C8 & mods
Pro
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 510
Likes: 141
From: Millington Tenn
TL, I quoted your post, you did not say tune.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 510
Likes: 141
From: Millington Tenn
No one knows the costs or amount work of needed, nor does anyone know the cost of the higher HP models.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 22,598
Likes: 14,556
TL, I quoted your post, you did not say tune.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 799
Likes: 529
From: Gainesville, FL
A few thoughts, from someone who pretty heavily modded plenty of MOPAR cars in the past and spent a career in IT, some of that working with Federal agencies on protecting critical data via encryption.
One, GM did say they would work with aftermarket vendors to give them access to the ECU and other modules to allow modding. I expect this will be a licensing deal, at no small expense, and part of the deal will require the tuner to provide their own powertrain warranty for at least 3 years / 36K miles, like Calloway and some others do now. Keep GM completely out of the loop when someone's mod breaks the DCT. The agreement will likely require the tuner to buy and use GM's tools to work on the computers, hiding all the encryption from the vendor, so there's zero chance of the encryption keys getting out in the wild. It will probably also require the tuner to certify the car still meets Federal Emissions standards. That gets GM away from of the bullseye when the EPA decides to go after some aftermarket vendor. Oh, and it will have seriously strict non-disclosure agreements that would shut you down forever if you share what you know. That program will be available to all tuners, but realistically affordable only to the big boys. Plug in, do-it-yourself tuners will be a relic of the past for this car.
Two, anyone who think it's going to be easy to crack the encryption on the Global B architecture and mod the various modules doesn't really understand modern encryption techniques. GM is building in this encryption to make sure hackers can't take over your autonomous car down the road, not just to keep you from turning off CAGS. This is a serious concern, and they're addressing it in a serious manner. Think very long encryption keys, that will take a typical computer billions of years to crack by brute force. Even using supercomputers (which every tuner has access to, of course):
For those who don't understand exponents, suffice it to say that's longer than any human will still be alive. I don't mean any humans living today, I mean ANY human. 3 followed by 51 zeros years. NO one is going to get into the encrypted architecture without GM's permission. And if you can't get in, you can't even create an unencrypted ECU replacement, or figure out how the various pieces talk to each other. And if you can't talk the right language, you can't do anything.
Three, it doesn't seem like it was all that long ago that we HAD to mod our cars to get anywhere near 500HP. Now we can drive 500, 600, 800 HP right off the dealer lot. I understand part of modding is the fun of having something unique, or that you built with your own hands, but no one is going to need to mod to get "adequate" performance.
Once upon a time I found modding a Dodge Hemi charger, changing the cam, intake and exhaust, carb, increasing compression, and more, to be relatively easy. It's not going to be so easy now. And no matter what I did, I couldn't realistically match the performance of the C8 straight off the showroom floor. I'm fine with the performance of the Stingray, and if I really feel I need more the Z06 will be more than "adequate." I suspect. For those who really "need" more, be prepared to open the checkbook and talk to Calloway or Lingenfelter.
One, GM did say they would work with aftermarket vendors to give them access to the ECU and other modules to allow modding. I expect this will be a licensing deal, at no small expense, and part of the deal will require the tuner to provide their own powertrain warranty for at least 3 years / 36K miles, like Calloway and some others do now. Keep GM completely out of the loop when someone's mod breaks the DCT. The agreement will likely require the tuner to buy and use GM's tools to work on the computers, hiding all the encryption from the vendor, so there's zero chance of the encryption keys getting out in the wild. It will probably also require the tuner to certify the car still meets Federal Emissions standards. That gets GM away from of the bullseye when the EPA decides to go after some aftermarket vendor. Oh, and it will have seriously strict non-disclosure agreements that would shut you down forever if you share what you know. That program will be available to all tuners, but realistically affordable only to the big boys. Plug in, do-it-yourself tuners will be a relic of the past for this car.
Two, anyone who think it's going to be easy to crack the encryption on the Global B architecture and mod the various modules doesn't really understand modern encryption techniques. GM is building in this encryption to make sure hackers can't take over your autonomous car down the road, not just to keep you from turning off CAGS. This is a serious concern, and they're addressing it in a serious manner. Think very long encryption keys, that will take a typical computer billions of years to crack by brute force. Even using supercomputers (which every tuner has access to, of course):
For those who don't understand exponents, suffice it to say that's longer than any human will still be alive. I don't mean any humans living today, I mean ANY human. 3 followed by 51 zeros years. NO one is going to get into the encrypted architecture without GM's permission. And if you can't get in, you can't even create an unencrypted ECU replacement, or figure out how the various pieces talk to each other. And if you can't talk the right language, you can't do anything.
Three, it doesn't seem like it was all that long ago that we HAD to mod our cars to get anywhere near 500HP. Now we can drive 500, 600, 800 HP right off the dealer lot. I understand part of modding is the fun of having something unique, or that you built with your own hands, but no one is going to need to mod to get "adequate" performance.
Once upon a time I found modding a Dodge Hemi charger, changing the cam, intake and exhaust, carb, increasing compression, and more, to be relatively easy. It's not going to be so easy now. And no matter what I did, I couldn't realistically match the performance of the C8 straight off the showroom floor. I'm fine with the performance of the Stingray, and if I really feel I need more the Z06 will be more than "adequate." I suspect. For those who really "need" more, be prepared to open the checkbook and talk to Calloway or Lingenfelter.
If I were a C8 buyer someday, I would accept reality and pretty much keep it stock except for maybe some wheel/tire/appearance options.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 799
Likes: 529
From: Gainesville, FL
Can't see why it would be worth it to do that, especially with the base car. At least start with the Z06 or ZR1 versions if yer gonna go to all that trouble and expense....
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 22,598
Likes: 14,556
All things are potentially possible with enough money, probably. Although some very rich guy last night proved that money can't buy everything.....
Can't see why it would be worth it to do that, especially with the base car. At least start with the Z06 or ZR1 versions if yer gonna go to all that trouble and expense....
Can't see why it would be worth it to do that, especially with the base car. At least start with the Z06 or ZR1 versions if yer gonna go to all that trouble and expense....
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 12,351
Likes: 14,185
From: Central Illinois
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 1,943
From: Austin Texas
As to tuning of the engine: I don't wee why a Motec M800 would not solve the problem*.
As to the DCT: I suspect something similar to the Motec ECU will be available (if not already).
As to people hacking your car: getting GM out of your car is an excellent start in keeping everyone out.
As to autonomous vehicles: my wife would love one, I, personally, will never own one.
An engine ECU is not a whole lot more than a sequencer: figure out when to fire the plugs, figure out when to fire the fuel injector, figure out how much to inject, read throttle pedal and adjust intake throttle position, look at various temperature gauges and enable/disable certain features {RedLine, power,...}
As to the DCT: I suspect something similar to the Motec ECU will be available (if not already).
As to people hacking your car: getting GM out of your car is an excellent start in keeping everyone out.
As to autonomous vehicles: my wife would love one, I, personally, will never own one.
An engine ECU is not a whole lot more than a sequencer: figure out when to fire the plugs, figure out when to fire the fuel injector, figure out how much to inject, read throttle pedal and adjust intake throttle position, look at various temperature gauges and enable/disable certain features {RedLine, power,...}
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Moderator
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 39,165
Likes: 18,012
From: DFW Area TX
TL, I quoted your post, you did not say tune.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
To all the Cyber Security experts and people that “know a guy”...literally same exact bs posts that were on the ZR1 forum and on other boards for some other cars.
The ridiculously long, none of you understand encryption post, is almost identical to several posts from the ZR1 forum.
The best one above is fines or JAIL TIME for modifying your ECU in your car to add some performance mods.
Like I said earlier, here we go, same regurgitated crap.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 22,598
Likes: 14,556
As to tuning of the engine: I don't wee why a Motec M800 would not solve the problem*.
As to the DCT: I suspect something similar to the Motec ECU will be available (if not already).
As to people hacking your car: getting GM out of your car is an excellent start in keeping everyone out.
As to autonomous vehicles: my wife would love one, I, personally, will never own one.
An engine ECU is not a whole lot more than a sequencer: figure out when to fire the plugs, figure out when to fire the fuel injector, figure out how much to inject, read throttle pedal and adjust intake throttle position, look at various temperature gauges and enable/disable certain features {RedLine, power,...}
As to the DCT: I suspect something similar to the Motec ECU will be available (if not already).
As to people hacking your car: getting GM out of your car is an excellent start in keeping everyone out.
As to autonomous vehicles: my wife would love one, I, personally, will never own one.
An engine ECU is not a whole lot more than a sequencer: figure out when to fire the plugs, figure out when to fire the fuel injector, figure out how much to inject, read throttle pedal and adjust intake throttle position, look at various temperature gauges and enable/disable certain features {RedLine, power,...}
Pro
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 526
Likes: 525
https://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgrade_dq500.html
So depending on how the Tremec unit is set up, there are some possibilities. But like you said, you need software engineers now to make it happen. In the last 10 years there have been various hacks put together of software that can change a small handful of parameters, but a complete solution is really time intensive. APR has quite a few people with thick glasses looking at code. Still, this was years in development and testing and required knowledge on the engine control side to make it all work.
Where there is a will there is usually a way. It's just getting more and more complicated.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 799
Likes: 529
From: Gainesville, FL
But it can be done if you know what your doing and assuming Global B can also be reprogrammed. There are a LOT of moving pieces to this equation, even if you want to try standalone systems as the transmission control systems so integrated into the engine control systems. Here is an example of an Audi DSG software only upgrade:
https://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgrade_dq500.html
So depending on how the Tremec unit is set up, there are some possibilities. But like you said, you need software engineers now to make it happen. In the last 10 years there have been various hacks put together of software that can change a small handful of parameters, but a complete solution is really time intensive. APR has quite a few people with thick glasses looking at code. Still, this was years in development and testing and required knowledge on the engine control side to make it all work.
Where there is a will there is usually a way. It's just getting more and more complicated.
https://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_upgrade_dq500.html
So depending on how the Tremec unit is set up, there are some possibilities. But like you said, you need software engineers now to make it happen. In the last 10 years there have been various hacks put together of software that can change a small handful of parameters, but a complete solution is really time intensive. APR has quite a few people with thick glasses looking at code. Still, this was years in development and testing and required knowledge on the engine control side to make it all work.
Where there is a will there is usually a way. It's just getting more and more complicated.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 1,943
From: Austin Texas
I am glad I am old enough to not worry about owning an autonomous car.