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I apologize in advance if I have missed it, I searched the forum using the thread search and google. I also realize timing for this question is bad as with COVID19 and current plant and supplier issues things are not predictable. Very curious if anyone has inside info on:
I apologize in advance if I have missed it, I searched the forum using the thread search and google. I also realize timing for this question is bad as with COVID19 and current plant and supplier issues things are not predictable. Very curious if anyone has inside info on:
I think Covid 19 has thrown a monkey wrench in all manufacturing planning. Especially, if it involves incorporating a new model into the product line. GM has their engineering teams working from home but there is only so much that can be done from home and when the time comes to build pre production cars, test cars, develop model specific assembly procedures and check them out everything is up in the air. Like the rest of us GM doesn't know when people will be able to do that, how many people will be able to do that and when the rest of the supply chain will be able provide support to finish the job.
As the saying goes "When you are up to your *** in Alligators, it is hard to remember your original intent was to drain the swamp."
We can't even get the 2020's built and delivered yet? GM has no reason to consider a ZO6 model until 2022 or 2023?
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn
I think Covid 19 has thrown a monkey wrench in all manufacturing planning. Especially, if it involves incorporating a new model into the product line. GM has their engineering teams working from home but there is only so much that can be done from home and when the time comes to build pre production cars, test cars, develop model specific assembly procedures and check them out everything is up in the air. Like the rest of us GM doesn't know when people will be able to do that, how many people will be able to do that and when the rest of the supply chain will be able provide support to finish the job.
As the saying goes "When you are up to your *** in Alligators, it is hard to remember your original intent was to drain the swamp."
I apologize in advance if I have missed it, I searched the forum using the thread search and google. I also realize timing for this question is bad as with COVID19 and current plant and supplier issues things are not predictable. Very curious if anyone has inside info on:
C8 Z06 introduction date
C8 Z06 availability
We'll know November 5th depending on who wins on November 4th! You could see this Grand Sport first soon after (info leaked in Tech/Performance Section November 2019 LINK: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-drive-c8.html .) Depending on the winner you'll see this and other C8 hybrids introduced soon after as only way to meet the ~35 mph that will be required by law! No way the "Folks pushing reduced CO2 emissions now" will allow a 20 mpg car (or light truck) to exist. They had a plan published in a 1174 page document in 2012. It would have required hybrids or EVs starting to be used in by now and reaching ~40 mph by 2025 for the Corvette Family as well as the Silverado Family (and all other vehicles published in detail!, some with even higher requirements) It's been on hold since 2017.
As of this date, only speculation on the Z06 engine.
Here is a composite pic I made with the data published in the article and my speculation it's Grand Sport from the engine mentioned, the standard LT2. . The pic below re hybrid specifics is from the article you'll find in the Link provided.
We'll know November 5th depending on who wins on November 4th! You could see this Grand Sport first soon after (info leaked in Tech/Performance Section November 2019 LINK: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-drive-c8.html .) Depending on the winner you'll see this and other C8 hybrids introduced soon after as only way to meet the ~35 mph that will be required by law! No way the "Folks pushing reduced CO2 emissions now" will allow a 20 mpg car (or light truck) to exist. They had a plan published in a 1174 page document in 2012. It would have required hybrids or EVs starting to be used in by now and reaching ~40 mph by 2025 for the Corvette Family as well as the Silverado Family (and all other vehicles published in detail!, some with even higher requirements) It's been on hold since 2017.
As of this date, only speculation on the Z06 engine.
Here is a composite pic I made with the data published in the article and my speculation it's Grand Sport from the engine mentioned, the standard LT2. . The pic below re hybrid specifics is from the article you'll find in the Link provided.
Those MPG regulations are not per vehicle but rather combined mpg across a manufacturers entire fleet.
^^^ Wrong! Here is a PDF that discusses what the 1174 page document stated in 2012 and up until late night November 2016 GM etc thought they would have to meet- BY LAW!: http://netwelding.com/C8_FWD_Hybrid.p
Below is a Pic from 2 pages.
And it's NOT a "gas guzzler" penalty paid by the owners. It's a prohibitive fine paid my "manufacturers" if they don't meet the goals!
YOU REALLLY DON'T THINK THE "REDUCE CO2 EMMISSONS NOW" FOLKS will let rich "Corvette" owners ruin the world because they have money to buy one! Only the Hollywood types and Al Gore can fly around in their jets and yell down, "stop ruining the planet!" We don't have a choice. There is no way out, hybrid or EV! The CEO of Ferrari recently said they plan on 60% hybrid sales ib 2022 (have similar laws based on max CO2/km, in Europe.) Porsche has said 50% EV's in 2025. Porsche can get by, IMO, with 1/2 EVs and balance their CO2 emitting cars because many Porsche owner's have big bucks and can afford cars like their 2013 expensive 918 hybrid that got 67 mpg! They only drive them to the country club on weekends. That does NOT fit 95+% of Corvette owners, particularly my DDs!
Read-up on the issue there is not a simple loophole a Corvette can slip thorough! Or a Silverado.
Not sure where your data is from but car manufacturers are looking much further down the road than the next election. First of all nobody has parallel development programs going on based on an election. The can hardly afford development costs on one redesign, not have a red or blue Silverado waiting in the wings. Secondly the auto industry is like a huge freighter, it takes years and big money to turn around. Remember when the president suggested lowering the fuel efficiency standards? All the manufacturers were saying the same thing "thanks but were on track let us continue".
I believe what manufacturers want is a global standard, no more US spec , EU spec, everyone else .... just build one car for the entire world and swap the steering wheel left or right.
^^^
Yep, you're right. Manufacturers of Sports cars saw the 2012 Federal document and what was to become law starting in 2017, requiring ~40 mpg for sport sports as what they had to build them to meet!
That is why GM planned, that soon after the C8 was to be introduced "the average model" would require ~23 mpg and in 2025 ~40 mpg. So did Ferrari, Porsche etc! That is my contention why GM planned only a DCT not the Marketing Speak of "no pedal room," "can't cut a hole in the center structural support," "financial considerations!" They did not intentionally **** off the 20% standard shift buyers! They felt it would be Law and they could blame "a government" for what few sports cars owners want, "a hybrid that only starts the ICE when the car is at 30 to 40 mph in "normal driving!"
PS: My data comes from a 1174 page government document that defines the requirements. This is a press release that same year: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...iency-standard
The Title is: Obama Administration Finalizes Historic 54.5 MPG Fuel Efficiency Standards
Note: the 54.5 mpg is probably the approximate average for all cars and light trucks as small sedans had to get ~60 mpg (look at the table in Post #13.)
I think Covid 19 has thrown a monkey wrench in all manufacturing planning. Especially, if it involves incorporating a new model into the product line. GM has their engineering teams working from home but there is only so much that can be done from home and when the time comes to build pre production cars, test cars, develop model specific assembly procedures and check them out everything is up in the air. Like the rest of us GM doesn't know when people will be able to do that, how many people will be able to do that and when the rest of the supply chain will be able provide support to finish the job.
As the saying goes "When you are up to your *** in Alligators, it is hard to remember your original intent was to drain the swamp."
Bill
Don’t you think there are already preproduction cars are already built, being tested right now?, I would say yes
Last edited by NytmereZ; May 26, 2020 at 12:48 PM.
Those MPG regulations are not per vehicle but rather combined mpg across a manufacturers entire fleet.
Wrong! Read the 1174 page government doc- I did! No, Ferrari can't just buy Tesla and solve their issue! And GM could not just call a Bolt and Volt a Corvette! May not agree with the government bureaucrats (I don't)but they aren't stupid! Many times lack common sense BUT not stupid! Read the two tables I posted! The mpg requirement is by car and light truck model! Note, the Silverado would require ~40 mpg as well and the GM Board cares more about it since they sell over 550,000/yr versus 40,000/yr Corvettes! There are some complex offset issues for EV's BUT basically each model was to meet the mpg outlined it tables I copied and put in post #13!
Porsche has said they plan on 50% hybrid sports cars in 2025 (note the year- no coincidence!) That can be blended with lower mpg BUT the average would have required ~40 mpg. The Ferrari CEO recently said they plan of selling 60% hybrids in 2022. He also said they are not considering EV's until after 2025 because of battery limitations. Not as easy for high powered reasonable range sports cars. My guess is it may work for Porsche because they have enough well-healed potential customers who will buy an expensive limited range EV sports cars to impress their friends at the Country Club on weekends and can afford an other car(s) for a DD!
Suggest you read the document. Although I don't agree with the goal it's very well written and they justify what each class of vehicle can achieve. Therefore high powered sports cars require "only" ~40 mpg while smaller lower power grocery getters can achieve ~60 mpg. If you like math, lots of good science when into that effort versus subjective opinion!
Keep in mind these are the EPA drive cycle numbers NOT what sports car drivers may achieve! And at large throttle openings (which the EPA does not measure) you get the benefit of added ICE and Hybrid power.
BTW, that is GM battery capacity value NOT mine. Perhaps that was installed for what was planned initially as the mpg requirement increased each year until the 2025.
Since I like pictures here is some info to digest:
To meet the EPA City Drive cycle requires very little power and speeds are under 60 mph. Lots of periods of costing where the battery can be recharged. It's a blended 55% City 45% Highway average that is needed so the gains will be in the City drive cycle.
Z06 introduction and availability dates
Wrong! Read the 1174 page government doc- I did! No, Ferrari can't just buy Tesla and solve their issue! And GM could not just call a Bolt and Volt a Corvette! May not agree with the government bureaucrats (I don't)but they aren't stupid! Many times lack common sense BUT not stupid! Read the two tables I posted! The mpg requirement is by car and light truck model! Note, the Silverado would require ~40 mpg as well and the GM Board cares more about it since they sell over 550,000/yr versus 40,000/yr Corvettes! There are some complex offset issues for EV's BUT basically each model was to meet the mpg outlined it tables I copied and put in post #13!