Foosh

I disagree. I don't think more than a handful of geeks care, if that. As as been repeatedly said, there is no longer any physical connection to the throttle, and brakes are controlled by electronic modules and sensors. The steering rack is also operated electronically. Those are not an issue because they have not significantly altered driving feel when well implemented.

If the appropriate feel is maintained for the clutch pedal and shifter dance, that's all that matters.

The only ones who've raised the issue here are a couple of DCT advocates.

In this same vein, I just saw an ad tonight on network TV for the new-gen, Toyota Corolla, that they are offering it with a manual transmission. It was a slick commercial aimed at early 20-somethings buying their first new cars. What has Toyota discovered in their marketing research that conflicts with the popular contention here that 20-somethings aren't interested?

0JLemke

Agreed. If they establish a 3 pedal stick with a proper feel, that's all I care about. I couldn't care less how it's accomplished (wires or linkage) as long as it feels right and is reliable. They do that....
I'm in.

theplatinumog

and if there is no manual, I am out.

AORoads

Whatever Toyota has figured out so that they'll offer a manual trans in the Corolla (which they used to do for probably as long as 2+ decades), about the only other maker re-offering (if there is such a word) manual trans is Jeep. It could be a good move for both companies. We'll see if GM has already picked up on the idea at the great reveal in July!

NW-99SS

I laugh at the "Auto/DCT is faster" justification for eliminating manuals...

Does anyone realize how ridiculous of a statement that is? First, if being faster was the only criteria for keeping a transmission, then the auto would have died in the Corvette over 50 years ago. Second, unless you are competing for money, or only care about setting lap records (last I checked, no private member has their name on any lap records for production stock cars at any track I am aware of), then being the "fastest" means nothing other than not having to hone a skill.

I advocate for options - meaning I want everyone to have the option to choose what transmission they want. This - manuals are dead because they are 0.01 seconds/lap slower - mentality is immature, and not historically based. You want the car to shift for you - great, I don't - would rather work on my driving control skills which includes shifting a transmission manually - for me.

Shaka

Yoov been here long enough to know that sensible posts are not permitted here.

punky

Excellent post. I never realized how much more fun a manual sports/performance is until I owned a C7 A8 Z06. Had no gripes about the car as it was gorgeous, fast, and did what one expected but it just got boring. Tried the paddle shifters a number times and it just felt like an old MOPAR push button automatic from the 60s. I'll leave the convenient little paddles on the steering wheel to the millennials and sushi eaters. I personally have no interest in a sports car, muscle car, etc. without a clutch pedal and refuse to buy one without a fully manual transmission. There are many who feel this way and GM knows it. The Corvette is not some hand crafted, 1 of 2,000, snob mobiles where the manufacturer knows that they will sell all 2,000 units with a take it or leave transmission. The Corvette is viable in volume and GM knows they need the manual cave men like me.

JerriVette

It will be interesting to see the ford gt500 with its dct versus the less expemsive manual transmission gt350 sales figures in the next few years...

comparing profitability from the gt350 initial sales date should be included.

if I remember correctly ford is already planning double the take rate next year on gt500s versus the two year old gt350.


i think its 5000 gt500 s versus a thousand or 2 thousand gt350s...

not the end all but an interesting occurance to watch.

personally i believe gm will figure out a way to add a manual transmission to meet the consumer demand as c8 sales slow down over time.

it would make sense and suppliers are quite adept at meeting manufacturers potiential requests...

if porsche could do this with the 911 gm and its supplier base could more than easily accomplish this task.

i dont expect gm executives to announce such a possibility at launch as their goal is to sell immediately what they have planned for to be the best corvette ever...

i do believe a plan B always exists somewhere even if not acknowledged...

for those diehearts...just hold onto and enjoy your manual and that will most probably and eventually convince the powers at be inside gm to make a manual available should sales begin to need a pick me up...

im ok with a dct yet I am surprised gm walked away from double digit option take rates on the corvette.

i look forward to owning a dct equipped rear mid engine 500 hp corvette c8.

if its good enough for mclarens, ferraris, lamborghinis im willing to give it a shot...

jmo

NW-99SS

Thank you and agreed. I've also driven a C7Z06 A8 and your statement is spot on about fast, but boring. I have limited DCT experience to a couple of Germans (M3 and AMG), but my feelings remain the same - paddle shifting doesn't do anything for me when it comes to driving experience...and since I have to pay for my performance cars, the most bang for my buck in driving experience involves manually manipulating gears. I've been a C8 supporter since day 1, as it was always Duntov's dream - but if I can't have it in a manual, I won't buy one plain and simple. Plenty of other great Corvettes that have manuals I will choose instead.

Michael A

I think GM could do a drive by wire manual system that would have even better feel than a mechanical system. Why? Let's face it, many of the GM clutch systems aren't that great. The pedal pressure is non-linear due to the diaphragm clutch. We've all heard of clutches sticking to the floor of the car at high RPM. I've always found it weird to have the pedal effort reduce as you go towards the floor, rather than the other way around. The 5th Gen. Camaro was awful in this regard. Diaphragm pressure plates have been in use to reduce clutch pedal effort, but they are less than ideal. A diaphragm clutch would not be needed with a drive-by-wire clutch system. They could go back to a spring pressure plate enabling a lot of spring pressure, without a lot of pedal effort. The pedal effort could be linear, and the engagement range wide and controllable. It could be a very pleasant, and precise clutch to use.

Another benefit is no more clutch fluid changes.

I do recommend GM assigns the project to someone who appreciates manual transmissions, and is willing to sweat the details rather than cobbling together a "it's good enough" system. They could use the Porsche Cayman as a benchmark, and then improve even more from there. For some reason, Porsche really knows how to design precision clutch and shifter systems.

Foosh

Porsche uses ZF manuals, which have always been excellent in terms of feel. Unfortunately, ZF doesn't build a manual that can safely and reliably handle more than 400 ft lbs tq. That's the reason you don't see high-powered V8s with ZF manuals. For example, the F-Type manual was limited to V6s only.

vndkshn

We have a 4th gen Camaro and it would definitely challenge the claim that the 5th gen's clutch was the worst. The car has had 3 clutch master cylinders put in it due to either the clutch pedal sticking to the floor or not applying pressure when pressed.

Ironically, as near as I can tell, the 1984 BMW project car sitting in my shop appears to have the original factory clutch master cylinder and I know that clutch works just fine.

But I agree that an electrical system could actually be better than the hydraulic.

thill444

GT5000 will not be produced at the volume level of a Corvette and will likely have huge waiting lists. They will sell every one manual or no manual. It's nothing like the Corvette where they are trying to sell 30-40K+ a year.

NW-99SS

This is the result of the 4th gen's garbage Master Cylinder design and the restricted line to the Slave - the hydraulic clutch design on the 4th gens works very well with a proper Master and unrestricted line.

Most people who "fix" 4th gen clutches do not properly flush and bleed the system as required. I have heard more complaints from the 5th gen crowd over stock clutch "feel" than the 4th gen crowd.

0JLemke

Same experience. I've had several Corvette's and vipers over the years (and Falcon F7's ) All were manuals except one corvette that I hated. Last year I traded my viper for a 2017 ZO6 for the summer and it was a wonderful car with so much to love about it. The car was fantastic in every way except the A8. I couldn't stand it because I was bored. I tried keeping it in manual mode and tried to find a way to enjoy it, I just couldn't make myself like the car but I could not wait to get my Viper back to start shifting again. I'm so excited about the C8 and everything about it seems so amazing, but I'm afraid of getting bored driving it as that's what's happened in the past. I spent some time behind the wheel of a new Ferrari 488 and that was exciting for a few minutes because of what it was, but that type of excitement would be short lived for me. I need the manual driving experience.

vndkshn

Well, my has had every version of MC in it. I think they redesigned it late in 2000 (never verified this one) and again in 2002 (verified). It's on it's 2nd 2002 version now, and the whole hydraulic system (brakes and clutch) get flushed yearly on that car, so I don't think that is the issue. Line has also been replaced with an aftermarket free flow one (I forget who's now). It seems like they made the seals out of cardboard (like the synchros in the trans are). With 77k on the original clutch, when if finish installing the lift in my shop, the first thing is a new clutch, probably another new MC, and a reman trans without the stupid compressed cardboard synchos.

"Feel" on the 5th gen I think is partially related to seating position and pedal orientation. Could also be the pedal design itself, who knows?

I agree on the comment about the GT500s. Ford isn't planning to sell a ton of those (just as they don't plan to sell a ton of GT350s). Both are low volume vehicles that seem to sell out every year. I know the dealer we bought my wife's Explorer sport at has a waiting list for both cars.

punky

The 2007 GT500 was to be a "very limited" 2 yr run at about 2,000 each of those 2 years. The sold nearly 11,000 the very first year. altogether nearly 50,000 of them were built in the 2007-2014 MYs, quite a 2 yr "limited run".

Skid Row Joe

He better not fly in modern airliners, since all controls are by wire. Throttles haven't been mechanical for 2 decades at least in many cars.

NW-99SS

I have a McLeod master now, Spec slave. Sounds like you need a master cylinder brace more than the hydraulics themselves. I would look into Strano performance for one. Your car is the exception for 4th gens, not the rule...when they weren't 20 years old, the hydraulic issue was only found for 1-2 shifts which was quickly remedied by the "drill mod" on the restricted line to the Slave.

Anyway, back on topic.

Michael A

If you are driving your Corvette as a daily driver (or even not as a daily driver), you have to drive it like a sane person. You can't be blasting through your neighborhood, popping it up to the redline, and banging gears with your DCT. You'll have the neighbors at your house when you get home with pitch forks and torches. Try those redline shenanigans in a business district, and see how far you get without a ticket or running over a pedestrian. The best you can hope for is gunning it while getting on a freeway. Even then, if it is rush your, you might get to 30 mph.

The nice thing about a manual is you can enjoy driver engagement and the sports car experience in ordinary driving.