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Careful what you ask for. Tesla certainly isn't the panacea you think it is. Ever see a new Tesla being sold at a discount? Tesla has had more price increases in the past 18 months than any manufacturer.
While they are busy raising their prices, they are producing some of the least reliable vehicles made:
Hard to take any survey serious that has Ram and Dodge rated 1st and 2nd.
Boy do I feel fortunate. In late Feb. of this year my local dealer called and said that they just received an allocation. I drove the two miles to my dealer and gave them a $2000 deposit and chose my color, options, etc. Three months later my car arrives, I pay MSRP with no doc fees and drive home two miles. The C8 is such a great car that I'm even thinking about selling the 66 that just sits in the garage now that the silver coupe is here.
Hard to take any survey serious that has Ram and Dodge rated 1st and 2nd.
Two factors at work there: (1) Dodge has been building the same cars for decades. They've got the manufacturing process down cold. (2) This is just Initial Quality, which relates to #1. It says nothing about how many problems owners will have a year down the road.
Wondering why you don’t say anything negative about your fellow forum members here in the C8 corvette for sale section selling $$$$$ over sticker for a used C8 ??
In my option that’s what started the trend..
Wondering why you don’t say anything negative about your fellow forum members here in the C8 corvette for sale section selling $$$$$ over sticker for a used C8 ??
In my option that’s what started the trend..
Dealers taking advantage of market conditions makes flippers and those who don't want to get in line and wait upset.
Dealers taking advantage of market conditions makes flippers and those who don't want to get in line and wait upset.
Makes Flippers upset, who gives a crap they should be upset! No overhead, local property tax on Showrooms, payroll etc to meet with limited new and used cars available to sell!
Flippers have been active since the start of the C8. Legal BUT scumbags as far as I'm concerned!
Makes Flippers upset, who gives a crap they should be upset! No overhead, local property tax on Showrooms, payroll etc to meet with limited new and used cars available to sell!
Flippers have been active since the start of the C8. Legal BUT scumbags as far as I'm concerned!
Makes Flippers upset, who gives a crap they should be upset! No overhead, local property tax on Showrooms, payroll etc to meet with limited new and used cars available to sell!
Flippers have been active since the start of the C8. Legal BUT scumbags as far as I'm concerned!
So your fine with the dealers making extra money but flippers be damned? So do you believe in free markets or not?
Have you yet heard of a single dealer being penalized by GM for price gouging? At this point it seems like a suggestion, rather than an actual policy with any real teeth. I think this GM announcement has turned out to be a lot less than we had hoped for.
Chevrolet dealers are all independently owned & can charge whatever they choose for cars, however we have the power to walk away from a bad deal
So your fine with the dealers making extra money but flippers be damned? So do you believe in free markets or not?
Originally Posted by floyd66
flipper are the ones who started this. Dealers sold at sticker to the flippers who made $$$.
Appears some don't understand what it costs to operate a business! Let's see city and state property, income tax, actually have to pay folks like those who answer phones and other administrative folks who unlike salesman don't earn a commission. Also, those salesman (and saleswomen or ungendered sales person- don't laugh my toy poodle found out he can self-identify and now he's a Pitbull!)get some benefits you pay even if they don't sell anything because you can't get cars etc.
PS: Nope have no problem with a dealer honestly putting a high price on a car before you buy! They may not get anymore C8 allocations until they are sold but can at least pay a few bills. Recall after waiting 13 months to get mine from Kerbeck I posted a pic on Facebook with how long it took. A freind from CA commented his neighbor got her's in one day from a dealer. She paid $20,000 over MSRP. He said BUT don't feel bad for her she own's 6 McDonalds! Yep some folks can afford to pay and don't want to wait- so beit!
Who said anyone enjoys markups?
I don't and I don't support dealers who add markup to MSRP. I do understand why some do.
What I do is demonstrate a little patience and order from dealer who sells at MSRP.
What I don't do is whine like a child about what some dealers are doing.
You know, I simply asked for information.
I've had 15 corvettes over my life and have ordered plenty of cars.
I have reported that dealer for the excessive mark up - sorry that offends you.
Just asked for information about GM contacts - nothing else.
Thanks but no thanks.
Who said anyone enjoys markups?
I don't and I don't support dealers who add markup to MSRP. I do understand why some do.
What I do is demonstrate a little patience and order from dealer who sells at MSRP.
What I don't do is whine like a child about what some dealers are doing.
Originally Posted by CorvetteRL
You know, I simply asked for information.
I've had 15 corvettes over my life and have ordered plenty of cars. I have reported that dealer for the excessive mark up - sorry that offends you.
Just asked for information about GM contacts - nothing else.
Thanks but no thanks.
You haven't offended me at all.
I was just pointing out to you that if you want a C8 it's much more productive to either decide to purchase one off dealer lot and pay what it costs, or be patience waiting 10-12 months to purchase one at MSRP.
Whining on a forum and reporting a dealer to GM for not selling a C8 that the dealer owns to you at MSRP is not productive and will not get you C8.
Makes Flippers upset, who gives a crap they should be upset! No overhead, local property tax on Showrooms, payroll etc to meet with limited new and used cars available to sell!
Flippers have been active since the start of the C8. Legal BUT scumbags as far as I'm concerned!
Not sure why it's any more or less scumbag than a dealer adding ADM or a bunch of overpriced "packages." Regardless of the cost to operated a dealership, both are the free market and supply and demand at work. I don't like either, but both are free market capitalism.
Oh, and dealer profits are up tremendously during this shortage of cars for sale. They're not discounting anything, often adding ADM, selling used cars at incredible markups, getting more service business as people keep their older cars, and reducing costs by cutting staff. They don't need as many salesmen, F&I people, or admin staff when they're not selling as many cars.
With so many articles discussing how poor automotive sales have been through 2021, one could be forgiven for thinking this was going to be a hard year for anybody owning a dealership. However, the reality of the matter is that it’s a seller’s market and those who can sell are making a killing off everyone else’s misery.
The National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA) has reported that the ongoing deficit of product has helped the average store rake in more money than they did in 2020, breaking the previous twelve-month profitability record. Today’s average dealership is reporting a net pretax profit of about $3.38 million through October for 2021. That’s more than twice what was tallied within the same timeframe last year and really goes to show how much money can be made when the customer’s needs are the only items being discounted.
Last edited by Red Mist Rulz; 06-30-2022 at 04:12 PM.
Have you yet heard of a single dealer being penalized by GM for price gouging? At this point it seems like a suggestion, rather than an actual policy with any real teeth. I think this GM announcement has turned out to be a lot less than we had hoped for.
There have been some (not many, but some) reports of GM forcing dealers to refund ADM in cases where they changed the deal at the last minute, or forced the buyer into overpriced options that weren't disclosed at the time of order. There's little GM can do to regulate the price a dealer charges as long as they're up front about it. Every state in the nation has laws that greatly favor dealers over manufacturers and limit GM's ability to interfere with what is an independent business. Auto dealers are major contributors to state political campaigns, and the NADA has a very effective lobbying arm. GM can reduce allocations to dealers that "overcharge," but we'll never know if they do. And for most dealers, making an extra $20 or $30K on a few sales will be a lot more profitable than what they'd make at MSRP on even twice as many sales.
If GM wanted to do something about flippers they have the power. As far as I know, there is no law that says a car manufacturer has to provide a warranty. GM could limit the warranty to the original purchaser like a lot of companies do. They could make a caveat that allows the original purchaser to transfer the warranty after a year or some period of time.
This was an article re what GM told dealer's they would do: Jan 22, 2022 From GM North America President Steve Carlisle, "Unfortunately, it has come to our attention that in connection with some of these announcements and launches, a small number of Dealers have engaged in practices that do not support a positive sales experience for our customers. This puts our collective interest at risk and generates negative press that reflect poorly on GM’s brands and your dealerships.
Specifically, it has come to our attention that some dealerships have attempted to demand money above and beyond the reservation amounts set in GM’s program rules and/or have requested customers to pay sums far in excess of MSRP in order to purchase or lease a vehicle."
"GM will be forced to take action if it learns of any unethical sales practices or brokering activities that undermine the integrity that customers expect from the Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac brands. For the small minority of bad actors that are engaging in the conduct identified above, this letter serves as a notice that GM reserves the right to redirect your vehicle allocation or take other recourse prescribed by the Dealer Sales and Service Agreement."
There has been addition info that GM knows the inventory of new cars at dealers. In fact that is how they suggest every order period (every two weeks for all but C8's) what a dealer should purchase. The program looks at their past sales of Silverado's, Camaro's etc etc and what they currently have in inventory. It suggests what they should order. Allocation like for C8s is factored into those recommendations. Dealer does not have to accept the recommendations but is there for consideration. They have said dealer's with inventory of C8s for sale (as all the large Vette dealers have none, only customer cars waiting to be delivered) they are limiting allocations. It was mentioned because of the very high C8 demand, inventory reflects a high asking price! This is NOT rocket science! It's easy for GM and a computer to do.
Some think GM doesn't care but that is foolish! First for the C8, Ciocca, the largest Vette seller, and the top 4 or 5 others could sell every C8 instantly that GM does not allocate to bad actors. They have ~12 month backlogs. I know of one instance where it happened but I'm sure there are others. GM is not going to advertise or supply a list!
In my 40+ years selling through distributors we were careful when we leveraged them to buy a particular product where they were predominantly selling a competitors offering. We did it "carefully." Word got around through the dealer network BUT not directly from us! Frankly one reason my current Internet business only sells direct! There are some distributors who sell our product to some of there industrial gas customers. BUT their price is exactly what we would sell a fabricator. We have no distributor contracts, discounts etc
06-29-2022, 04:30 PM
Chevrolet dealers are all independently owned & can charge whatever they choose for cars, however we have the power to walk away from a bad deal
