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A key points to me were the following:“…the AWD base Corvette hybrid variant will be available in coupe and convertible versions and will share its mid-mounted LT2 internal combustion engine
…electric drive unit in the front that is listed with an 85 kW peak output rating, which converts to around 114 horsepower. This electric motor is also claimed to produce 111 lb-ft of torque, with an output of over 880 lb-ft at the axle after the roughly 8:1 gear reduction.”
The fact that it will have the LT2 at essentially 495 hp, dispels the thought FWD will only be for the Z06 and Zoro. In fact the lower equivalent of 114 hp supports my supposition it could be for greater mpg as well as performance. My thought is to meet the ~2025 significantly higher mpg goals outlined in the agreement of California and Ford, Toyota, VW and BMW AND the recently released info that the current administration EPA is working with CA to see if they can reach a compromise (which CA is pleased about) is a sign my concept may be needed.
For background, the 2016 EPA 400 page document that defined the “Corvette Family” mpg goal would be ~40 mpg; the agreement reached with Ford et all in July said the goals for all vehicle families would be somewhat less than the EPA guidlines; and the current administration tying to reach an agreement with CA indicates to me that the Corvette Family might need to achieve 30 to 35 mpg by 2025. This will not be possible without a significantly different power application and significant energy saving means. An this is NOT just a “gas guzzler” tax paid by the buyer. If the goals are not met by family, i.e. Corvette, Silverado etc the manufacturer gets a prohibitively expensive fine.
My guess is it could be all C8’s will have a FWD hybrid by ~2025. When the car is at a stop the ICE will be turned off. In normal driving, the FWD hybrid will bring the car to about cruising speed BEFORE the ICE will start! Looking at gasoline energy use, that saves about 10% wasted gas idling, and a significant amount of otherwise gasoline energy used to bring the car to normal cruising speed. (To see how much energy is used, display your instantaneous mpg and accelerate normally and watch the very low values until you reach cruising speed for in town driving.) Most important the battery energy is replaced with otherwise wasted braking energy! Typically less than 15% of the energy in gasoline used reaches the rear wheels to propel the car. Of that 15% about a 1/3, on average, turns into heat when braking. Some of that waste can be saved!
Now for what I and most other C8 owners care about-performance- both the hybrid 114 hp and LT2 495 hp can be used together when driving agressivly! Great for improved 0 to 60 times and when coming out of a turn when tracking etc! FWD grip is what is needed along with just more power! The best of both words, as like now the EPA drive cycle does not care about mpg with large throttle openings. On average it’s a small percent of how the average Corvette is used! Even today the EPA drive cycle has the M7 shifting at rpms that bring the engine to ~1000 rpm after a shift to get to the advertised mpg. Hence why there is the 1st to 4th skip shift! Looks like we’ll see sooner than I thought we might!
Last edited by Steve Garrett; Dec 13, 2019 at 08:27 PM.
Funny, have to chuckle as my above speculation has a very big implication for a thread I infrequently post on because of all the “woe is me” for GM not providing a manual C8. However if my speculation is correct, as I suspected some time ago seeing what I consider “marketing speak” by GM, re no foot well room, not wanting to cut a hole in the center support member for a shifter, is mostly that. The real reason is you need the transmission shifted by a computer to do what I outlined! For a standard shift C8 hybrid can’t just have a message in HUD saying, “Shift into 4th gear, we’re going to turn on the LT2!
IMO that may be a main reason for no standard shift! Heck GM will sell all the C8s they can build for 2020 and 2021 (even if for 2021 dealers have to give small discounts from MSRP.). Then a stanard shift trans would only be good for a year or so until the hybrid is standard. Tremec is well aware of GM’s future plans as they have to integrate the FWD with the RWD systems. They are not going to tool up for a C8 standard trans for a 1 or 2 year production run!
Bear, know you try to respond to some of the foolish rhetoric from the “only stanard shift crowd!” I mostly gave up! They don’t want to hear any negatives to their entrenched position. Tadge and company know the future but can’t say as stoping the ICE and having the FWD hybrid bring the car to cruising speed just makes most
Funny, have to chuckle as my above speculation has a very big implication for a thread I infrequently post on because of all the “woe is me” for GM not providing a manual C8. However if my speculation is correct, as I suspected some time ago seeing what I consider “marketing speak” by GM, re no foot well room, not wanting to cut a hole in the center support member for a shifter, is mostly that. The real reason is you need the transmission shifted by a computer to do what I outlined! For a standard shift C8 hybrid can’t just have a message in HUD saying, “Shift into 4th gear, we’re going to turn on the LT2!
IMO that may be a main reason for no standard shift! Heck GM will sell all the C8s they can build for 2020 and 2021 (even if for 2021 dealers have to give small discounts from MSRP.). Then a stanard shift trans would only be good for a year or so until the hybrid is standard. Tremec is well aware of GM’s future plans as they have to integrate the FWD with the RWD systems. They are not going to tool up for a C8 standard trans for a 1 or 2 year production run!
Bear, know you try to respond to some of the foolish rhetoric from the “only stanard shift crowd!” I mostly gave up! They don’t want to hear any negatives to their entrenched position. Tadge and company know the future but can’t say as stoping the ICE and having the FWD hybrid bring the car to cruising speed just makes most
Insulting Trump is the same as Insulting we deplorables. Same with the manual shift deplorables. You insult as with your ignorance. An old lady once asked Fats Waller, "What is Swing"? He answered, " If you gotsta aks, you'll never know."
Porsche offers manuals, why can't Corvette? Why fast shifts if you are not dragging or racing. The joys of owning a sports car is to drive in the mountains at your leisure.
The C8 is an already compromised sports car with a highly questionable chassis design with a DCT, also a highly questionable design, and God awful looks, especially the interior.
I hope for GM and America's sake, it sells like crazy and it is reliable, even if it means abandoning us deplorable manual shift guys temporarily.
There is no rocket science involved by offering a manual transmission. They don't have to be controlled artificially by computers but only real car enthusiasts.
Lutz said that after 2 years, a FE Corvette will once again emerge with a M7 option.
I'm all for an electric motorized front axle and ER system but I'm dead against electric cars.
Just as the alarming ignorance of the advances in the uses of Magnesium on this forum, none of you have any idea of the looming e waste crisis that the greenie communists are creating. QED.
^^^
Missed the point altogether! I’ve only driven stanard shifts for 60 years as my DD! Very good at heal toe when driving in anger! Now just as good at low speed turns going from 5th to 3rd and get a perfect rpm match as been driving my C7 M7’s using Rev Match for 6 years. I didn’t say anything bad about Trump - and I shop at Walmart! Was also very proficient at heal-toe with my 5 speed S-10 when the lower gear would be close to redline but at low speed turns, always tried from 5th going to 3rdbut with it’s pedal placement it was often not perfect. Even with my C6 it was not always a perfect match on low speed turns in town. It is with the C7s and Rev Match.
What I said (and you don’t apparently want to hear) is the EPA has been instructed to work with CA to find a compromise from the California/Ford, Toyota, VW, BMW achieved vehicle mpg agreement! It’s somewhat less than the ~40 mpg 2016 EPA plan for the “Corvette Family” in 2025 but still much higher than what the current C8 can achieve. Trump is smart, he knows uniform mpg is required by the car industry for whole country. Can’t have different mpg values for CA and 5 plus States that use their emission laws.
Heck I get 10 mpg with the 502 BB in my Street Rod and never put my 2014 C7 or my current Grand Sport M7s In ECO mode! Could care less for myself re mpg. In fact plan to drive my C8 always pressing the “M” (manual) button, so it will also not go into V4 mode. Heck I am seldom out of 5th gear, never use 6th and 7th only when on the Interstate, which is seldom.
Achieving higher mpg is the future if you or I like it or not! A low power hybrid, in normal driving, and Shutting off the LT2 when the car stops and Starting it ONLY when the FWD hybrid brings it to about cruising speed will be a big energy saver. The battery is recharged with otherwise wasted braking energy. I didn’t say that was my preference, it’s what is coming. With that system the transmission must be controlled with the engine start! Chevy has a bigger issue with the Silverado that has about the same mpg goal as the Corvette. They sell 550,000 of those/year. Expect we’ll see something similar with it.
You can hope the FE is coming back if you want but no way that is going to happen!
Hmm, have a section in my CarTech Pro Series two books, one still in print, discussing and showing a pic of welds made in Magnesium! Not sure what that has to do with the topic!
From the details provided, IMO this article is referencing the C8 Grand Sport in Coupe and Vert versions. In fact it has far better details than the Motor Trend reference that describes a 900 hp Zora. It details and has pics showing the covers on C8's front spindles that are removed and where the front axle inserts. It describes the twin lower mount for the coilovers that allows the axle to pass from the center mounted 114 hp electric motor.
It reinforces why, IMO, GM had Andy Pilgrim "leak" in an interview in February 2019 when the FE forever crowd was making lots of "negative noise" about a ME. He said it made room for a FWD hydrid as one reason. These C8 hybrid article details could have been leaked to counter all the negative "noise" about "no standard shift!" Regardless if some don't want to hear about needing better mpg, the detailed >1000 page plan for 2017- 2025 improved mpg can't be met by "wishing it would go away" or anything like minor improvements from the current ~20 mpg average to probably ~30 to 35 mpg the current EPA negotiations with CA will yield. An extra 114 hp hybrid propelling when driving aggressively is too low a power for a Z06 with the LT2 engine that is reported it will use! It's much more likely it will be used to achieve much higher mpg they will be required by ~2025. Since the "Corvette family" mpg is what is measured to meet increasing and future goals for the manufacture to avoid a very high fine, This C8 Grand Sport can add significantly to the average EPA test mpg. ,As it did after its introduction it represented almost half the C7's sold.so will help achieve the objective with the annually required improvements in mpg. Few bought the Z51 after 2017! Properly priced, it could be enough volume to meet the mpg goals which progressively get higher, each year. In ~2025 the electric hybrid power could be on all C8's.
If you look at the EPA City mpg test below, you can see that in the EPA drive test the hybrid can mostly be used with lots of deacceleration and braking time to charge the battery! There are also ways it can be effective on the Highway as the report says the electric motor can be used up to 150 mph! The Vette could be in 8th gear and when going up a slight hill or wanting to accelerate past another car, unlike now switching back to a V8 instead the hybrid could be used to supply the significant energy needed to accelerate to the higher test speed! GM also has a 2V mode that could be incorporated for highway driving. Using this approach, the transmission MUST be controlled by a computer from when the ICE is shut off at a Stop or accelerates from a low speed. No way a standard shift is viable as the driver would have to select the optimum gear when the ICE restarts. Perhaps the few times the car is used for long highway drives it is not a lot of help- BUT as the saying goes, "Your Mileage May Vary!" Not needed as the "EPA test that" represents average driving.
Hmm, post and pics getting too long and many more pics needed to show why a hybrid C8 that can get much better mpg can't have "a standard shift." Decided to make my 1st C8 PDF for those interested in the details and a quick review of the 1174 page NHTSA report: http://netwelding.com/C8_FWD_Hybrid.pdf
Will update as more info is made available. No matter what the EPA and CA agree to as compromise mpg values it will no doubt use that very detailed method to differentiate between Different vehicle mpg requirements!
FYI that cover plate doesn't mean anything. On the C6 and C7 the front/rear uprights are the same and have the hole for the hub and axle shaft. The cover plate may just be for the display car, or to keep dirt off the back of the bearing.
Do you have a better shot of the bottom of the front coil-over shock? Are you saying the lower mount is already a split design? If so, that's much more telling than the upright cover plate.
^^
It's the pic from the article, I just put the yellow line from their words. The text just described the lower support as split. No pic, nor is the above pic of an actual hybrid.. Enough detail re power, battery capacity tire sizes so it sounds like they are getting the info from someone who knows.
Found some interesting info relative to the C8 Hybrid.
First; in regard to reaching ~45 mpg in city driving- may be possible from the drive cycle pic presented above for the EPA City test. The C8 hybrid could operate mostly on battery power and there appears to be sufficient braking and deaccelerating time to keep the battery charged. Based on the Prius Prime battery weight and capacity (180lb/4.4 kWh) the quoted 1.94 kWh C8 battery should weight about 80 lbs. The Prius Prime can get 54 combined mpg. Older Prius models that only had hybrid mode (no plug-in mode) achieved ~50 mpg combined but could be driven in a way that got more. So perhaps the C8 hybrid could reach 35 to 40 mpg "IF" that'sspecified for the "Corvette Family" for 2025/2026.
Second; good info in the December 2019 R&T I just received about the C8 testing (forget their foolish winner to PCOTY! Like Google and Facebook they probably got a long term ad package from Hyundai to be 1st ) This was an interesting comment about the by-wire brake assist: "Once you start thinking about a hybrid Corvette, by-wire assist really starts to pay dividends. Hybrids use blended brake systems that continually shift braking duties between regenerative braking and conventional friction braking. This leads to inconsistent and unusual pedal feel that a by-wire assist eliminates!" Recall F1 drivers having to consider IF their KERS would be braking aggressively to charge their small battery to define how much friction bake was needed when braking for a turn.
Unrelated to a hybrid, also found this discerption of the C8 handling interesting: With the FWD Hyundai trail braking was used for the best cornering speed. The Porsche Carrara S didn't swing like a pendulum as in older rear heavy Porsches but still had to focus on getting max rear tire traction. The C8 managed the front and rear tires equally!
SIDEBAR
Funny, re a FWD winning! loved my FWD Dodge Colt Turbo (bought for gas mileage) BUT it was no handling match of even my modified Corvair or 260Z. The Colt handled better when I bought 14 inch plus 1 wheels and Pirelli P7 tires for warmer weather! The only way to get that heavy understeering FWD around corners, when driving aggressively, was to use the emergency brake with my finger on the locking button! When the rear end slide and the car was pointed where I wanted - released the button! On icy roads in CT, where I was living at the time, also used the same emergency brake approach going down hill to keep the car straight!
Even in R&T's 11 car selection for best 2020 car of the year, the Hyundai finished next to last on the track- only the Mazda Miata RF was slower! The C8 came in third behind a 5.2 Liter V10 Lambo Huracan EVO and a $330,000 McLaren 600LT. It finished ahead of the 911 Porsche Carrara S! Overall lots of good C8 info, IMO.
I agree that everything points to them planning the C8 chassis for a hybrid, but I do not understand the appeal of a hybrid base Vette. The performance improvement will be offset by the weight. I can understand it at the ultra power levels where AWD is needed to use the power.
^^^
Hmm, I know most Vette owners don't want to think about it BUT if you read the ~1100 page Federal document (free for download and pic of front page above) re getting improved mileage by 2025 think you'll understand! Granted the current administration put it on hold for the past 3 years BUT in July, Ford/Toyota/VW/BMW reached an agreement with California who said they will implement it for their State! The compromise requires somewhat less aggressive mpg but the "Corvette Family" is shown in the original doc as requiring ~40 mpg in 2025. So even if it's 30/35 mpg requirement no way to get from the current 20 mpg average with simple tweaks! This is NOT a gas guzzler tax paid by the buyer- it's prohibitive fines for the manufacturer if these goals are not met!
The EPA is currently in negotiations with CA as there needs to be a 50 State solution for US car companies NOT some companies just not selling certain cars/light trucks in CA and 5+ other states that follow their lead! Because of past history of allowing CA to set their own exhaust emission rules, an EPA spokesperson said that they will likely lose the current legal attempts to block it! That's assuming the current administration is still here in 2021! Would you want to run your business based on an election result? I can assure you the GM Board would not support that decision!
I'm no tree huger and will pay the ~$10 Federal Gas Tax for my ~10 mpg ProStreet Rod with it's 8.2 Liter BB if some of the "No Fossil Fuel Crowd" gain control! And just like Europe, that is an easy way to get folks off petroleum based fuel! Kind of easy to see the handwriting on he wall if you look!
Don't like to hear the reason then like I did 20 years ago build your own car! Mine weights under 3000 lbs, has disk brakes and adjustable coilovers in all 4 corners, a 4 bar link rear, 420 section width rear tires for what I built to do- go straight fast! No CATs, air bags or exhaust, noise pollution issues to be concerned with!
Oh, even the base C8 will have a 0 to 60 speed improvement and when leaving an apex in a high speed turn that extra power and FWD traction will be great! BUT in normal cruising you'll get much better mpg, if you want it or NOT!
I agree that everything points to them planning the C8 chassis for a hybrid, but I do not understand the appeal of a hybrid base Vette.
The reason, as I have mentioned, is "required mpg!" Can assure you GM is not basing their future Corvette and Silverado "Family" designs without consideration of the EPA 1174 page doc and no doubt that agreed to with CA by Ford/Toyota/VW/BMW! They will follow that very detailed method of defining what vehicle "Family" needs to achieve what mpg. May not like the mpg #'s (I don't) but their method of defining what "Family" needs what mpg logically defined with lots of statistical data. GM is not basing their future company plans and existence on who will win the next Federal election!
That is why my guess this "leaked" info defines the Grand Sport:
The Corporate mpg goals (by vehicle Family) get progressively more each year. It was indicated in the July 2019 CA/Ford/Toyota/VW/BMW agreement the final mpg numbers were somewhat lower than the EPA values and pushed out until 2026. BUT it's a progressively better mpg value each year! How to get there with the Corvette? My marketing guess is something like this:
No doubt the Z06 will be the next C8 variant, probably a 2022 model. Whatever ICE, it will have the hybrid. The tire size "leaked" was very specific and is for more than needed for a 495 hp LT2. Just what the ICE will be, have no idea and doesn't matter for the next car- the Grand Sport.
The Grand Sport may be released soon after the Z06. GM waited about a year for the C7 BUT there was really no engineering reason. It used the Z06 body, minor chassis changes and the 2014 Z51 engine. The sales of Z51's almost stopped when it was introduced, with over half the cars being wide body cars mostly Grand Sports.
I predict the same will happen the C8. Once the hybrid Grand Sport is introduced, the Z51 as currently structured will have greatly redcued sales. If not in 2022 (assuming that is when it's introduced) soon after. GM can control that volume ratio simply with price! Therefor half the C8's sold could be hybrids for 2022! When calculating the Corvette "Family" mpg, averaging the much higher hybrid mpg (in normal driving) with the base (much lower "average" mpg) could meet their Corporate mpg goal and avoid a very prohibitive Corporate financial penalty. Keep in mind this is NOT a gas guzzler tax, it's a Corporate fine! Sure the C8 Z06 and the Zora may still have owner paid, gas guzzler tax but GM can still meet it's corporate goal. Keep in mind when driving aggressively the EPA doesn't measure mpg as "on average" it's a small % of total car usage. Therefore you'll get the benefit of the added FWD power and ICE power whenever you put your foot to the floor!
In 2025/2026 the base C8 may need the hybrid as well. That relatively low power FWD electric motor is one reason it appears to me this hybrid is more for mpg. The Zora will proably have a higher power more expensive version. GM may have a unique "low cost" hybrid solution to go with the base C8 that does not be a wide body. No need for a wide body with the base LT2 and 114 hybrid FWD hybrid!
My Latest Undated Pic with Battery Capacity and Estimated Weight from the Leaked Info (and other hybrid battery weights for their capacity.)
If the option to add this set-up had been available and a few thousand dollars, I would have checked the box. If GM gets the transition between electric and ICE is seamless as Toyota does, I don't see a down side on a car that was probably designed with this in mind. I realize there is more weight, but, the extra power, being able to launch with 4 wheels will be worth it, especially on streets with uneven and crappy pavement. Higher city mpg is a bonus for those of us commuting in major metropolitan areas. I don't track my C6, so I'm commenting on street usage.
... If GM gets the transition between electric and ICE is seamless as Toyota does, I don't see a down side on a car that was probably designed with this in mind. I realize there is more weight, but, the extra power, being able to launch with 4 wheels will be worth it, especially on streets with uneven and crappy pavement. ...
Thanks! Few want to admit that GM has no choice but to meet the inevitable mpg goals that will be required in the near future! Sure most on this forum (including me) want speed and power and thinking about mpg is not something that is Top-Of-Mind! That, IMO is why Tadge and company are reluctant to talk about that feature. I found it very interesting that the "leak" had only a 114 hp FWD and said it would be with the current 495 hp LT2. That's what makes me think they were definding the Grand Sport. If introduced with the Z06 in 2022 (with whatever ICE the Z06 will have) it will use the same size tires etc and if like the C7 will be a major volume seller. That will let GM significantly increase the "average" mpg for the "Corvette Family" from 2022/2023. Granted it is mostly in the City EPA drive cycle BUT that is 55% of the EPA average calculation.
However, as with my M7 when on the Interstate, where I have tested the ECO mode, as soon as there is a slight grade (which where I live is slight) it switched back to V8 mode. With the Hybrid C8 it could stay on V4 mode and get the extra needed power from the electric moor. In fact, GM has a variable cylinder V8 that can run on 2 cylinders. Can see that being used in say in 2025 (or sooner) and the hybrid providing the small amount of extra needed power when going up many Interstate hills! Hmm, maybe GM had another reason for keeping that old pushrod small block rather than a DOHC engine! Heck with 2 cylinders when cruising and a hybrid could get good highway miles as well!
I find it funny that the "Standard Shift Forever" crowd don't want to hear this reason why only a DCT is offered! Why should GM (and Tremic, who no doubt knows the GM future transmission plans) invest in one for a few years, at best! No need for 2020 and probably 2021 to sell all they can make! Fact is the hybrid transmission must be controlled by a computer to select the correct gear when the ICE starts at about a ~40 mph cruising speed and can integrate the gear it should be in when the FWD power is applied based on throttle position etc! So some keep "bad mouthing" GM on that ~450,000 viewed forum Thread!
When GM "needs" a higher mph average expect the base C8 will have a similar hybrid and does not need the "Wide Body." Could be another "Coup" from GM! A low cost hybrid with a low cost ME Sports Car! They can control the volumes of each needed based on option price! Bet it will only be a few thousand if not less!
As I don't track either that extra traction for 0 to 60 mph application would be a something I would appreciate. But Trackers being able to accelerate faster from a corner apex would also be a significant advantage.
I find it funny that the "Standard Shift Forever" crowd don't want to hear this reason why only a DCT is offered! Why should GM (and Tremic, who no doubt knows the GM future transmission plans) invest in one for a few years, at best! No need for 2020 and probably 2021 to sell all they can make! Fact is the hybrid transmission must be controlled by a computer to select the correct gear when the ICE starts at about a ~40 mph cruising speed and can integrate the gear it should be in when the FWD power is applied based on throttle position etc! So some keep "bad mouthing" GM on that ~450,000 viewed forum Thread!
I haven't looked at that thread, but in interviews, Tadge pointed to a low take rate for the manual combined with the DCTs shift speed likely decreasing demand further. He also cited the significant cost to develop the transmission & linkage, and the cost to certify the MPG as factors. I love my stick in light traffic and fun runs, but not so much in heavy stop & go traffic. I'm ready to try the DCT. I'm hoping in sport mode the shift pattern (shift rpm vs pedal input) aren't too lazy.
I'm guessing they could make a hybrid work with a manual, maybe with some compromises to overall efficiency.
^^^
Yep, I’ve only had a standard shift for my daily driver in 60 years. The C8 will be my first DD without a 3rd pedal! I’m also looking forward to trying something new. The C8 DCT has some unique features. For example pull both levers and the car goes in neutral so you can use some throttle before engaging a gear. You can put it in manual mode and can shift with the paddles. Talked to several who would not drive anything other than a DCT who had also only had standard shifts. One said he always uses it manually.
There were some manual hybrids but none are still made. Also those that existed did not turn on the ICE at say 40 mpg after the hybrid brought it up to crusing speed. In addition to putting the trans in the right gear before starting the engine the computer must integrate the proper gear with FWD and throttle! Don’t see all happening without the computer selecting the right gear based on a number of inputs.
FROM FERRARI"The battery technology is not where it should be yet," Camilleri told reporters at the Centro Stile at Ferrari's Maranello factory.
"There are still significant issues in terms of autonomy, in terms of speed of recharging. So eventually we will come out with one. But it's post-2025. Not in the short term," he said. Ferrari wants 60 percent of its cars sold by 2022 to be hybrids.
As for transmissions, again from Ferrari Ferrari's SF90 Stradale, will feature a dual-clutch eight-speed transmission from megasupplier Magna International.Magna's transmission, which makes its production debut in the model, aids the supercar's green chops with a smaller size, less weight and more fuel efficiency.
"It comes with all attributes necessary for outstanding driving performance in urban traffic as well as on racetracks," said Jörg Gindele, senior director of engineering at Magna Powertrain. "We integrated new technologies such as a honeycomb housing structure to reduce weight by about 10 kg (~22 lbs) and improve torque-to-weight performance."
The transmission is built in Neuenstein, Germany.
The 986-hp SF90 Stradale is powered by a turbocharged gasoline engine that delivers 769 hp, the highest performance ever by an eight-cylinder unit in Ferrari's history. The remaining 217 hp is supplied by three electric motors, one at the rear and two on the front axle. In electric-only mode, it has a range of 16 miles and a top speed of 84 mph.
FROM FERRARI"The battery technology is not where it should be yet," Camilleri told reporters at the Centro Stile at Ferrari's Maranello factory.
"There are still significant issues in terms of autonomy, in terms of speed of recharging. So eventually we will come out with one. But it's post-2025. Not in the short term," he said. Ferrari wants 60 percent of its cars sold by 2022 to be hybrids.
Good find! BATTERY
Louis Camilleri, Ferrari's CEO, was referring to the total EV Ferrari re battery issues. For their 60% Hybrid goal in 2022 there should be no issue. The recently released Ferrari SF90 Stradale, is all-wheel drive with a total 986 hp with 217 hybrid electric hp! It uses a 7.9 kWh lithium-ion battery. That compares to the much smaller 1.94 kWh capacity in the "leaked C8 Hybrid."
Prius batteries are fine and have been for years. I based the <~100 lb for the C8 battery on Jalopnik "leaked hybrid capacity" on the weight/capacity of a Prius.
60% Ferrari Hybrids in 2022 - Same Year I Postulated The C8 Hybrid will Start!
Interesting that Ferrari is aiming at 60% hybrids by 2022! Ferrari sells lot of cars in California and no doubt wants to continue! They are facing similar if not tougher CO2 emission requirements in Europe!
Funny I picked 2022 as the start for the Corvette Hybrid in my updated (just also updated with the Ferrari info)PDF! http://netwelding.com/C8_FWD_Hybrid.pdf
Based that on the California/Ford/Toyota/VW/BMW improved mpg agreement reached in July 2019. It will require somewhat less than the EPA ~40 mpg (that has been on hold for 3 years) for the "Corvette family" and delayed until 2026. BUT it requires an improvement in mpg each year. Assuming it's redcued to ~35 mpg for the "Corvette Family" my SWAG on how GM can get the Corvette there was based on stating in 2022 and is outlined on my C8 Hybrid PDF. I based the C8 hybrid mentioned in the Jalopnik article defining a Grand Sport.
It simply assumes the C8 Hybrid can get to an average 39 mpg by passing the EPA City drive cycle mostly with it's hybrid FWD! Since the EPA average is based on summing 55% City, 45% Highway IMO that ~39 mpg average could be achievable!
This is the summary outlined in the PDF of what % of C8s sold will be hybrid sales each year to meet estimated annual requirements: Assume a Hybrid with LT2 engine = ~39 average mpg can be achieved to meet progressively tighter goals through 2026 (initially leaving out unknown volumes of Z06 and Zora,) :
Then: 2020/2021 C8 Average with zero hybrids = ~20 mpg average mpg for the "Corvette family"
In 2022 with about half the GS sales being hybrids so ~25% of the total sales will be hybrids @ 39 mpg = ~24 mpg average mpg for the "Corvette family"
2024 with all GS's being hybrids (easily controlled with price) so 50% of all Vettes sold are hybrids (assumes the C8 Grand Sport will like the C7 be ~half total sales) @ 39 mpg = ~30 mpg average mpg for the "Corvette family"
2025 with all GSs and 25% of the Base C8's being hybrids = ~34 mpg average mpg for the "Corvette family"
2026 (max required mpg year per CA/Ford et all agreement ) all LT2 engine C8’s are all hybrids = 39 mpg.
Assume the "Corvette Family" mpg goal reduces from the current 3-year-old EPA ~40 mpg to ~35 mpg. A ~35 average mpg could be possible in normal drive cycle tests including the Z06 and Zora expected lower mpg, as they will also be hybrids. The Z06 and Zora will probably have more that 114 hp electric FWD, but all, WITH whatever ICEs, IN NORMAL DRIVING, starting when the Vette reaches near cruising speed powered with only hybrid electric motor .
When driving aggressively both the ICE and FWD hybrid power are used together and additive. So you get the added acceleration and traction coming out of a turn or for improved 0 to 60 times! The EPA (as now) doesn't measure mpg at large throttle openings since only a small percentage of the average car is used that way!
A lot of the info in this thread makes a lot of sense if you look at the C8 needing to meet government regulations. Thanks to the posters for helping me better understand the reasoning behind the C8/future C8.
The one thing I like is the Idea of AWD and a front electric 'boost motor' to help acceleration.
As for some other the features it sounds like the government is out to ruin the fun cars again just like in the 70's. I'm sure GM will do its best but it still sucks, and I don't have to like it.
I Certainly hate to see no manual as its so much more fun to drive, and the idea of cruising around being powered by a small electric motor for regular driving and not hearing and feeling that V8 rumble or enjoying its idle just kind of sucks it sort of spoils the whole experience. I realize GM may be forced to do it but it still sucks.
The really dumb thing is most Corvette owners do not care about MPG and most won't drive these cars enough for the government to even need to be concerned about thier enviromental impact. But I get that this is government regulations and will apply to all vehicles regrdless of likely use.
Doen't mean i'm going to cheer lead the whole thing though.
The older I get the less interest I have in new cars, epecially with all this govenrment mumbo jumbo forcing design changes. I could buy a new one cash today if I wanted but I find myself just prefering the older vehicles, and I'm pretty much the demographic GM wants with the C8.
If this is the direction things are going then so be it, but I've got no interest at all the resulting vehicles, I'd rather just spend the same amount of money playing with older corvettes and other older 'fun' cars.
All wheel drive C8
) This was an interesting comment about the by-wire brake assist: "Once you start thinking about a hybrid Corvette, by-wire assist really starts to pay dividends. Hybrids use blended brake systems that continually shift braking duties between regenerative braking and conventional friction braking. This leads to inconsistent and unusual pedal feel that a by-wire assist eliminates!" Recall F1 drivers having to consider IF their KERS would be braking aggressively to charge their small battery to define how much friction bake was needed when braking for a turn.
