C8 Tuning kit claimed
Pro
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 649
Likes: 576
From: South Florida
$3,500? Im not questioning the cost of the product itself, but $3,500 to tune a car is steep. Unless this is a piggyback - which isn’t really the solution we’re looking for.
For comparison, it has cost me $400-$700 to costume tune my ECU on a few of my prior vehicles by a professional tuner, on a dyno.
For comparison, it has cost me $400-$700 to costume tune my ECU on a few of my prior vehicles by a professional tuner, on a dyno.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,402
From: Bethesda MD
Not true tuning as most of us think about it. They haven't cracked the ECU.
For example it's altering the MAF signal to effect fueling. Real tuning uses the actual MAF signal and adjusts the the gm/s (airflow) for a given Hz (MAF signal) inside the ECU. Before tuning software was available for the LS1, many of us used a similar, less sophisticated, box called a MAF Translator to make similar adjustments.
For example it's altering the MAF signal to effect fueling. Real tuning uses the actual MAF signal and adjusts the the gm/s (airflow) for a given Hz (MAF signal) inside the ECU. Before tuning software was available for the LS1, many of us used a similar, less sophisticated, box called a MAF Translator to make similar adjustments.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,402
From: Bethesda MD
$3,500? Im not questioning the cost of the product itself, but $3,500 to tune a car is steep. Unless this is a piggyback - which isn’t really the solution we’re looking for.
For comparison, it has cost me $400-$700 to costume tune my ECU on a few of my prior vehicles by a professional tuner, on a dyno.
For comparison, it has cost me $400-$700 to costume tune my ECU on a few of my prior vehicles by a professional tuner, on a dyno.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,142
From: Kansas City, MO
It's a 21st century version of this.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/fue...n-eclipse.html
$3500 + 'tuning' is ******* insane.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/fue...n-eclipse.html
$3500 + 'tuning' is ******* insane.
Last edited by Jeff V.; Aug 23, 2021 at 02:36 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,089
Likes: 668
From: Orange County, CA
It's a 21st century version of this.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/fue...n-eclipse.html
$3500 + 'tuning' is ******* insane.
http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/fue...n-eclipse.html
$3500 + 'tuning' is ******* insane.
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Pro
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 657
Likes: 192
From: Memphis Tennessee
People are spending thousands of dollars on simple cosmetic mods such as aero kits, wheels, exhausts, etc all which do basically nothing HP wise for the car.
Last edited by DomLS3; Aug 26, 2021 at 02:42 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,402
From: Bethesda MD
I see this tuning solution as helpful for fixing things like VE imbalances created by bolt-on modifications. I don't see buying this for trying to tune a stock car for more power or all-around improved drivability.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 657
Likes: 192
From: Memphis Tennessee
c8's have a wideband from the factory and auto correct themselves as is. This is why you can put headers on the car and not need a tune. You can throw headers, cats, exhaust, ported intake/throttle body all on this car at once and not *need* a tune, although a tune would still be more beneficial in the long run.
Last edited by DomLS3; Aug 26, 2021 at 04:22 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,142
From: Kansas City, MO
If you think about it.... that's not really that bad *if it works*. I'm fairly positive the c8's stock ecu will not be able to be tuned any time in the near future, if at all. For $3,500 + tuning, this gets you an entire system that is completely removable if you need to take it in for warranty work which can save you way more in the long run if you have a major engine/trans/diff failure. For comparison.... the C7 ZR1's ECU hasn't even been fully cracked yet. You can't tune them unless you remove your ECU and send it in to be "physically modified" to be unlocked, and from that point on GM can tell you've modified it at any time when they scan it and bye bye warranty. Some may make the argument that if you've started the tuning process anyway you've probably already done other mods that would also void the warranty like headers, but again, those are removable within a few hours.
People are spending thousands of dollars on simple cosmetic mods such as aero kits, wheels, exhausts, etc all which do basically nothing HP wise for the car.
People are spending thousands of dollars on simple cosmetic mods such as aero kits, wheels, exhausts, etc all which do basically nothing HP wise for the car.
I know exactly what it is, which is why I stand by what I said. It's an updated MAF translator. Back in the early 2000s I was using piggy-back boxes that had more features than this thing does to work on imports that had non-programmable ECUs. I think the most expensive one at the time was ~$600. Even $1000 would be hard to swallow. $3500 is absolutely outrageous.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 657
Likes: 192
From: Memphis Tennessee
I know exactly what it is, which is why I stand by what I said. It's an updated MAF translator. Back in the early 2000s I was using piggy-back boxes that had more features than this thing does to work on imports that had non-programmable ECUs. I think the most expensive one at the time was ~$600. Even $1000 would be hard to swallow. $3500 is absolutely outrageous.
It's 2021 not the early 2000s. Nobody cares about what you paid 20 years ago to tune a shitbox. Technology has advanced and so have prices on literally everything else especially in the aftermarket car world. For something as complex as a tuning solution for this car, I don't think the cost is that bad. Now if we're talking about exhausts and cats that cost $3,000 each that's a different story. Sport cats should not cost $3,000.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,142
From: Kansas City, MO
A friend of mine was running this on his 2019 Q50. Go ahead and tell me how the Peitz unit is worth almost seven times the price of this.
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-q60-jb4-tuner
The one for the new BMW M3/M4 is only $800. But who would want to drive that shitbox, right?
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-g8x-bmw-m3-m4
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-q60-jb4-tuner
The one for the new BMW M3/M4 is only $800. But who would want to drive that shitbox, right?
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-g8x-bmw-m3-m4
Last edited by Jeff V.; Aug 27, 2021 at 10:03 AM.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 657
Likes: 192
From: Memphis Tennessee
A friend of mine was running this on his 2019 Q50. Go ahead and tell me how the Peitz unit is worth almost seven times the price of this.
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-q60-jb4-tuner
The one for the new BMW M3/M4 is only $800. But who would want to drive that shitbox, right?
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-g8x-bmw-m3-m4
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-q60-jb4-tuner
The one for the new BMW M3/M4 is only $800. But who would want to drive that shitbox, right?
https://burgertuning.com/collections...-g8x-bmw-m3-m4
Same reason a MoTeC for a Viper costs $8,500+. Same reason a *tune only (without piggy back modules)* for a Mclaren costs $3,500 and a c7 z06 is $700. Same reason an OtterBox is 5x as expensive as an amazon special Chinese phone case.
Simply put... different platforms require different R&D and time in the products. Some products are better in quality and capability.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,979
Likes: 4,142
From: Kansas City, MO
We're not talking about some advanced operating theory here. It's a MAF sensor signal. This is not new technology. At all. Comparing a signal interceptor to a motorsport grade standalone ECU is ridiculous.
It's funny that you brought up McLaren. A fully featured ECU reflash for a niche platform a fraction of the size of the C8 market is cheaper than this hopped up MAF translator. You're kind of making my point for me.
It's funny that you brought up McLaren. A fully featured ECU reflash for a niche platform a fraction of the size of the C8 market is cheaper than this hopped up MAF translator. You're kind of making my point for me.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 657
Likes: 192
From: Memphis Tennessee
We're not talking about some advanced operating theory here. It's a MAF sensor signal. This is not new technology. At all. Comparing a signal interceptor to a motorsport grade standalone ECU is ridiculous.
It's funny that you brought up McLaren. A fully featured ECU reflash for a niche platform a fraction of the size of the C8 market is cheaper than this hopped up MAF translator. You're kind of making my point for me.
It's funny that you brought up McLaren. A fully featured ECU reflash for a niche platform a fraction of the size of the C8 market is cheaper than this hopped up MAF translator. You're kind of making my point for me.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,402
From: Bethesda MD
c8's have a wideband from the factory and auto correct themselves as is. This is why you can put headers on the car and not need a tune. You can throw headers, cats, exhaust, ported intake/throttle body all on this car at once and not *need* a tune, although a tune would still be more beneficial in the long run.
The system (if like previous ECMs) will correct the A/F ratio, using the TRIMs. However, that will not give the same result as correcting the MAF signal to reflect the proper gms/s coming into the engine. Spark, VE, and load calculations use that data. I've tuned LS cars and part throttle drivability is improved when the LTRIMs are within +/- 3% compared to higher levels (e.g., +10%) as often occurs when the car is modded. Like you said, a tune would still be more beneficial in the long run. If they updated the MAF translator for the C8 and sold it for a few hundred bucks, I would add one if I were doing a bunch of bolt-ons given the lack of proper tuning software.
Last edited by Ragtop 99; Aug 27, 2021 at 01:43 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 10,230
Likes: 885
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA VA
many of us from the buick turbo days remember the maf translator product that allowed a ls1 maf on the old turbo v6
worked very well and allowed some rudimentary adjustments.
it wasn't expensive. For this amount of fold, I'd expect more
worked very well and allowed some rudimentary adjustments.
it wasn't expensive. For this amount of fold, I'd expect more