With all due respect, I think the next "transformational shift" is happening right under YOUR nose and you're not even noticing it! If you think that public buying patterns shifting from cars to pick-up trucks is more culturally transformational then what is currently happening right now with EV's... well, you are entitled to your opinion.

If a car like the Bolt isn't selling well or has problems, then the price gets cut or it gets discontinued. Whether or not it is EV, ICE, or runs on "trash" like the "Back to the Future" famous time travel car (flux capacitor!), makes no difference!!

This is a much more insightful explanation for the Bolt discount pricing being offered.

Have you driven a recent model EV before? You are making it sound MUCH worse then the reality, by over-emphasizing the con's and under-emphasizing the pro's.

 

Since we’re talking disruption and EV’s anyone want to venture a guess as to who the “Big 3” will be 5 years from now? I’m old enough to remember when it was GM, Ford, Chrysler. My bet is:

1. Tesla
2. Hyundai/Kia
3. GM

Going further down the list…

4. Volkswagen
5. NIO

The others will all be absorbed by the 5 above. Thoughts?

Edit: I’d add Lucid to the list somewhere by virtue of their novel motor technology but they have to scale before they run out of money. Disclaimer: I’ve ordered a Lucid Air Grand Touring and picked up a couple thousand shares of stock because I believe their technology holds promise and the Saudis are backing it.

 

Mods: Probably worth moving this thread to “off-topic” since we haven’t had much C8 discussion here.

 

So you think it's too late for Toyota to become one of the major EV players?

I certainly wouldn't bet against your list, although right now I think it may be too early to tell. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun making predictions!!

 

The Japanese, despite their early lead in hybrids, seem to have missed the boat on EVs. In fact, Honda’s first EVs will be built by GM on the Ultium platform in Spring Hill, TN. If you squint your eyes looking at Honda’s upcoming EV crossover, you can almost see a Cadillac Lyriq. Certainly fun to speculate though!

I bought some Tesla stock shortly after I bought my first Tesla and it has more than paid for the car. I’m hoping for similar luck with Lucid!

 

I'm not sure you understand the analogy based on that second sentence.

Cars are more convenient and cheaper than a horse today, not when they were first becoming available to the general public.

 

I watched a Formula E race on TV the other day just to see how I would like it. It was awful. There was hardly anyone in the stands either. The entire race was about whether there would be enough battery to finish the race.

 

No. An EV does the same thing as any other car. It’s like saying an Ecoboost F-150 is a “transformational shift” over a V8 F-150. You think you’re living in some game changing time period, but you’re not. You’re going do what you’ve done before, but maybe only feel slightly less guilty doing it. It’s like buying a diesel but quieter.

It’s the exact same explanation I offered. If it’s not popular, they have to cut the price even if it’s more expensive to make. The “transformational shift” wasn’t enough to make the Bolt popular because it’s not fast and it isn’t a truck. Most EVs are not really any faster than their ICE counterparts. People think “Tesla” when they think EV but totally forget about Bolt and Leaf, ID4, and C40 and all the ones that don’t really sell all that well.


Yes! Several. In fact I tried all summer to buy one. Only because I wanted to scratch the itch and gas prices shot up to $5. Now that tax credit got cut, prices went up, and gas prices dropped its become financially unfeasible and the drive experience alone wasn’t worth the upcharge. In fact the drive experience alone wasn’t even a factor as I found it rather boring and was only going after the efficiency aspect.

After reading every owners manual, every review, and every YouTube video for the past 4 months, I realized there’s a lot more cons than EV fanatics would like to talk about.

some common themes on every owners manual:
1) Dont charge to 100% often or you’ll reduce battery life
2) Dont store at 100% or you’ll reduce battery life
3) Don’t store at under 20% or you’ll reduce battery life.
4) Don’t fast charge frequently or you’ll reduce battery life.
5) Excessive heat reduces battery life
6) Fast charging is only good up to 80% then slows to a trickle for the next 20%
7) Cold or hot weather slows charging speeds
8) Range severely reduces in cold weather

Ok so maybe there’s some quirks to ownership to keep in mind and objectively not as convenient on a long trip as there’s some mission planning involved and maybe your battery won’t hold the same charge as the car ages depending on your driving habits, but they’re fun to drive right?

Not really. With the exception of Tesla, most EVs typically run 7 second 0-60 times unless you opt for all wheel drive (which generally cost around $5k upcharge and reduces range) then you usually get about 5 second 0-60 times for around $55 to $60k. Tesla’s are quicker, hold better resell (with some caveats) but are long in the tooth and fairly spartan while pushing entry level C8 prices. Like any other car, if it’s not fast or have some other gimmicks going on, it’s just another appliance.

But what about efficiency?
At my energy prices the best EVs are good for about $.04 a mile (this doesn’t include charging losses or take into account winter inefficiencies). Their hybrid counterparts are also good for about $.04 a mile at todays gas prices and are about $10k cheaper. Neither are fun to drive but to be fair neither are their gas counterparts. Insurance cost are higher. With the exception of Tesla, none of the residuals bode well for resell. We’re talking sub 50% residuals in 36 months. Trying to save money can cost you a lot in an EV. That’s where tax credits come in but even before they got chopped it’s hard to justify. In places like California with chronic $6 gas maybe the math shakes out better.

As for EV trucks on paper they seem great. The Lightning fixes all that’s not great about an F-150 but towing range is only good for about 90 miles and if you did happen to find a charger it won’t be a pull through. So kinda useless as a truck also.


So those are cons, what about the pros?
1) quieter propulsion
2) no gas station visits
3) no oil changes

It’s a much shorter list.

 

People in cities didn’t own horses. Do you think cities like New York and San Fransisco had giant parking garage stables for the city dweller’s horses?
Horses are work 24/7. They consume food regardless if you’re riding them or not. Shoveling crap out of stables is a full time job. They were expensive. They stink. They can get temperamental. They take up a lot of space. They were always a hassle. The reason cars took off is because most people didn’t own horses at all.

 

20 years ago a list of big cell phone players in the future would have been Nokia, Blackberry, and Motorola. It’s fun to predict, but I’ve never seen an accurate prediction.

 

Just because something has emerged doesn’t mean it’s profitable. Currently it’s cheaper to mine more fresh lithium than it is to recycle old batteries.

EV technology has the cart before the horse and hoping the horse catches up to make the sustainability argument work in time.

 

So at sub zero temperatures, your car somehow only loses about 10% efficiency without preconditioning when everyone else seems to lose about half their range in the same conditions. If it’s too cold for your regen to work then you can’t charge your car either,

Makes me wonder how many of your other post are you embellishing?

 

No the battery warms as it discharges so if you have a longer trip, the impact is less. Most of the trips in that car are 3-4 hour rides.

Edit: I know why the impact may be less on mine. It sits in a garage, so I’m never starting from a pack that’s sat outside in subzero temps. If I ever do, I’ll check and see what the consumption rate is.

 

Not true in the future, which is why some such as myself are so upset. In California, by 2035 the only new vehicle you can purchase will be an EV. There will be no ICE option.

 

Then to continue the "ONE, TWO" punch to end ICE, Los Angeles, along with several other cities are discontinuing permitting of new fueling stations.

Los Angeles may ban new gas stations to help combat climate emergency | Los Angeles | The Guardian

Eventually you will only be able to buy used ICE vehicles, but you probably won't want to BC you'll drive for miles and miles just to find gas. Also, by then states like CA might just not allow an ICE vehicle to register in the state.

 

“If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse.” Henry Ford.

 

Totally understand that. As much as I like my EV, I like my ICE vehicles as well and I like having the freedom of choice to own them all.

 

Is Electric the Answer: NO when it comes to transportation.

Not enough generating capacity in the urban areas to make it work
No ability to construct new Nuclear plants (the only possible energy source) due to the unavailability of people with the skills to weld up the systems.
BAttery costs will only increease as resources for them dwindle, and the batteries themselves may be 5 year replacement items
Impossible to charge both personal cars and commercial vehicles at the same time due to the orders of power needed for commercial trucks in addition to cars.

And ultimately far too Environmentally destructive to the planet..

 

Whenever I see the phrase "Climate Emergency", I know I am reading propaganda. Los Angeles has turned into a Third World homeless dump anyway. They don't have cars, because they don't work.

 

Trudat....