales died because of it.

As far as why hasnt the major US brands come out with ME cars, they have tried them here and there, but they prove to be a pain in the *** for dealerships and for maintenance. Its not worth the aggravation. Lets remember Trucks and SUVS are where the money is at now, our performance coupes are just a side division compared to what really brings in the buyers.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:47 PM
  #1815  
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Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Your guess is worth nothing. .
Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?
.
Hmm, my "guess" is based on knowing quite a bit about marketing, business as well as engineering!

Wishful thinking that GM can become a Ferrari overnight (and IMO probably ever!)

SIDE BAR
Currently reading a 954 page book by Luca Dal Monte, entitled "Enzo Ferrari." The forward is by Luca di Monteezemolo, current pres who worked with Mr. Ferrari. Here is once anecdote:
He states Ferrari was an absolute "marketing genius." He recalled at a time of a long oil shortage and very high gas prices and they were hiding cars built for inventory so folks visiting the plant didn't see them. Quoting:

An American visiting said, "Commendatore, I would like to buy a Ferrari. Ferrari replied, "Yes of course. But we have many requests...I'll do what I can, but I am afraid that you will have to wait several months before you can buy one."

Luca went on to say because a Ferrari must be desired. It cannot and must not be perceived as something that is immediately available; otherwise the dream is gone!

Good book! However even if Mary Barra reads it she will never be an Enzo Ferrari!



Last edited by JerryU; 01-13-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:13 PM
  #1816  
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Originally Posted by WGGS View Post
I thought the most popular Corvette was the 1LT trim?
It was on the C7 by a wide margin, and 3LT had a very low take rate. So much for the theory that the majority is clamoring for nicer interiors. It's actually a very tiny and very noisy minority.

Originally Posted by invadermoose View Post
Some of you guys are unbelievable. Zerv has been right about A LOT of stuff so far. The interior drawing was right on, yet of course loads of people are still calling BS on the price.

I know you dont want the price to be $169k, but come on. Why does everyone think it will be under $100k? No one has ever said that. Its just a bunch of wishing. Your only basis for the car being under $100k is the fact you want it to be under $100k. Theres no source for that. I know everyone thinks $100k would be too much and it would never sell, but those are baseless opinions from people who clearly have less knowledge on whats actually going on than Zerv apparently does. I think it makes more sense to believe what he is saying at this point.

I dont want it to be $169k either, but I believe it. The Corvette has always been sort of a value car. As far as dollar:horsepower goes, its always been one of the best. Its entirely possible that for $169k it actually winds up being a good deal compared to other vehicles of similar performance. Who knows. Would $169k still be unreasonable if it directly competed with the 720s, for example?
It works both ways. There's no credible info that it will start over $100K. It doesn't matter if that's a good deal compared to Ferrari and Porsches. The vast majority of folks simply cannot afford or will not pay that much for a toy. 70% of Corvette buyers paid under $80K.

The argument against is simply that it defies logic that the GM Board would approve a pricing strategy that would cut sales by 2/3rds or more. It also defies logic that GM would offer TWO, 2-seat sports cars. Even ZERV is not predicting dual FE and ME production.

And BTW, you say ZERV has been right about "a LOT of things." If you're talking about the interior, well maybe, but I can't think of anything else yet.

Last edited by Foosh; 01-12-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:19 PM
  #1817  
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Originally Posted by ViperFan1 View Post
Why doesn't Lambroghini, Ferrari, Porsche, or McLaren make a sub 100k car?
Umm, I can buy a base model of every Porsche new for under $100k.

As to Lamborghini and Ferrari, many here still do not understand that they are luxury brands. People that buy those cars buy them in large part because of exclusivity, and part of exclusivity is scarcity, and part of scarcity is higher production costs. McLaren is even more exclusive and even more performance orientated, meaning even more cost. It's like asking why, if Lincoln can make a luxurious car for $50k, why isn't Rolls Royce doing the same. Different brands with different markets and production needs.

As to ME costing more, no. Porsche builds one for $60k. GM had no problem building one for even cheaper in the 80's. I think someone also mentioned the MR2 as a very low cost example.


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Old 01-12-2019, 01:21 PM
  #1818  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
Wishful thinking that GM can become a Ferrari overnight (and IMO probably ever!)
Especially considering Cadillac tried about the same thing, and failed.

They had a good thing with the 2nd gen CTS-V . . . M5 fighter with an M3 price point. So what did they do? "Oh! We'll compete directly with BMW/Mercedes by improving it a little and pricing it just below an M5, and make an ATS-V and price it just below an M3."

What happened? They sat on lots forever.

At the same price point, the majority of people are going to choose German, whether it be for luxury or performance. American cars only sell because they offer similar performance to people on a budget who don't necessarily care about all the details.

Last year in the US, Chevrolet sold twice as many Corvettes as Porsche did 911s (~18K+ vs 9K+). Even if they upped the quality of the Corvette a bit (not that there's anything wrong with it, but it's not a Porsche) and priced it at base 911 levels, you'd see sales drop to ~2K units a year . . . just like Cadillac had its sales cut by over 70% when they priced it upmarket.

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Old 01-12-2019, 01:27 PM
  #1819  
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Originally Posted by Foosh
It was on the C7 by a wide margin, and 3LT had a very low take rate. So much for the theory that the majority is clamoring for nicer interiors. It's actually a very tiny and very noisy minority.It works both ways.
This is very true. I went 3LT for my car cause I wanted a more GT type sports car. But I can assure anyone on here, I know plenty of guys with 1LT's who love their cars just the same. It's no surprise to me to understand why. They are getting the same exact performing car for in some cases 10-15k cheaper. Less things that can go wrong in the long run, a more pure sports car in a sense. I understand it now more then ever.

The new car will be a value for performance still, UNLESS you add every option they offer.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:54 PM
  #1820  
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They said the C8 ME would cost about the same as the C7, but which C7? ZR1, Z06, GS, Stingray? I'm guessing the base C8 will cost about the same as the base C7 Z06, so about $79K. I hope I'm wrong though!
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