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Old Aug 26, 2023 | 02:59 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by 92rsz
Why is asking for a 40% pay increase ridiculous when every CEO got a 40% increase? They all make over 20 million. A worker that didn't get a raise for 10 years and watched their buying power greatly diminish is the one that's ridiculous? Not sure about cars, but they've got $30k in a truck they're charging $50k for. That's ridiculous!
As I said in an earlier post Americans have and continue to suffer the ravages of inflation. The average family has seen their real dollar value reduced by 30% over the last three years. Auto prices have skyrocketed and the cost to finance them is now over 8%! Add on top of that no automakers are giving any discounts or rebates. So you are telling us we need to feel sorry for the UAW. That’s ridiculous.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:08 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Maxie2U
As I said in an earlier post Americans have and continue to suffer the ravages of inflation. The average family has seen their real dollar value reduced by 30% over the last three years. Auto prices have skyrocketed and the cost to finance them is now over 8%! Add on top of that no automakers are giving any discounts or rebates. So you are telling us we need to feel sorry for the UAW. That’s ridiculous.
The UAW will get an increase in profits, bonuses, pay, etc…for the union bosses. My opinion is it’s always about the bosses at the union.

Getting hosed is the everyday person.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:09 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by 92rsz
Why is asking for a 40% pay increase ridiculous when every CEO got a 40% increase? They all make over 20 million. A worker that didn't get a raise for 10 years and watched their buying power greatly diminish is the one that's ridiculous? Not sure about cars, but they've got $30k in a truck they're charging $50k for. That's ridiculous!
Always been supportive of entrepreneurs who risk their own money and should earn whatever. Never been supportive of Wallstreet types or CEO's who risk nothing and get big bucks. CEO's who look only at short term results because that is what their bonus is based; don't risk their own money are not like entrepreneurs. However that is not GM! GM has one CEO and her salary has NO effect on a Corvette price. It's below a penny/car. Silly way to look at compensation.

SIDEBAR
Mary Barra has a tough demanding job. She probably knows more about car manufacture than most other Auto CEOs. Started at GM when 18 and was initially responsible for inspections, such as checking on hoods and fenders, She used the money she earned to cover her college costs. She held various positions in engineering and administration, working to become the manager of the Detroit Assembly plant. Barra became the Vice President of Global Manufacturing Engineering. She became the VP of Global Human Resources before moving on to become the VP of Global Product Development.

Her role extended to cover Global Purchasing and Supply Chain before she eventually worked her way to the top, becoming the CEO in 2014.


Last edited by JerryU; Aug 26, 2023 at 03:23 PM.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:14 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by 92rsz
Why is asking for a 40% pay increase ridiculous when every CEO got a 40% increase? They all make over 20 million. A worker that didn't get a raise for 10 years and watched their buying power greatly diminish is the one that's ridiculous? Not sure about cars, but they've got $30k in a truck they're charging $50k for. That's ridiculous!
What do you think is the appropriate mark up on a vehicle. Do you think the government should regulate margins in the auto industry?
Just curious.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:18 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Foosh
Yes, and that proves what I said. Under the Railway Labor Act, President Reagan had the authority to end the strike because of the total disruption of the air transportation system. Secondly, air traffic controllers were and still are federal employees, who were not then, and still are not allowed to strike under US federal law.

Thus, that POTUS was double-covered with powers to end the strike and fire all striking controllers. Before firing the controllers, the White House warned that they would be fired if they did not return to work because they were not allowed to strike as federal employees. Those who did not heed that warning were fired. Many came back to work and kept their jobs. ATC managers, who were not union members, filled in the gaps.
Yes I know. I checked Wikipedia. He did order them back to work under the Taft Hartley act (so you are right he did invoke that). But then many of them refused. He fired over 11000 and banned them from federal service for life. Vacant positions were filled with non-participating controllers, supervisors, staff personnel, some non-rated personnel, military controllers, and controllers transferred temporarily from other facilities. Their fledgling union, PATCO was decertified. It took close to 10 years before the overall staffing levels returned to normal. Some fired controllers were allowed to reapply after 1986 and were rehired. Their new union is National Air Traffic Controllers Association. The civil service ban on the remaining strike participants was lifted on August 12, 1993. By 2006 only 850 PATCO strikers had been rehired by the FAA.








Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:19 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Maxie2U
As I said in an earlier post Americans have and continue to suffer the ravages of inflation. The average family has seen their real dollar value reduced by 30% over the last three years. Auto prices have skyrocketed and the cost to finance them is now over 8%! Add on top of that no automakers are giving any discounts or rebates. So you are telling us we need to feel sorry for the UAW. That’s ridiculous.
I'll leave this right here. We are currently back (in terms of wages vs. inflation) to where we were 3 years ago.

Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dale fehrenbach
What do you think is the appropriate mark up on a vehicle. Do you think the government should regulate margins in the auto industry?
Just curious.
Contractors usually build a 20% profit into their bid packages and that seems to be a universally agreed upon fair margin. They do pretty well at that rate. Trucks are on the order of 60% profit and that's obscene if you ask me. I don't think the government should get involved that defeats the purpose of capitalism. The only way it stops is when people speak with their wallets and they have no choice but to reduce prices to move product. People want what they can't have so now you have crazy prices and markups
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 03:48 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Foosh
I'll leave this right here. We are currently back (in terms of wages vs. inflation) to where we were 3 years ago.

Only because employers are having to pay higher wages to get people back to work after the free Covid money. The increase cost is passed onto the consumer. Kinda funny how the tail wags the dog. Employees want better wages, Raising the cost of goods they purchase, now they need more money and a better wage, costs of goods increase, wages need to go up to offset inflation, costs of goods goes up again.

Tail wagging the dog.

This is simplistically put. Since there are more factors involved. I’m just putting out how humans think creating their own problems.
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Old Aug 26, 2023 | 04:02 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by JerryU
Yep, wife is on her 3rd BMW X5 SUV. As you say it's made in Greenville SC as are the Continental tires in Sumter SC!

Wife likes them more than the Porsche Cayenne the 1st replaced. Thank goodness as service is in town and far more reasonable. We have had zero issues! In fact daughter in OH has the 2018 and drives ~50 miles to work every day. Her's runs great!
The technology in one car is Atari era. The other one is modern.


The Atari technology mobile is my high schoolers first car and I totally expect him to bang it up. 🤪 I did the performance center delivery on the M50i and highly recommend it.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxie2U
Additionally the UAW is demanding a 32 hour work week but workers are to be paid for a 40 hour work week. Which amounts to an additional 52 days of vacation per year. Add that to their current vacation and holiday pay they would receive just shy of 90 days (3 months!) of vacation per year while demanding a 40% pay increase. That’s outrageous!

And you know the automakers will simply increase the sale price of every car so in the end we take it in the end.
Recall in the mid 1970's when we went thru similar issues with UAW demands and Auto companies caved. GM was having a hard time getting employees to work 5 day at the Lordstown OH plant . It was among the highest-volume, single-line vehicle assembly facilities in the world. They were calling in sick etc and on average were working only 4 days a week. An OH TV News interview asked an employee why he was working 4 days a week? His answer, can't make enough money in 3!

The Lordstown plant no longer exists and US Auto Company Market Shares can decrease further:
  • GM = ~16% market share.
  • Toyota = ~15%
  • Ford = ~13%
  • Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram = ~12%
  • Hyundai Group= ~10%
  • Honda= ~7% market
  • VW = ~4% with, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes etc lower

Last edited by JerryU; Aug 26, 2023 at 04:32 PM.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 04:37 PM
  #131  
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I would not be surprised if the rest of the automakers adopt Tesla’s upcoming manufacturing innovation that will reduce the number of assembly line workers by 50%. Tesla already has the lowest assembly line workers in the industry.

Be careful what you ask for UAW because it’s likely to blew up in your face.

Tesla’s Futuristic Approach To Manufacturing, & Critical “Next-Generation Vehicle”
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/03/02...ation-vehicle/

Note their first next generation assembly plant will be in MEXICO.



Old Aug 26, 2023 | 04:44 PM
  #132  
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In any business the best way to improve the bottom line is to cut labor costs.

You see it happening more and more. Self check out at the market, Kiosk at the Fast Food joints, Robotics and AI. No calling out sick, no health care, no retirement nada.

Union greed will cost the people that vote strike the most in the long run.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 05:13 PM
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A UAW strike will give more market share to the foreign owned companies. They should ask for reasonable increases.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 07:48 PM
  #134  
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Does Tesla ever have strikes?
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 5632
Does Tesla ever have strikes?
None of Tesla’s 100,000+ employees belong to a union. No.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 92rsz
Why is asking for a 40% pay increase ridiculous when every CEO got a 40% increase? They all make over 20 million.
Link please? Or let me know if we can just make stuff up.

Originally Posted by 92rsz
A worker that didn't get a raise for 10 years and watched their buying power greatly diminish is the one that's ridiculous?
Link please? Or let me know if we can just make stuff up.

Originally Posted by 92rsz
Not sure about cars, but they've got $30k in a truck they're charging $50k for. That's ridiculous!
Link please? Or let me know if we can just make stuff up.

OK. You've convincingly established that you have a strong opinion on costs, profits, wages, leadership, and compensation... but very little information, knowledge or experience of those areas. But you're MAD and that's your truth I guess. That's OK.

It's supply and demand. You don't have to like it.

One in ten thousand, or one in one hundred thousand people are qualified to run GM at a high level.

I've been the CEO of a company valued in the hundreds of millions, performing at a high-level. I am NOT qualified to run GM, not by a long-shot. It would be like a high-school coach who almost made it to state going up against Belichick in the Super Bowl.

Nine out of ten people alive are qualified to snap interior panels in place on a C8, and they line up to apply at the current wages.

Take a factory tour. Every single job is SIMPLE, with almost no time stress. I didn't see one operation that could not be learned in less than a day and performed at 60% attention.

Compare that to getting top performance from a multi-national corporation... it will take more than a day to learn that.

The difference between having Tim Cook as CEO and the average business person might be a 100 fold difference in results. The difference between the best assembly line worker ever born and a new guy on his first day MIGHT be 5%-10% difference in productivity. The task is engineered to not require skill.

Put it another way. The people who can throw a ball good, or sing a high note, make more than the GM CEO because they are unique. The public doesn't mind, because they understand making a mid-court shot or having a three octave range is difficult from lived experience.

But thanks to Dunning-Kruger, people who can't balance their checkbook think the job of a high-performing CEO is so easy, anyone can do it.

The shareholders vote with their wallets and pay out of their own pockets, as they are well-informed, and know otherwise. The shareholders GLADLY pay for a better CEO, but are not dumb enough to pay a line worker $100,000 per year when a perfectly qualified person is BEGGING at the gates to do it for $90,000 per year.

Last edited by sshallen; Aug 26, 2023 at 08:26 PM.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 08:06 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by 92rsz
Contractors usually build a 20% profit into their bid packages and that seems to be a universally agreed upon fair margin. They do pretty well at that rate. Trucks are on the order of 60% profit and that's obscene if you ask me. I don't think the government should get involved that defeats the purpose of capitalism. The only way it stops is when people speak with their wallets and they have no choice but to reduce prices to move product. People want what they can't have so now you have crazy prices and markups
GM's EBITDA is roughly 15%. They are a profoundly underperforming company.

Perhaps you are confused about gross profit, net profit, EBITDA, etc.

I assure you their CEO does not misunderstand.

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Old Aug 26, 2023 | 08:17 PM
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If C8 is in transit on the Semi truck from BG to West coast dealer when the strike starts 09/14/2023, do you think they finish the delivery? Or they just park the semi on the side of the road and let it sit until strike is over?
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sshallen
Link please? Or let me know if we can just make stuff up.

It's supply and demand. You don't have to like it.

One in ten thousand or one in one hundred thousand people are qualified to run GM at a high level. Nine out of ten people alive are qualified to snap interior panels in place on a C8, and they line up to apply at the current wages.

Take a factory tour. Every single job is SIMPLE, with almost no time stress. I didn't see one operation that could not be learned in less than a day. Compare that to getting top performance from a multi-national corporation... it will take more than a day to learn that.

The difference between having Tim Cook as CEO and the average business person might be a 100 fold difference in results. The difference between the best assembly line worker ever born and a new guy on his first day MIGHT be 5% difference in productivity. It's engineered to not require skill.

Put it another way. The people who can throw a ball good, or sing a high note, make more than the GM CEO because they are unique. The public doesn't mind, because they understand making a mid-court shot or having a three octave range is difficult from lived experience.

But thanks to Dunning-Kruger, people who can't balance their checkbook think the job of a high-performing CEO is so easy, anyone can do it.

The shareholders vote with their wallets and pay out of their own pockets, as they are well-informed, and know otherwise. The shareholders GLADLY pay for a better CEO, but are not dumb enough to pay a line worker $100,000 per year when a perfectly qualified person is BEGGING at the gates to do it for $90,000 per year.
Very well said.
Old Aug 26, 2023 | 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dapopa9
If C8 is in transit on the Semi truck from BG to West coast dealer when the strike starts 09/14/2023, do you think they finish the delivery? Or they just park the semi on the side of the road and let it sit until strike is over?
It appears Jack Cooper drivers are in the Teamsters union. They'll have to decide whether to park the trucks or accept the unspoken risks.



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