Kodiak Bear

Facinating that the Brits used RR Avons in the Canberra and set several altitude records using Olympus engines while the J-65 engines in the B-57 was a third Britisb design built in the US. I think there was a bit of NIH in the USAF. In knew the pilot of the last high altitude B-57 NASA 927 that was flying for NASA. AF reserve. That was sometime in the late 1990s or very early 2000s.

But back to the subject of the LT in the ME. The simple answer IMO is you bet. An initial version of the ME will have a verson of the LT.

As for the Mustang argument. Ford turned down the choice to build a Mustang for the Le Mans Race and chose instead to develop a radical $400k car to race in the same class as the Corvette. GM has chosen to develope a street ME Corvette whose race version will face the Ford GT. The engine choice will be facinating. Ford used a twin turbo V-6, GM will use ?????.

Warp Factor

I'm thinkin' that a tried-and-true LT1, LT4 or LT5 would do quite nicely.

BEAR-AvHistory

Yeah think it was a "lets repeat history" marketing thing on the 50TH anniversary of the GT40 1-2-3 sweep of Ferrari at Le Mans. They almost did it with a 1-3-4 finish running the new FORD GT. The next year the FORD GT was on the podium with a 2nd place behind the Aston Martin. This last year the made the podium behind a pair of Porsche's.

Don't know whats down the road as IIRC the FORD GT has a limited run so they could switch to the Mustang after this year. They also have a load of blocks they can use in whatever they chose, even the current COYOTE is a little bigger then the first two generations.

The last 2014 662BHP GT-500 ran a 5.8L supercharged engine & the GT-350 a 5.0 N/A. So its not impossible for the new GT500 to have more then 5.2L since they did it last time.

With a Steeda tune & exhaust package the old 5.8L engine it was up to 725BHP & that was 6 years ago. Regardless expect their 2020 target is around 765/770BHP.

Think the choice for racing versions of the street cars almost does not matter. At a couple of Porsche meet & greets in comjunction with the Oak Tree Grand Prix had a chance to talk to Earl Bamber and Nick Tandy who drive for Porsche. The cars are so heavily penalized to make them all equal (for better closer racing) that most have a lot less power then the cars that are sold at the dealerships. Restrictor plates, ballast etc. have made sandbagging an art form.

Tom73

How did this thread get off to a Chevy vs Ford fuel economy debate?

Its srarted about what engine will will be in the C8 Corvette.

The C8 will not have a Ford engine, or a Porsche, or a Ferrari engine. So can we keep it to what is a real possibility?

BEAR-AvHistory

Bigger Blackwing called the Skate so its not confused with Cadillac's engine

JoesC5

GM is using a Ford designed 10 speed transmission, so why not use a Ford engine. maybe this one.... https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...cid=spartanntp

Kodiak Bear

Or an Al versdion of this?

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/02/202...ep-dive-video/

Just kidding.

JoesC5

I'm guessing that the 6.6L truck engine from GM is based on the 4.060 bore LT1 with 4.400" bore centers but with a longer stroke(4.071") than the LT1(3.620"). The Ford engine has a 4.220" bore(with most likely 4.500" bore centers( so it could be 6.6L with a shorter stroke that the GM engine. The much larger bore on the Ford engine would allow heads with larger ports and large diameter valves for better upper RPM flow, etc.. Even if done as a 7.0L engine(4.220 " X 3.810"), the Ford engine would have a shorter stroke than the GM LS7(4.000"), so it wouldn't require the expensive Ti rods to run at a mild 6,500 RPM, or maybe at 7,000 RPM without AFM).

7.0L with a cast iron block for strength at high boost with twin turbo's would be a mighty powerful C8.

Kodiak Bear

Here's a short commentry on the LT engine series

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/vide...nes-so-strong/

This person contends that the block is strong enough for a bit more hp. than the LS

“With the LT engine, we’re seeing engines living at 1,400 to 1,500 rear-wheel horsepower with a production block. It’s still a four-bolt design, but with the deck, bolt-diameter, and cylinder head integrity improvements, it results in a much higher strength package.”

BEAR-AvHistory

Will go back to what I said earlier, raw horsepower is nice for bragging rights but its not the answer. Getting a chassis that will get the raw horsepower to the ground is the answer. Cars driven on the street have definitive limits on how much horsepower creates the proper balance.

A RWD 755BHP ZR1 @ 3560lbs will run down an AWD 600BHP M5 @ 4370lbs in the last few feet of a 1/4 mile run 10.8 to 10.9 & fly by 135MPH to 129MPH. You have a fat heavy, by comparison low horsepower, 4 door sedan down 155BHP, in the lead for maybe a 1000 feet. The inability to get the power to the ground greatly hinders high horsepower cars against cars with a lot less power.

On a road course the big power cars are golden but how many of them ever see a road course?

We have a zillion posts here on engines but in reality any engine we are talking about would make a C8 a very fast car. Trick is to convert the power to forward motion but almost zero conversation on chassis, suspension or tires.

Some conversation on transmissions but believe its pretty much settled with top performance DCT, most fun to drive MT, fuhgeddaboudit ZF8.

NY09C6

the 10 speed was a GM/Ford joint effort. saying GM used a Ford trans is not accurate

BEAR-AvHistory

Ford and GM’s partnership was to design both nine and ten-speed automatic transmissions. GM took lead in the engineering of the (Hydramatic 10L90) nine-speed transaxle unit, which was intended for front & all-wheel drive models with transversely mounted engines. Ford did the (10R80) ten-speed gearbox, for rear & four-wheel drive vehicles equipped with longitudinally mounted engines.

That said both companies build their own versions of the transmissions.

Kodiak Bear

Absolutely agree

Additionally, the trick is to sell. HP sells. The trick is bragging rights. Mine has more HP than yours is a bragging right. Even if its my brand, not my model. Purchase decisions do not appear to be the results of a rational processes, But there’s a lot of rationalization that takes place after the decision is made.

A good example within the Vett is the GS vs whatever the latest big blower model Vett available. The GS with track mods is more likely to perform well even on track because that's what the driver can handle. But you need the big blower to be able to show Jay Leno hitting over 200 MPH on a test track,

I see Cad is trying to change the game by introducing models designated by torque figures represented in European metrics. I suspect the hope is to come up with a bigger number than the competition even though only 1% (at max) of the customers will have the foggiest idea of what the numbers really mean.

In effect most folks who want a big blower, big HP Vett with a manual can't drive it within any approximation of ultimate performance. That's OK if what they want is bragging rights. Same holds for having the standard Vett engine in a person's Vett but wanting to brag about the HP of the blower model.

JD_AMG

There are a couple "special" members that are desperately trying their damnedest to discredit the LSx/LTx engines and trying to find anything to do so, but failing miserably. It led to a gas mileage debate out of desperation and that failed miserably too as the Corvette gets better gas mileage than competition, despite using an "old tech" pushrod engine (that happens to be significantly lighter and smaller than DOHC V8s, and some V6s as well).

JD_AMG

Its good to see you finally giving up, it was getting embarrassing for you there.
Lets not pretend like guys are buying $100K performance cars only to drag race them, those cars are designed to be all around performers, not just straight line stuff.
False. Have you ever road raced? Its even harder to put down big power on a road course than a prepped drag strip. The Zr1 is "golden" because of its superb balance and chassis setup, despite being at its limit of power it can use.

Part of the reason they are going ME. And a great reason to stick with a pushrod V8, you want a small lightweight engine you can mount low to the ground and close to the center of the chassis for the best balance.

JerryU

Ah yes and if you want a really compact V8, use an old "Flathead!"

Had one of those in my 1st car, a '41 coupe, but even in 1960 I was smart enough to go to a modern engine used "In-The-Day" an OHV Olds! Times change - get prepared! Funny that flathead didn't have to push the valves open with a long skinny rod that flexed at high rpm!

Some of us are NOT discrediting anything! Flatheads should live forever in street rods. I love the pushrod, NA 502 cid BB in my Street Rod BUT want a modern engine in my C8!

Noticed the Alfa name is being used for the first time since 1985 in the 1st F1 race of 2019 I saw qualifying late last night, or I guess early this morning from Australia.

Gee, think Ferrari would be willing to sell that "modern" 505 hp, 2.9 Liter, double overhead cam (with independently variable intake and exhaust timing to optimize mpg and power,) 4 valves/cylinder and twin turbos in the 2019 Giulia- for the C8?? Perhaps they could modify the 141 hp KERS they are adding for 645 total hp so we could drive the C8 front wheels with the extra hybrid power! Oh yea also save some of ~ 1/3 of the power that gets to the rear wheels wasted braking!

z06801

Hmmm,,,, I wonder why the Cadillac DPI has ran the 6.2 and now 5.5 N/A LS based pushrod motor instead of the Blackwing, if the DOHC has such an avantage. Rules would allow them to run any Cadillac motor they wanted to.

BEAR-AvHistory

You want to fix a Corvette with a small light weight engine.


Street legal EPA approved*
Naturally aspirated:
Base C7 6.2L 455BHP
Base Mustang 5.0L 460BHP
Z51 Corvette 6.2L 460BHP
Bullit Mustang 5.0L 480BHP
350GT 5.2L 526BHP
Aventador SVJ 5.6 770BHP 2200lbs to fast to be street legal as delivered?* just for fun
Ferrari 6.5L 789BHP just for fun.

Supercharged
Zo6 6.2L 655BHP
GT500 5.8L 662BHP
ZR1 6.2L 755BHP
GT500 TBD

BEAR-AvHistory

Cadillac is being coy, pulling a Sergeant Schultz "I know nothing" about running a DOHC engine in racing. The CEO also said over his dead body would Chevy get the engine. Not sure but believe the Blackwing could not be FIA homologated before the 2021 season, maybe someone who knows about the rules could jump in.

As this thread drags on only time will provide the answers. That said the tide is running toward DOHC-T at GM

JoesC5

I am accurate. I said the GM is using a Ford DESIGNED 10 speed automatic RWD transmission. Ford DESIGNED it fully independent of GM's DESIGN team.

This is what I said...."GM is using a Ford designed 10 speed transmission, so why not use a Ford engine". I did not say that GM was using a Ford BUILT transmission.

Each company then manufacturers their own version of the Ford DESIGNED 10 speed auto.

As a joint effort GM DESIGNED the 9 speed FWD auto transmission. THEN, each company would share their designs with each other.

While GM is actually building their version of the Ford DESIGNED 10 speed RWD automatic transmission, Ford has decided not to build their version of the GM DESIGNED 9 speed FWD auto transmission, as the additional cost to manufacture is not being covered by the little improvement in fuel economy.

https://www.motor1.com/news/239934/f...-transmission/