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I think all the choices are good. What makes you think the way you want things to work is the way I (and everyone else) wants them to work. Once you get it set up, you don't really have to mess with it any more.
Oh, and why 4 cylinders? So I can get 32 mpg on the highway, and save some money, while still enjoying almost 500 HP when I want it.
I am a lucky guy, I have owned a lot of nice cars (911’s, M3’s, an RS5, S4, C63s, C43’s, 550i, 750i those were the highlights) and some flexibility is great, especially for high performance models that benefit from settings that make them more useable in normal driving. But the last three or four years many manufacturers seem to be going overboard because they don’t know what else to do to make their car stand out against the competition.
Mercedes is trying to make the EV EQS line stand out by essentially making the entire dash area including the passenger side one big screen.
I love cars. The mechanical genius of cars is amazing. I just want enough tech to make the mechanical parts work. But that’s just me. I bought a C8 for the mechanical genius of a mid engine super car. Not for screens and tiles and the ability to change the screens and tiles. Actually for the left side of the dash instead of only showing two engine parameters at a time with the ability to swap 3 or 4 more. It would be better if gm picked the top 4 or 5 and showed them all. If Porsche can show 5 parameters in less space….
I love tech in vehicles. It makes power and performance more approachable. Not that long ago, a car making 500hp would be beyond the skill of most drivers... Same thing with bikes... Today's 1000's are packing the power of a $2M MotoGP bike from 20 years ago... That's insane that we sell 450lbs machines with 200hp+ to the public. But we can do that, because of modern electronics packages... You can make them both faster, and safer, and that's a win win...
Cars are no different. They don't tend to fall over so they are a little more forgiving, but it largely applies to them too... Push a button and its a smooth, comfortable and relatively economic grand tourer... Push another button and it's a track day monster. I like a vehicle that adapts to different skill levels and different purposes.
The fly in the ointment usually has less to do with the tech, and more to do with the interface... Design it to be clean and intuitive and it works well. Make it so that you need to be an engineer to sort it all out and not so much...
I love tech in vehicles. It makes power and performance more approachable. Not that long ago, a car making 500hp would be beyond the skill of most drivers... Same thing with bikes... Today's 1000's are packing the power of a $2M MotoGP bike from 20 years ago... That's insane that we sell 450lbs machines with 200hp+ to the public. But we can do that, because of modern electronics packages... You can make them both faster, and safer, and that's a win win...
Cars are no different. They don't tend to fall over so they are a little more forgiving, but it largely applies to them too... Push a button and its a smooth, comfortable and relatively economic grand tourer... Push another button and it's a track day monster. I like a vehicle that adapts to different skill levels and different purposes.
The fly in the ointment usually has less to do with the tech, and more to do with the interface... Design it to be clean and intuitive and it works well. Make it so that you need to be an engineer to sort it all out and not so much...
+1
The tech is how we can have ~ 500 HP and still meet EPA emissions and MPG standards. Tech is how we can get 0-60 in under 3 seconds and 1G cornering while dealing with all the weight necessary to meet safety standards. Etc., etc. The tech in today's bikes is amazing. ABS that takes in account lean angles, traction control ditto, anti-wheelie control no matter how ham-fisted the rider is. Tech that only existed on MotoGP bikes a decade ago.
The C8 is not only a track and winding back road beast, it's a comfortable grand tourer with room for 2 people and their gear. It's ridiculously good at almost everything.
Posting for the record/research. AFM goes ‘clunk’ after DCT service
After 20 mins of reading these posts I thought I throw in my weird one.
2022 HTC Z51 Stingray 4300 miles.
Just the facts in case this helps in the future.
I got my htc with 2200 miles used in June. I had been driving it every other day for about 2,000 more miles. Took it in for the free big DCT service and they added 2 liters trans oil that I requested in the process. I noticed the loud ‘clunk’ from the rear (top up or top down, it doesn’t matter) every time it switched to V4.. I never heard this for 2000 miles before taking it in.
Is there any relationship with the trans oil change or interaction with the transmission? I can’t imagine that would cause the AFM value noise.
Have it scheduled for the dealer to take a look. I’m kind of expecting them to say they all do that, OR they will see something wrong pretty quick.
Why would anyone want to do this??? Keep it in Manual mode if it's that big a deal??? When cruising down the highway, who wouldn't want to save a few cents on gas?? When having fun, driving it like a Vette, the AFM won't kick in anyway, and if you are worried it will, keep in in Manual...problem solved...
Why would anyone want to do this??? Keep it in Manual mode if it's that big a deal??? When cruising down the highway, who wouldn't want to save a few cents on gas?? When having fun, driving it like a Vette, the AFM won't kick in anyway, and if you are worried it will, keep in in Manual...problem solved...
Or some you don't want to use Manual Mode (as I stopped after accelerating from a stop sign at the end of our rural road to a 4-lane divided highway with often heavy traffic going ~70 mph and the upshift paddle being out of position hit the Rev Limiter at ~34 mph in the blink of an eye. No fun with traffic coming up fast behind! After doing that a few times switched to a better option for me.) I used Z-Mode Power set to track and never V4. If you don't like that it won't shift past 5th until about 72 mph (actually my preferred situation) then can pull a paddle to a higher gear.
But 5th OD gear ratio of 0.65:1 good enough for me! Who need 0.33:1 8th gear if not on an Interstate? Only GM to get a slightly better mg for EPA!
Maybe the complaining might subside a bit if people realize that AFM might be saving them thousands off the MSRP due to EPA's fuel mileage $$ penalty.
It very well could adding overall expense with all the engineering and complication added to internal engine valve train and fuel delivery components..The C8 wouldn't qualify for the fuel tax without it either...I doubt you could see the MPG savings it on a normal tank calculation... Most likely way < 1 on its best day
I'm sure it is just programming. Just turns off the injectors.
I hope you are joking. AFM is a lot more that "just programming".
Cylinder deactivation is accomplished by not allowing the intake and exhaust valves to open on the selected cylinders by using special valve lifters. The deactivation lifters contain spring loaded locking pins that connect the internal pin housing of the lifter to the outer housing. The pin housing contains the lifter plunger and pushrod seat which interfaces with the pushrod. The outer housing contacts the camshaft lobe through a roller. During V8 mode, the locking pins are pushed outward by spring force, locking the pin housing and outer housing together causing the lifter to function as a normal lifter. When V4 mode is commanded ON, the locking pins are pushed inward with engine oil pressure directed from the valve lifter oil manifold (VLOM) assembly solenoids. When the lifter pin housing is unlocked from the outer housing, the internal pin housing will remain stationary, while the outer housing will move with the profile of the camshaft lobe, which results in the valve remaining closed.
Here's an animation of AFM on the C7 Corvette (same principal on the C8).
between fuel management systems, emissions systems, safety systems, DEF for diesels and all the other things car companies have had to add and engineer for the cars and trucks- none of it has made them easier to work on or more reliable. Rocketman was being cracking wise.
Disabling AFM does nothing for reliability of the lifters. It's 2024 AFM has come a long way run it the way the vehicle was designed.
As have many things but it still adds additional cost and complexity for questionable returns. Car companies are scrambling and clawing at any fractional improvement in mpg to meet ever tighter EPA standards… the problem is the standards weren’t designed to be met, they were designed to kill off internal combustion vehicles…. AFM may or may not be a problem with our engines three years, five years, ten years from now. I guess we’ll find out however if the C8 build tool gave consumers the option to order a C8
Without AFM that gets 15mpg City / 24mpg Highway
or
With AFM that gets 16mpg City / 25mpg Highway
Although the AFM engine obviously costs more to manufacture…. even if gm offered the AFM engine for no additional charge my bet would be most people would order the regular, less parts to fail, standard (non-AFM) motor.
I'm sure it is just programming. Just turns off the injectors.
If only…. It’s a whole mechanical mess of AFM specific parts deep inside the engine….. however the software is obviously what activates the system forcing the engine to run in V4 mode. Apparently running the transmission in manual mode prevents AFM from activating. Someone technical must be able to make the engine “think” it’s in manual mode therefore permanently preventing AFM from activating.
Someone figured out how to prevent the “skip shift” function in old manual transmission cars, and the same for auto engine shut off in other gm vehicles (someone figured out how to turn that off permanently).
We need a technical solution to disable AFM activation AND turn off data extraction/transfer.
I imagine unplugging a solenoid somewhere would stop the AFM from working, but I suspect the ECU would flag it as something catastrophic and go into limp mode. This is when I like to ping @Andybump for a wiring diagram 😊
I imagine unplugging a solenoid somewhere would stop the AFM from working, but I suspect the ECU would flag it as something catastrophic and go into limp mode. This is when I like to ping @Andybump for a wiring diagram 😊
I thought cars in general, over the last few years have completely jumped the shark on technology. Everyone I talk to, if they have a fairly new car, thinks their car has too much technology that they don’t know how to use or even what it does…
My wife bought a new Forrester. She loved the old one but it needed a lot of work so time for a new one.
Six months later I’m not sure we made the right call. The old and new were both mid range Forresters. The old one was trouble free of years. Now we had the new one at least once a month I get “I think I pushed a button (which there are three times more) and something lit up on the dashboard. I have no idea what it is can you please” … and this is a Subaru.
The C8 takes that starting point and multiples by ten…. Just reviewing the screen that lists all the software licenses the car apparently needs to function is staggering… and I imagine two thirds of those licenses are for things most people don’t use or are even aware what is does.
As have many things but it still adds additional cost and complexity for questionable returns. Car companies are scrambling and clawing at any fractional improvement in mpg to meet ever tighter EPA standards… the problem is the standards weren’t designed to be met, they were designed to kill off internal combustion vehicles…. AFM may or may not be a problem with our engines three years, five years, ten years from now. I guess we’ll find out however if the C8 build tool gave consumers the option to order a C8
Without AFM that gets 15mpg City / 24mpg Highway
or
With AFM that gets 16mpg City / 25mpg Highway
Although the AFM engine obviously costs more to manufacture…. even if gm offered the AFM engine for no additional charge my bet would be most people would order the regular, less parts to fail, standard (non-AFM) motor.
Most C8 buyers just want a great sports car….
Yep, most are not happy as April 15th approaches paying their taxes! It's NOT a question of what we want it's what is dictaed for whatever reason.
I don't think many on the forum understand the early EPA mpg requirement that had the Corvette requiring ~39 mpg in 2026 STOPPED by a Pen January 2017. It was reinstated in April 2022 at a reduced Average for all cars of 49 mpg (the original EPA average car would have achieved 54 mpg! ) There is a press release defining the 54 mpg!
That press release summarized a 1174-page report (I read) that showed many car family requirements including the Corvette (see below.) And some said "Oh I'll Pay The Gas Guzzler Tax!" What a joke, the folks who developed that system did it to cut CO2 emissions in half were NOT going to let rich Corvette, Ferrari etc owner's pay money and destroy the World while others scarified! It was a prohibitive fine on the car manufacturer. Might as well not sell any Corvettes!
Details of the 2022 Plan are not out. Will be IMO January 2025! Frankly I'll accept all things that can help reduce the 85% wasted gasoline energy that goes into heat versus moving the car forward. Yep the ICE is that inefficient! V8/V4 and Stop Start I have on my E-Ray is fine, I don't shut it off!
Those looking for a defeat to V4 are kidding themselves as what is coming is far worse.
Yep, most are not happy as April 15th approaches paying their taxes! It's NOT a question of what we want it's what is dictaed for whatever reason.
I don't think many on the forum understand the early EPA mpg requirement that had the Corvette requiring ~39 mpg in 2026 STOPPED by a Pen January 2017. It was reinstated in April 2022 at a reduced Average for all cars of 49 mpg (the original EPA average car would have achieved 54 mpg! ) There is a press release defining the 54 mpg!
That press release summarized a 1174-page report (I read) that showed many car family requirements including the Corvette (see below.) And some said "Oh I'll Pay The Gas Guzzler Tax!" What a joke, the folks who developed that system did it to cut CO2 emissions in half were NOT going to let rich Corvette, Ferrari etc owner's pay money and destroy the World while others scarified! It was a prohibitive fine on the car manufacturer. Might as well not sell any Corvettes!
Details of the 2022 Plan are not out. Will be IMO January 2025! Frankly I'll accept all things that can help reduce the 85% wasted gasoline energy that goes into heat versus moving the car forward. Yep the ICE is that inefficient! V8/V4 and Stop Start I have on my E-Ray is fine, I don't shut it off!
Those looking for a defeat to V4 are kidding themselves as what is coming is far worse.
The volumes of 'sports' cars like the C8, Ferraris, etc are just not enough to make any meaningful difference on the environment. The EPA and the manufacturers need to go after SUVs and Light Trucks as they are sold in gigantic numbers and curbing their emmissions may actually make a difference at least in the US. The rest of the world still drives much smaller vehicles and also don't have to deal with EPA so who cares about those
Most likely way < 1 on its best day
It was a prohibitive fine on the car manufacturer. Might as well not sell any Corvettes!
