disappointing z06 markup
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I am pretty sure selling cars way below current market value isn't the key to financial success for GM. At the moment, market value for Z06 is 50-100K over MSRP. I have no idea why you think GM would be upset at dealers that are up front about pricing and maximizing their profit. I understand it is not ideal when you can't financially afford the vehicle you desire. Z06 is certainly priced out of my pay grade at this time! But that is the nature of a free market economy...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2021
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From: Texas
So, it is ok for the dealer to make 50-100K over MSRP, but the buyer can not even sell the car within 6 months or the GM warranty will be voided to the person he or she sells to? Sounds like GM could care less about the ultimate customer and favor the dealer!
Also...it is not the flippers ruining things, if the dealers were all selling at MSRP there would be no flippers!
Also...it is not the flippers ruining things, if the dealers were all selling at MSRP there would be no flippers!
If you think dealer ADMs are the only reason flippers exist I have a bridge to sell you.
As long as there is a substantial waitlist flippers will exist. Even if EVERY dealer sold at MSRP, many if not most of those purchases would be "flipped" by the first owner.
Good grief.
Last edited by Korbek; Jan 4, 2023 at 11:47 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Mequon WI
Here's the thing about most of the folks who are willing to pay 50-100k over sticker... They don't care because they can afford not to care, they aren't playing the same game as the average buyer. Interest rates don't mean **** when you pay cash, depreciation doesn't mean **** if you want the car bad enough. Its hard for the average person to understand because we aren't all playing the same game in life. To some folks 50k is pocket money. The dealers know this, and gladly will exploit it.
To most sports star players $200k is less than a week's paycheck.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Mequon WI
Or, you are a master plumber making $42.00 plus bennies per hour. New construction project needs all the plumbers they can get and are paying $50.00 per hour with more bennies. Do you raise your wage demands? You might change jobs for the higher wage or you might stay where you are because you have a steady job at a company you like and worry that your secure job might be gone two years from now when the construction job is finished. No one can make that choice for you.
If I was one of those who after waiting 4 years for a Z06 got one of those just made and somebody came along and gave me an additional $50K, he would be driving away in a new car and I would have $50K in my pocket. We would both be smiling and it should bother no one. If th $50K doesn't convince me to sell then no deal is made and it should bother no one. Frustrated buyer? Sure. Solution- offer more money.
Or, you can call your Senator, offer him a grand for a new law and really eff things up.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Bluffton SC via Canton Oh
Here's the thing about most of the folks who are willing to pay 50-100k over sticker... They don't care because they can afford not to care, they aren't playing the same game as the average buyer. Interest rates don't mean **** when you pay cash, depreciation doesn't mean **** if you want the car bad enough. Its hard for the average person to understand because we aren't all playing the same game in life. To some folks 50k is pocket money. The dealers know this, and gladly will exploit it.
You buy a Z, pay 50k or more, dump it in a year move on to the next toy, pocket change.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2021
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From: Cincinnati
I just paid $8 for a carton of 18 eggs!!! lol. I guess the chickens joined the union and received a substantial raise. Markups are happening everywhere.
Expect things to get much worse, and don't expect any noticeable improvement at least until November 2024.
Expect things to get much worse, and don't expect any noticeable improvement at least until November 2024.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2019
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From: Houston
I remember when people were trying to wire money to Ciccoa or whoever it was by noon to secure a place in line. That came down to luck or availability. Then you have those calling 50 dealerships across the US to get on a list in hopes of MSRP. Money is a great equalizer. Don't have to play the same games.
At the end of the day every new C8Z will be spoken for at MSRP minimum. GM will make their money and people will continue to want and buy their cars no matter how much they complain. Be happy you can even afford the car at MSRP.
At the end of the day every new C8Z will be spoken for at MSRP minimum. GM will make their money and people will continue to want and buy their cars no matter how much they complain. Be happy you can even afford the car at MSRP.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: NE South Carolina
What would you have the dealer do? Sell to whoever walks in the door, even a past customer, and turns around with no overhead, staff or property tax etc to pay, risking nothing and sells it for $25,000 to $50,000 over what they just paid???
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It's not dealer's causing the issue, it's demand and FLIPPERS.
What would you have the dealer do? Sell to whoever walks in the door, even a past customer, and turns around with no overhead, staff or property tax etc to pay, risking nothing and sells it for $25,000 to $50,000 over what they just paid???
What would you have the dealer do? Sell to whoever walks in the door, even a past customer, and turns around with no overhead, staff or property tax etc to pay, risking nothing and sells it for $25,000 to $50,000 over what they just paid???
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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From: NE South Carolina
I still fail to see why flippers are the issue either. If one has the means to buy the car, regardless if they paid above, under, or at MSRP, and they can leave the lot and make $20 grand, who does it hurt? It doesn't hurt the dealer, they made their money, it doesn't hurt GM they made their money, it doesn't hurt the seller, they made their money, and guess what... the end consumer is still happy even if they did pay more. Again very specifically explain who is hurt in those 4 transactions cause I'm not seeing it.
I thought what GM did with the Z06 would stop some of that, i.e. if sold within a year it voids the warranty! That was reduced to 6 months and with a lawyer (who'd take the case on contingency for half the profit) can probably win in court! Yep many lawyers "for injured folks" (not all) and Flippers are similar!
Last edited by JerryU; Jan 4, 2023 at 01:22 PM.
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Whos forcing the dealers to sell at MSRP? Last I checked unless we're talking a hypothetical scenario where dealers have to sell at MSRP, the dealers set their price. That invalidates the entire thing right there. The dealers can set their price, the flippers can set theirs, and the market can decide what its willing to pay. Consumers can either pay more money now, or wait for MSRP at a dealership that does so. The only people hurt are the ones who cant afford to pony up now but lack the patience to wait.
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and the same goes for flippers. Problem is some want instant gratification and are willing to pay a price for it.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: NE South Carolina
^^^
Some just have the money! Recall when I put on Facebook my 2020 C8 arrived after 13 months my friend in CA commented his neighbor just got hers the same day she saw it at the dealer! She paid $25,000 over MSRP. But he said don't feel bad for her, she own's 6 McDonalds!
In fact I'm sure there are some folks in Hollywood who saw one and decided they would rather drive it to the beach instead of their Ferrari. They just asked one of their "people" to get one. Price probably was never mentioned in the request conversation!
Some just have the money! Recall when I put on Facebook my 2020 C8 arrived after 13 months my friend in CA commented his neighbor just got hers the same day she saw it at the dealer! She paid $25,000 over MSRP. But he said don't feel bad for her, she own's 6 McDonalds!
In fact I'm sure there are some folks in Hollywood who saw one and decided they would rather drive it to the beach instead of their Ferrari. They just asked one of their "people" to get one. Price probably was never mentioned in the request conversation!
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Spring Texas
Why isn't the MSRP from GM the original MSRP + 75k? GM is leaving money on the table. Of course, there are not a lot of them being produced: 10% of production which could be 225M a year free profit. Not chump change.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Magnolia TX
Talked with my dealer last week on the status of the Z06 list. I am at 40 so could be a year or two or ??. I asked about the ADM. He stated that they would be at 30K over for the near future but he wasn’t sure how the economy and interest rates are going to affect the take rate. There may be some relief coming but for most of us, the cost to eat and survive may change our opinions on what toys we think we need.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2018
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From: Venice, Fl
I am pretty sure selling cars way below current market value isn't the key to financial success for GM. At the moment, market value for Z06 is 50-100K over MSRP. I have no idea why you think GM would be upset at dealers that are up front about pricing and maximizing their profit. I understand it is not ideal when you can't financially afford the vehicle you desire. Z06 is certainly priced out of my pay grade at this time! But that is the nature of a free market economy...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2021
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From: Texas
Because if they did that they would have to price the inevitable ZR1 (and potential Zorra) into the stratosphere. And if/when the artificial scarcity ends they wouldnt be able to lower prices back to more realistic levels because prior purchasers would be furious. Best to let the dealers be the bad guy.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: NE South Carolina
Because if they did that they would have to price the inevitable ZR1 (and potential Zorra) into the stratosphere. And if/when the artificial scarcity ends they wouldnt be able to lower prices back to more realistic levels because prior purchasers would be furious. Best to let the dealers be the bad guy.
Funny how folks blame dealers. Several large dealers still only get (got) MSRP but filled their allocation for years the first day! I think flippers are the real issue. With no overhead, employees to pay, property taxes and other overhead they make whatever "the market will pay" with little if any risk! Some dealers are just doing the same rather than sell to them at MSRP.
GM would be foolish to ask for more or take bids for the relatively small $'s! It would not affect Mary Barra's bonus a dime compared to their ~1.5 billion annual sales of cars and trucks!