Mid-Engine only
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,494
Likes: 703
From: Raleigh, NC
Agreed, but the OP stated it as a fact: "there are so many hard core long time Corvette owners that are not sold on a mid-engine". Nowhere did he indicate that statement was just his opinion or how he felt. On the other hand, I stated how I felt (my opinion). It is clear that my statements were my opinion, not stated as "fact".
On any fan site when a new generation comes out the moans about it being hideous or it just sucks compared to generation XX is very strong. Lots turn out to be the last buyers of the outgoing generation or people who can't afford to move to the new car.
Nothing new, back in the 1950's into the 1970's you could recognize the model year of any car just by looking at it. It was a love/hate relationship on people with a 3 year buy cycle.
Instructor
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 231
Likes: 163
From: Michigan
The biggest risk is making it look good with the engine in the back. With front engine cars looks are easy. With rear engine cars it is very difficult to do. If the car looks good and comes with a manual trans I will buy it. If there is no manual trans I move on to something else.
Last edited by RedMercy; May 29, 2019 at 10:29 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 2,520
Likes: 1,170
From: Northern Wisconsin
Yup. I've long preferred the long front end look, epitomized by the Jaguar E type, but am now favoring the mid engine look. FE has started to look old and dated to me, and I am 68 years old. It is human nature to resist change, even if it is for the better.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 935
Likes: 225
One simply needs to look at the worldwide GM trademarks for the C8. I believe there is an untapped worldwide customer base for a well priced performance ME.
Think beyond your local showroom.
Think beyond your local showroom.
Last edited by dfettero; May 29, 2019 at 11:19 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 1,778
From: North Texas
There have been a few other mid-engine cars that didn't actually handle that well. So just going ME doesn't automatically mean it will handle better. I'm sure Chevy won't screw it up, but Chevy has done some stupid things in the past as we all know.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
Its a given that some hard core Corvette owners don't want a change. The key question Chevy marketing had to answer is what is "many". Personally think the "many" that will not buy a ME Corvette is not all that much in the universe of potential buyers.
On any fan site when a new generation comes out the moans about it being hideous or it just sucks compared to generation XX is very strong. Lots turn out to be the last buyers of the outgoing generation or people who can't afford to move to the new car.
Nothing new, back in the 1950's into the 1970's you could recognize the model year of any car just by looking at it. It was a love/hate relationship on people with a 3 year buy cycle.
On any fan site when a new generation comes out the moans about it being hideous or it just sucks compared to generation XX is very strong. Lots turn out to be the last buyers of the outgoing generation or people who can't afford to move to the new car.
Nothing new, back in the 1950's into the 1970's you could recognize the model year of any car just by looking at it. It was a love/hate relationship on people with a 3 year buy cycle.
GM obviously projected it would attract more than enough to offset some loss of the loyal base. We'll see. I have no doubts there's still some nervousness about how well this car will do.
Last edited by Foosh; May 29, 2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
I think it may be more than you think. The combination of no manual, higher starting price (albeit most likely not crazy higher), and those who just won't like the look, among other factors could be in excess of 10% or more. The real question GM had to think about is how many new buyers they would attract. 10% of what they project to be 40K cars annually is of concern and only 1-2 manufacturers sell more than 4K sports cars in the US annually. GM obviously projected it would attract more than enough to offset some loss of the loyal base.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 1,778
From: North Texas
I think Chevy is banking on converting some Porsche buyers. And/or those who are buying used Ferraris/McLarens and the like. Time will tell if that works.
The slightly higher price point I think will have a much lower impact than the lack of a manual, or possibly a polarizing look, and we have to remember the golf fanatics out there. For me, the biggest holdup (baring horrible looks) is the manual.
The slightly higher price point I think will have a much lower impact than the lack of a manual, or possibly a polarizing look, and we have to remember the golf fanatics out there. For me, the biggest holdup (baring horrible looks) is the manual.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 14,492
Likes: 549
From: Dallas, TX
I think they should appeal to younger buyers as well, but let's face it; the percentage of that demographic that's in the life position and income to buy a Corvette is likely in the low single digits.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
GM also "projected" that they would pickup more European buyers when they designed the C6. It didn't happen. Sometimes a manufacture's "projections" are wrong. Ford spent 2 billion dollars on the 2nd gen Taurus. They "projected" that it would sell as well as the "obsolete" 1st gen as it had a "new" modern styling. They were wrong as sales fell 33% in the first year. Then Ford spend a bunch more money redesigning the rear window and then sales picked back up.
Last edited by Foosh; May 29, 2019 at 12:37 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,494
Likes: 703
From: Raleigh, NC
Obviously, projections are often wrong. As a generally brand agnostic person, who's owned at least one of every single make of the respected German brands, as well as 4 Corvettes (2 C6 and 2 C7), I would have been a prime candidate for a C8. However, no manual takes me out.
Big issue with MT is the lack of MT driver coming up into the income demographic to purchase the car. On the other side of the demographic is us old farts. Thankfully I have no physical issues against driving an MT still have 3 on the driveway.
That said my 60th high school Reunion would suggest not many of the former "car guys" can still deal with one.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; May 29, 2019 at 01:23 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32,295
Likes: 4,625
I always believed that when the rumors started about the new Mid-Engine Corvette, that GM/Chevrolet would ease into it. I was thinking that it would be released as a special edition/model C7. After all, the C7 has only been out 5 years. Also the front of the mid-engine has a lot of the ZR1 look. That also brings up the point that all the work and engineering for a 1 year run of the ZR1 seems strange. there are so many hard core long time Corvette owners that are not sold on a mid-engine. Will they lose many of the their long time repeat buyers. I realize many of us are getting up there in age and GM is looking to the younger generation, but I am not sold that they will flock to the showrooms to grab one simply because it is all new. The C7 was designed for the younger generation yet almost all I see are driving my the older generation.
Just sitting here thinking which I realize is not a good idea many times.
Just sitting here thinking which I realize is not a good idea many times.
The younger generations for the most part won't be able to afford a new C8, much less a new C7 - regardless. They buy used last generation C-Series or even 2 or 3 generations back Corvettes.
I'm good with what I've got, (new C7) but always curious to learn of the latest generation new C-Series, to see if I want to buy one. Doesn't matter where the engine is to me.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 83
Likes: 23
It's also a fact that I'm not able to drive my front engine C6 Z06 to it's maximum capabilities as it is so being able to pull an additional .02g's around a 300' skid pad means nothing to me.
How many of us "hardcore long time Corvette owners" do you think drive our Corvettes at 10/10's on a nice Sunday afternoon drive in the countryside or an a two week road trip? Have you ever driven the Tail of the Dragon at 10/10's with your "old lady" in the passenger seat with a terrible headache from the constant side to side whipping of her head?
When I drive any of my four cars, I'm watching the traffic 100-200 feet in front of me. Being able to see if a penny is heads up or tails up that is on the pavement 6" in front of my car when I'm driving 80 MPH on the Interstate doesn't mean ****. Seeing that idiot swerve into my lane 100' in front of me is what I'm watching for, so I can take evasive action. Not being able to see a penny that is 6" in front of my front bumper doesn't' mean **** to me.
Maybe you should read up about the age of Corvette owners. Most of us are "old timers" and a mid engine Corvette brings nothing new to the table. Change for the sake of change is money wasted in my opinion.
How many of us "hardcore long time Corvette owners" do you think drive our Corvettes at 10/10's on a nice Sunday afternoon drive in the countryside or an a two week road trip? Have you ever driven the Tail of the Dragon at 10/10's with your "old lady" in the passenger seat with a terrible headache from the constant side to side whipping of her head?
When I drive any of my four cars, I'm watching the traffic 100-200 feet in front of me. Being able to see if a penny is heads up or tails up that is on the pavement 6" in front of my car when I'm driving 80 MPH on the Interstate doesn't mean ****. Seeing that idiot swerve into my lane 100' in front of me is what I'm watching for, so I can take evasive action. Not being able to see a penny that is 6" in front of my front bumper doesn't' mean **** to me.
Maybe you should read up about the age of Corvette owners. Most of us are "old timers" and a mid engine Corvette brings nothing new to the table. Change for the sake of change is money wasted in my opinion.
This is not change for the sake of change. Change can be good or bad, but the Corvette must evolve, and if GM wants the Corvette to play on another level, it needs the chassis to do so. They already said that they maxed out the FE chassis (the ZR1 is torque monster that isn’t putting the power down). Even Porsche went mid engined with its 911 based race car, twice. Once with the 911 GT1, and currently with the RSR in GTLM.
your attitude is the similar to what has almost killed Harley Davidson. Refusing to adapt and evolve, and primarily catering to Baby Boomers yet not thinking about attracting younger generations to the brand, and screwing over Erik Buell, and now Harley is floundering.
Last edited by Stoplight; May 29, 2019 at 10:17 PM.
Racer
Joined: May 2016
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Instructor
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 102
Likes: 47
Why not both?
In the 60's, Ferrari began selling mid-engine sports cars, despite strong objection by "Il Commentadore." Today, Ferrari sells mid-engine sports cars and "hypercars," but also sells super-expensive V-8 and V-12 GT's.
If you consider the tooling costs associated with the current generation of Corvette, it would be financially stupid to cease production of the C7 and pivot 100% to the ME architecture.
Then again, Maria Barra has shown no compunction in shutting down historic U.S. factories so GM can invest in socially-correct electric cars. So what do I know.
If you consider the tooling costs associated with the current generation of Corvette, it would be financially stupid to cease production of the C7 and pivot 100% to the ME architecture.
Then again, Maria Barra has shown no compunction in shutting down historic U.S. factories so GM can invest in socially-correct electric cars. So what do I know.
Last edited by rgibson214; May 29, 2019 at 10:42 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 32,295
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If you've ever been to Spring Mountain and peaked into the class rooms for the new corvette owners school, or had lunch in the clubhouse on a day when there are probably 70 - 80 people there, you'll notice a lot of "old and elderly people" buying new corvettes. (of which I'm one )
)Young people cannot afford em new for the most part. Regardless how many say they can, they still don't buy em. They have to buy previous used C-Series. Just as I wrote above.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 245
Likes: 163
Lots of us old people happen to buy new Corvettes. We can afford em. Just about all of em, are up in age that I see in photos too.
Young people cannot afford em new for the most part. Regardless how many say they can, they still don't buy em. They have to buy previous used C-Series. Just as I wrote above.
Young people cannot afford em new for the most part. Regardless how many say they can, they still don't buy em. They have to buy previous used C-Series. Just as I wrote above.