C8 will be AWD
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2008
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Base model Corvettes have been priced similar to high end Camaros going back to at least the C5. The C5 FRC started right at about $38k, while the same year Camaro SS could get to the mid-high 30's depending on options.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Texas
What makes no sense? It's exactly what's happening w/ the C7 and Camaro today and makes perfect sense. Base Camaros start at $26K and go to $70K. Base C7s start at $56K, and go to $130K+.
Moreover, 4-seaters have a much broader appeal such as to young families with young kids who want something "sporty."
Moreover, 4-seaters have a much broader appeal such as to young families with young kids who want something "sporty."
Intermediate
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Team Owner
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And yet you can price a Challenger from $26k all the way out past $100k, at which point it will eat the Camaro alive. No, it makes more sense to move the Vette upscale and give the Camaro room to grow. I mean, what's the cheapest mid engined super car right now? Off the top of my head, it's probably the Audi R8, right? That's the market segment I'd be targeting if I were GM.
Moreover, it's risky. There's no guarantee buyers of McLaren, high-end Porsche 911s, Audi R8, or Ferrari will have any interest in a high dollar Corvette. I'm certain that strategy would be a massive flop and a financial disaster.
GM is only going to sell about 2K ZR1s in a year starting at $130K. That right there tells you something about the size of the high-dollar Corvette market. However, since it's just a derivative of a car that starts at $55K, and they've sold more than 100K base C7s during the run, it doesn't add significant incremental cost to produce it using the C7 supply chain.
There will be a high-end ME, but the financial case only makes sense if it's positioned like the ZR1 at the top of the heap of lower-end, "budget" models of which they will sell 30K or so a year, minimum.
Last edited by Foosh; Dec 27, 2018 at 04:18 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Texas
But, the whole point is the market you're referring to is a TINY market, precisely because of high cost. GM doesn't target tiny markets.
Moreover, it's risky. There's no guarantee buyers of McLaren, high-end Porsche 911s, Audi R8, or Ferrari will have any interest in a high dollar Corvette. I'm certain that strategy would be a massive flop and a financial disaster.
GM is only going to sell about 2K ZR1s in a year starting at $130K. That right there tells you something about the size of the high-dollar Corvette market. However, since it's just a derivative of a car that starts at $55K, and they've sold more than 100K base C7s during the run, it doesn't add significant incremental cost to produce it using the C7 supply chain.
There will be a high-end ME, but the financial case only makes sense if it's positioned like the ZR1 at the top of the heap of lower-end, "budget" models of which they will sell 30K or so a year, minimum.
Moreover, it's risky. There's no guarantee buyers of McLaren, high-end Porsche 911s, Audi R8, or Ferrari will have any interest in a high dollar Corvette. I'm certain that strategy would be a massive flop and a financial disaster.
GM is only going to sell about 2K ZR1s in a year starting at $130K. That right there tells you something about the size of the high-dollar Corvette market. However, since it's just a derivative of a car that starts at $55K, and they've sold more than 100K base C7s during the run, it doesn't add significant incremental cost to produce it using the C7 supply chain.
There will be a high-end ME, but the financial case only makes sense if it's positioned like the ZR1 at the top of the heap of lower-end, "budget" models of which they will sell 30K or so a year, minimum.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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LOL . . . That comparison is ridiculous. The FGT was never a profit center, never mass-produced, and Ford has never developed a profitable 2-seat sports car. It was always just a marketing and racing campaign after the Henry Ford II v. Enzo Ferrari battles of the 60's where Ford won LeMans 4 years in a row. It never would have happened had Enzo not publicly humiliated Henry by refusing to go through with the Ferrari sale to Ford. Henry's retaliation was to shell out $400 million to develop a new race car just to punish Enzo, which he ultimately did.
It is reported that Ford is losing money or barely breaking even on every FGT it produces. Ford has built under 3000 FGTs in more than 50 years of on and off dabbling with the concept. Meanwhile Corvette has sold approximately 2 million since 1953.
There is no comparison. Corvette has had the American 2-seat sports car market to all to itself for the better part of 60+ years, and it has been incredibly profitable. GM would be purposely giving up a profit center for nothing more than bragging rights. Rational companies don't do that.
It is reported that Ford is losing money or barely breaking even on every FGT it produces. Ford has built under 3000 FGTs in more than 50 years of on and off dabbling with the concept. Meanwhile Corvette has sold approximately 2 million since 1953.
There is no comparison. Corvette has had the American 2-seat sports car market to all to itself for the better part of 60+ years, and it has been incredibly profitable. GM would be purposely giving up a profit center for nothing more than bragging rights. Rational companies don't do that.
Last edited by Foosh; Dec 28, 2018 at 10:30 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,249
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From: Land of the free, home of the brave...
Confirmed by reliable source.....
The top of the line C8 will have AWD, powered by a 12 cylinder mid-engine, a tubine front engine and nuclear powered rear engine.
My grandmother's friend has a cousin who works in the diner across from the site where GM garbage is dumped confirmed this after the diner's cook found a scrap of paper that blew across the road and on to his windshield with all this info on it.
And that's a fact Jack.
My grandmother's friend has a cousin who works in the diner across from the site where GM garbage is dumped confirmed this after the diner's cook found a scrap of paper that blew across the road and on to his windshield with all this info on it.
And that's a fact Jack.
Banned Scam/Spammer
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Springfield MO
LOL . . . That comparison is ridiculous. The FGT was never a profit center, never mass-produced, and Ford has never developed a profitable 2-seat sports car. It was always just a marketing and racing campaign after the Henry Ford II v. Enzo Ferrari battles of the 60's where Ford won LeMans 4 years in a row. It never would have happened had Enzo not publicly humiliated Henry by refusing to go through with the Ferrari sale to Ford. Henry's retaliation was to shell out $400 million to develop a new race car just to punish Enzo, which he ultimately did.
It is reported that Ford is losing money or barely breaking even on every FGT it produces. Ford has built under 3000 FGTs in more than 50 years of on and off dabbling with the concept. Meanwhile Corvette has sold approximately 2 million since 1953.
There is no comparison. Corvette has had the American 2-seat sports car market to all to itself for the better part of 60+ years, and it has been incredibly profitable. GM would be purposely giving up a profit center for nothing more than bragging rights. Rational companies don't do that.
It is reported that Ford is losing money or barely breaking even on every FGT it produces. Ford has built under 3000 FGTs in more than 50 years of on and off dabbling with the concept. Meanwhile Corvette has sold approximately 2 million since 1953.
There is no comparison. Corvette has had the American 2-seat sports car market to all to itself for the better part of 60+ years, and it has been incredibly profitable. GM would be purposely giving up a profit center for nothing more than bragging rights. Rational companies don't do that.
1955...……
Thunderbird------16,155 sold,
Corvette---------------700 sold
1956...……
Thunderbird------15,631 sold
Corvette-------------3,467 sold
1957...….
Thunderbird------21,380 sold
Corvette------------6,339 sold
.
Last edited by JoesC5; Dec 28, 2018 at 02:54 PM.
Team Owner
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LOL . . . yes, and the T-Bird was dropped very quickly as a two seater after 3 MYs. Hmmm . . . wonder why. Ford wasn't happy with the results and abandoned that market. GM persisted and the rest is history.
You're talking 61 YEARS AGO. Really, I mean really? If that's your definition of a successful 2-seat sports car, where has it been for all these years?
You're talking 61 YEARS AGO. Really, I mean really? If that's your definition of a successful 2-seat sports car, where has it been for all these years?
Last edited by Foosh; Dec 28, 2018 at 05:05 PM.
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
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AWD has the nasty habits of both front and rear wheel drive. Every HPDE student has sat through at least one classroom presentation on the friction circle and the grip limitations of tires. A tire has only so much grip. That grip can be used for cornering, braking or acceleration. If you combine cornering and braking the grip has to be shared between the two, if you combine cornering and acceleration that grip has to be shared between the two. Power out of a corner with AWD and the front end will understeer similar to what a FWD car does because you are sharing cornering with acceleration. If you aren't driving at the limit of the front tires grip level you may not notice the understeer but once you get on that limit you will find AWD may limit the amount of power that can be applied when powering off the apex of a corner.
Bill
Bill
I also read something a while back about GM getting a trade mark on the name E-ray. May or may not be related to this thread.
Nick
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 232
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From: Oakland CA
Must of hit a nerve “when” it goes into production, its is the fastest production car 0 to 60 1.9 seconds and I belive its the model S is rather quick.
JUST SAYING.
Its OK I still love the Vette
JUST SAYING.
Its OK I still love the Vette
Last edited by Jimp94605; Dec 28, 2018 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Spelling
Drifting
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Profoundly incorrect on multiple counts. Camaro models do NOT open up @ $60K. The only Camaro up in that range are models that would be parallel to the Z06 and ZR1 Corvettes.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Houston, TX
Honda's biggest problem with their mid engine sports cars is that they never produced one with a V8!
Also, when they were planning for the first NSX, they commissioned a design study from Pininfarina. It was simply amazing, but instead of using it, they produced their own, so-so design.
Also, when they were planning for the first NSX, they commissioned a design study from Pininfarina. It was simply amazing, but instead of using it, they produced their own, so-so design.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2017
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My point is that I believe that the majority of Americans believe that a mid engine sports car should have a V-8 engine at a minimum. Especially when the car in question costs over $80K.
Besides, GOD told me that he/she doesn't like V-6s.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 854
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From: Florida
1. The T Bird was advertised as a personal luxury car and focused on luxurious features, whereas the Corvette was much more performance-focused.
2. The Corvette’s Base MSRP back in 1957 was about equal to the MSRP of a fully optioned T Bird.
