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Yea people like that need to find a 60s muscle car with those narrow bias ply tires and straight out exhaust to take full speed up a narrow mountain canyon, there is a difference between exhilaration and sheer terror, although either will really get the adrenaline going.
Yeah, the same point I was making in an earlier post. If you came from the muscle car era where everything performance was in a straight line, then the GT concept is going to miss the mark.
It's always been that way, and is today. Today's cars make 60-70's muscle car performance look pathetic. There are family haulers that are faster, 0-60.
The majority of people who enjoy driving have always been more interested in straight-line performance than they are in corner-carving. 0-60 time is the most prominent statistic used in advertising.
When I finished school, and earned enough money to purchase toys, the muscle car era was over in terms of new cars, but a lot of used ones were available. I passed over them in favor of small, lightweight, and nimble sports cars, and have stayed in that lane exclusively.
I definitely hear you. My ZL1 is an M6. In my opinion, the Tremec 6060 is the best manual transmission out there. The gearing is just about perfect in all six gears.
I've said it so many times, the DCT in the C8 is my biggest disappointment with the car. First and second gear shift way too early. If you have a Z51 C8 there are three shifts from 0-60. Non-Z51 do two shifts. I can run my M6 ZL1 all the way to 62 mph in first gear. Watch the ZL1 1LE video around the Nurburgring. Bill Wise spends 75% of the lap in 3rd or 4th gear. Right in the engine's peak powerband. In contrast, the C8 is in 6th gear by 38 mph if you let the computer do the shifting unless you're in track mode.
When tracking a C8 you should only be using 3rd and 4th as well. At Fellows used 3 and 4.
When the 2014 C7 was introduced, Tadge Juechter said IF the volumes don't significantly increase from what the C6 has been selling it will be the end of the Corvette! Loved my 2014 Z51 and my 2017 Grand Sport. But no comparison to the ME C8 with its DCT!
Nope even my C7 Grand Sport, considered one of the best handling Vettes ever could not achieve this 1.3 peak "gs!"
My C8 Z51, MRC recently hit 1.3 peak 'gs' in my favorite turn, no homes, people, often no other cars with farm fields both sides!
Heck even Dr. Porsche knew the engine should be in the middle from his 1930 German F1 car days. Where Zora got the idea working for Dr. Porsche in Europe. He always pushed for an ME Vette. When he started to work for GM in 1954 they let him race an ME Porsche at Le Mans!
You are comparing late C6 production to early C8 production. It couldn't possibly be more apples to oranges than that.
I don't need to discuss performance increases over the previous generation. ALL new generations of Corvette have outperformed their predecessors, this isn't a new phenomenon.
I've said it so many times, the DCT in the C8 is my biggest disappointment with the car. First and second gear shift way too early. If you have a Z51 C8 there are three shifts from 0-60. Non-Z51 do two shifts. I can run my M6 ZL1 all the way to 62 mph in first gear. Watch the ZL1 1LE video around the Nurburgring. Bill Wise spends 75% of the lap in 3rd or 4th gear. Right in the engine's peak powerband. In contrast, the C8 is in 6th gear by 38 mph if you let the computer do the shifting unless you're in track mode.
Originally Posted by gliot1
When tracking a C8 you should only be using 3rd and 4th as well. At Fellows used 3 and 4.
Unless the rear ratios have changed, the 2022 C 8 non-Z51 diff ratio is 4:89 to1 and with a red line of 6600 RPM first gear top speed is 38 MPH and sec0nd gear top speed is 62 MPH.
With a 2022 C8 Z51 the diff ratio is 5:17 to 1 and with the same red line of 6600 RPM first gear top speed is 36 MPH and second gear top speed is 58 MPH.
Unless you count shifting into first gear as the first shift then 0-60 in a C8 non Z51 only takes 1 shift at 38 MPH to be able to reach 60 MPH
Unless you count shifting into first gear as the first shift then 0-60 in a C8 Z51 only takes 2 shift one at 36 MPH and another one at 58 MPH to be able to reach 60 MPH
I took delivery of my C8 almost exactly two years ago (8/11/21). Now after 11,949 miles of various types of trips (except track driving), I find that unless I push it beyond the limits of my previous sports cars (Datsun 240Z and Mazda RX-7), the C8 is much less entertaining and engaging than the previous cars. But I do appreciate the refinement and effortlessness of driving the C8 near “my limits” when I’m in a less than ultimate thrill-seeking mood.
Some here have said the C8 is a good touring car. It really is very comfortable to drive for 12 hours or more a day at slightly above interstate speeds, but excessive tire rumble at high speeds masks the performance of the 2LT’s excellent audio system and makes conversations less enjoyable.
Since my C8 has become almost exclusively a weekend car and less enjoyed as a weekend tourer, I’ve decided that it’s too expensive for me to keep just as a locally used weekend toy. So, before depreciation becomes a real factor, I ’m considering selling the C8, and buying a Mazda MX-5 Miata as a weekend toy and a Lexus ES350 to use as a quiet “touring car.”
I daily drove my Honda S2000 for about a decade (still own it, now approaching 16 years), before I bought a beater and the S2000 got regulated to the fun car that only sees sunlight twice a week or so. Now its slowly turning into a track car now that I own a C8.
The C8 feels much more isolated and more of a GT car. With the DCT, feels a little more "boring" too even though it has double the power. Still like the C8 a lot, but its just....well.....different... Yes, I have tracked both the C8 and S2000. I will keep the C8 and it will probably be converted into a track car in 10 years.
Variety is the spice of life. There has been a few times I thought of selling the C8 and picking up an ND2 MX-5. But two convertibles in the garage don't make sense. Glad to own two sports cars of entirely different spectrums. Maybe an F430 Scuderia is one of the best "raw" and hardcore mid-rear engine cars?
You are comparing late C6 production to early C8 production. It couldn't possibly be more apples to oranges than that.
I don't need to discuss performance increases over the previous generation. ALL new generations of Corvette have outperformed their predecessors, this isn't a new phenomenon.
It was Tadge Juechter who said when the C7 was introduced, (~January 2019) that if it didn't sell more than the C6, the Corvette would cease to exist. He was probably referring to those 5 years of poor sales (~13,000 average for the 5 years after I got my 2008 C6, is low enough for GM to pull the plug! Can't run a viable business operating at ~25% plant capacity.)
I ordered myC7 as soon as the Lauch in the Detroit Auto Show when few were offering (in writing) at MSRP, whatever it would be as pricing was months away! Sure early Model years are higher volume demand BUT for my 2017 Grand Sport only 3 years into the C7 with "winter pricing" Kerbeck (with GM help) was offering deep discounts. Bought mine, as all 6 Vettes, made just for me in BG at ~15% discount. In that case had it Courtesy Delivered to a dealer 30 minutes from my home (who also did CD on my C8 for the same $350.)
Wanted to come back here, and declare I was wrong. Got the chance to do mountain roads a week ago, and my docile and "driving on a cloud" comfortable grand touring C8 turned into an absolute beast. Throttle pedal length is longer than my 911, but once I got used to that, and trusted the car more, it was doing turns that my 911 would struggle on with ease. Although comfortable over bumps and "floaty" (non Z51 no mag-ride) compared to my modified 911, the car stayed flat and planted around the corners. Speed is very linear, but it beat my '09 C4S soundly in EVERY MEASURABLE METRIC. Looks like I need to recalibrate my butt dyno.
Wanted to come back here, and declare I was wrong. Got the chance to do mountain roads a week ago, and my docile and "driving on a cloud" comfortable grand touring C8 turned into an absolute beast. Throttle pedal length is longer than my 911, but once I got used to that, and trusted the car more, it was doing turns that my 911 would struggle on with ease. Although comfortable over bumps and "floaty" (non Z51 no mag-ride) compared to my modified 911, the car stayed flat and planted around the corners. Speed is very linear, but it beat my '09 C4S soundly in EVERY MEASURABLE METRIC. Looks like I need to recalibrate my butt dyno.
Good for you! I live in a rural area and have several twisty roads near my house that my wife hated when we would go for rides on them in my C7. Right after I got the C8 home I took her for a ride on one of them. She groaned when we got on it but relaxed as we drove its 28 mile length. She liked the ride - it’s full of horse farms on either side of it most of the way. When we got home I asked her if she realized that we were going 10-15MPH faster in the curves she hated in my C7. She didn’t!
Good for you! I live in a rural area and have several twisty roads near my house that my wife hated when we would go for rides on them in my C7. Right after I got the C8 home I took her for a ride on one of them. She groaned when we got on it but relaxed as we drove its 28 mile length. She liked the ride - it’s full of horse farms on either side of it most of the way. When we got home I asked her if she realized that we were going 10-15MPH faster in the curves she hated in my C7. She didn’t!
You may need to share that route with me. Looks like we are neighbors. Sandy Springs here, North Atlanta.
Hello! I've put down 1000 miles in my C8 and while its an incredible grand tourer, it feels like it's soulless compared to prior corvettes and muscle cars I've had. Scat Pack, ZL1, SS 1LE...
Anyone else get this feeling? I just cant shake the feeling that its missing something.
Get a DSC tuner. It dramatically changed the way my car handles. One of the best $1300 I spent.
You may need to share that route with me. Looks like we are neighbors. Sandy Springs here, North Atlanta.
I’m halfway between Cartersville and Dallas. It would be closer and quite frankly a prettier drive for you to hop on 400 North and go to the mountains! You can avoid I-285 and I-75 too.
Took a thrilling ride yesterday through the twisted in the mountains. Incredible control, carved like a knife through butter. DCT is amazing. Toggled from Z mode/Track. Love this car.
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21
Originally Posted by vrhaines
Hello! I've put down 1000 miles in my C8 and while its an incredible grand tourer, it feels like it's soulless compared to prior corvettes and muscle cars I've had. Scat Pack, ZL1, SS 1LE...
Anyone else get this feeling? I just cant shake the feeling that its missing something.
I might be repeating what others have said in reaction to your OP, but you are comparing the C8 to cars that are not in its category.
To your point, I agree that the C8 is more of a grand tourer than a raw, analog (or closer to analog) sports car. If you want that kind of car, the C8 is not what you should have bought.
The C8 Z06 might be closer to what you are looking for, but good luck acquiring one without waiting a while for it and without paying considerably more than MSRP.
What exactly did you expect from the C8 Stingray?
What do you think is missing? I am genuinely curious.
Wanted to come back here, and declare I was wrong. Got the chance to do mountain roads a week ago, and my docile and "driving on a cloud" comfortable grand touring C8 turned into an absolute beast. Throttle pedal length is longer than my 911, but once I got used to that, and trusted the car more, it was doing turns that my 911 would struggle on with ease. Although comfortable over bumps and "floaty" (non Z51 no mag-ride) compared to my modified 911, the car stayed flat and planted around the corners. Speed is very linear, but it beat my '09 C4S soundly in EVERY MEASURABLE METRIC. Looks like I need to recalibrate my butt dyno.
If only you had a Z51 with MSRC and PTM!
There are a couple HPDE instructors out there that are 911 fan boys, and the consensus seems to be that the C8 Z51 and Z06/Z07 are very capable on the track and a real steal for the price you pay.
It's a heavy car and upgrading brakes is often suggested (not sure if that applies for the models with CCB's, and that will make the ERay an interesting prospect given that it comes with CCB's).
Some also suggest upgrading the shocks/suspension, but that isn't an option if you have the hydraulic front end lift as far as I know.
CUP2R tires or better help out, but the one thing you can't get past with the Z51 is the power just drops out at 80+ MPH. So on a smaller track with some mid-level speed straightaways, the C8 is a beast, on a higher speed track, the P-Cars are gonna take you...unless maybe you are driving the Z07 with more aggressive aero and CCBs.
It was Tadge Juechter who said when the C7 was introduced, (~January 2019) that if it didn't sell more than the C6, the Corvette would cease to exist. He was probably referring to those 5 years of poor sales (~13,000 average for the 5 years after I got my 2008 C6, is low enough for GM to pull the plug! Can't run a viable business operating at ~25% plant capacity.)
I ordered myC7 as soon as the Lauch in the Detroit Auto Show when few were offering (in writing) at MSRP, whatever it would be as pricing was months away! Sure early Model years are higher volume demand BUT for my 2017 Grand Sport only 3 years into the C7 with "winter pricing" Kerbeck (with GM help) was offering deep discounts. Bought mine, as all 6 Vettes, made just for me in BG at ~15% discount. In that case had it Courtesy Delivered to a dealer 30 minutes from my home (who also did CD on my C8 for the same $350.)
No discounts on current C8's or my planned E-Ray!
I already addressed the vast difference in total production for the C7 first 3 MYs vs the C8. Another apples to oranges comparison for total production volume via production constraints with the C8.
Funny, I got rid of my C6 ZR1 shortly after getting the C8, but then I also just picked up a C4 ZR-1. The only place I really feel the C6 ZR1 is better is for highway rolls and top end. Of course part of it is also where you live, if were were still in DFW are, I'd probably have kept the ZR1 as there was a lot of highway driving at high speeds where I could enjoy it. Being in Omaha now, it takes maybe 15 minutes from one side of the city to the other.
Back to the OP's question/comment, there are a couple of things that can make a big difference, one that costs money and one that's free:
The free one is to drive the C8 in manual mode 100% of the time. I drove the C8 for a couple of months only using manual when I wanted to play, and like you started to feel that it was a little boring. A great car, but not as engaging as I wanted. I then tried using Z-Mode all the time (with shifts set to track), and that helped, but still wasn't giving me what I wanted. I then decided to use manual shift mode all the time, and bingo, that was exactly what I needed. While different from the experience of a stick/clutch manual, the paddle shift manual mode is very engaging & enjoyable, while being a slightly different experience. Using it 100% of the time keeps you much more engaged with driving the car and thinking about what you're doing. Even the occasional issue of having to plan around when/how to shift when making a sharp (i.e. 90-degree) turn from a stop makes it more engaging. The only time I use auto mode anymore is if I want to do max acceleration runs or if I want to either engage V4 mode for highway cruising or just want to veg while cruising on the highway on a trip.
The one that costs money is the exhaust. The factory NPP is just a little too quiet at part throttle and mid-rpm. It's fine at full throttle and upper rpms, but while I don't want drone at cruising speeds, I do want to hear it above 3000rpm. Unfortunately for me, the wife doesn't want me to do an exhaust upgrade on the C8 (she tolerated the Corsa Xtreme on the C6 ZR1), so instead of buying an exhaust for the C8, I bought a C4 ZR-1 with long tube, no cats, B&B exhaust and aftermarket cams.
You are spot on. The factory exhaust robs the experience - NPP is way too quiet. Spend a few extra bucks to replace and it will transform the car. I completely agree with driving in manual mode. When you upgrade the exhaust, manual mode will ensure you hear a symphony of incredible exhaust sounds.
The other item I item I highly recommend is getting a throttle controller. For less than $200 a throttle controller will tranform the responsiveness of the car.
I initially felt the same way with the C8. After swapping out the exhaust and installing a throttle controller the car has truly been transformed.
08-10-2023, 11:39 AM
