Steering Feel
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
Instead of calling me troll, why not challenge me in my statements? Why not be factual?
Because in the past you have shown your lack the understanding of the physics of handling dynamics and automotive physics in general, to have an intelligent fact based conversation.
Fact: Throttle house, One take, Savage geese, Everyday car had 4 different C8 review videos. And every single one of them commented on A) Understeer and B) Steering feel.
Fact; every single US production car as delivered by manufacturers understeers for safety reasons. Bad drivers, and those who aren’t used to driving a particular car induce under steer, and then they can induce oversteer if the car has sufficient power. I have no reason to believe those people know anything. I have a C8, I think they are full of crap.
I dont have to drive the C8 to ask a question about how people who own and drove a C8 compare the steering feel and furthermore have a conversation on how Z06’s steering feel could be improved (or not).
The C8 has great steering feel. Especially compared to the 992 GT3 that I have never driven. Are you satisfied with my answer?
Stop calling everyone that disagrees with your ideology “troll”. These internet reviewers are the best content creators that millions watch. If one person says this, you could argue he was “clueless” but 4 different reviewers (in fact savage geese, everyday, and throttle house each have 2 reviewers so thats 7 people who drove the car) point this out, they may have a point no?
Matt’s track footage as well as throttle house’s backroad driving footage both have very heavy understeer of the car very visible. You cant just “dial this out” with -3 degrees of camber. Its built in to the differential tuning and steering calibration. Steering feels number/not enough feedback, its probably said 2-3 dozen times across those 4 videos. How is it a sin and you must be crucified for simply discussing what others repeatedly pointed out?
Back road driving with unknown road condition is useless. We’re the leaves or grass clipping, or dust? Differential tuning and steering calibration? You have demonstrated you lack the knowledge to have that discussion.
I understand there may be those owners who would love ANYTHING with a corvette badge. They just want to proudly get in their car, take their significant other with them, go for drives in sunny days and simply admire their cars in other days in their garage. These owners barely push their car to even 3/10ths and yes they are a large majority. But then there are people like me who are in the complete opposite category. There is nothing wrong with being in either group. One group isnt better than the other. One doesnt deserve a corvette better than the other. If I respect them, why cant they respect my group? You guys need to relax and understand your point of view isnt the de facto chosen point of view at all times.
Because in the past you have shown your lack the understanding of the physics of handling dynamics and automotive physics in general, to have an intelligent fact based conversation.
Fact: Throttle house, One take, Savage geese, Everyday car had 4 different C8 review videos. And every single one of them commented on A) Understeer and B) Steering feel.
Fact; every single US production car as delivered by manufacturers understeers for safety reasons. Bad drivers, and those who aren’t used to driving a particular car induce under steer, and then they can induce oversteer if the car has sufficient power. I have no reason to believe those people know anything. I have a C8, I think they are full of crap.
I dont have to drive the C8 to ask a question about how people who own and drove a C8 compare the steering feel and furthermore have a conversation on how Z06’s steering feel could be improved (or not).
The C8 has great steering feel. Especially compared to the 992 GT3 that I have never driven. Are you satisfied with my answer?
Stop calling everyone that disagrees with your ideology “troll”. These internet reviewers are the best content creators that millions watch. If one person says this, you could argue he was “clueless” but 4 different reviewers (in fact savage geese, everyday, and throttle house each have 2 reviewers so thats 7 people who drove the car) point this out, they may have a point no?
Matt’s track footage as well as throttle house’s backroad driving footage both have very heavy understeer of the car very visible. You cant just “dial this out” with -3 degrees of camber. Its built in to the differential tuning and steering calibration. Steering feels number/not enough feedback, its probably said 2-3 dozen times across those 4 videos. How is it a sin and you must be crucified for simply discussing what others repeatedly pointed out?
Back road driving with unknown road condition is useless. We’re the leaves or grass clipping, or dust? Differential tuning and steering calibration? You have demonstrated you lack the knowledge to have that discussion.
I understand there may be those owners who would love ANYTHING with a corvette badge. They just want to proudly get in their car, take their significant other with them, go for drives in sunny days and simply admire their cars in other days in their garage. These owners barely push their car to even 3/10ths and yes they are a large majority. But then there are people like me who are in the complete opposite category. There is nothing wrong with being in either group. One group isnt better than the other. One doesnt deserve a corvette better than the other. If I respect them, why cant they respect my group? You guys need to relax and understand your point of view isnt the de facto chosen point of view at all times.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 544
Likes: 534
From: Everywhere!
FWIW I have driven my C8 over 22,000 miles. I haven driven it on more than one track. I have driven C8s at Spring Mountain. I have driven other Corvettes on the track. I am also quite familiar with Porshes...
To say that a production street car "has some understeer" is like saying "the sky is blue" or "water is wet". It is a lazy filler sentence for the content, written or video. Next you are going to tell us that you get your news from The Onion...
If the understeer in the C8 that you have admittedly never driven really bothers you that much, you could use your imagination and put a set of "Cup" tires on the front and some "Snow tires" on the rear and watch the understeer become oversteer like an old 911 that you pine for.
Just curious, were you the guy at Lime Rock a number of years ago who was running 1:06s in his GT3 and came up to my friend and I with our C7 and was talking about wanting to run a 1:00 so bad, and I let you know that I just did a 1:00 and never shifted the car out of 4th gear for the entire lap, so I suggested you get a C7? (The cars best lap was a 0.58). It seems possible, you say you have a GT3 and also a C7...
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,934
Likes: 4,257
From: NC
Just to correct a fallacy in this thread…
Understeer has nothing to do with “steering calibration”. Understeer is a function of suspension geometry and calibration. Bushing deflection, roll bar stiffness front/rear, springing/damping front and rear, etc.
Understeer has nothing to do with “steering calibration”. Understeer is a function of suspension geometry and calibration. Bushing deflection, roll bar stiffness front/rear, springing/damping front and rear, etc.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,129
Likes: 3,771
From: Charlotte NC
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'25
I agree with you. Apparently constant, unrelenting trolling does not violate any rules on this forum. 🤣 A mod just contacted me to let me know these trolls can spew all the BS they want on here. I guess we are more concerned with traffic on this site rather than promoting and learning about a brand. There is a difference between healthy debate and hardcore trolling, and this guy is the ladder… yet he’s allowed to stick around with no consequences.
My recommendation is if you think the person is a Troll just cut off their oxygen and don't open any of their threads. Trolls need engagement from others so they can feel relevant in their world, without it they just slink away quietly on to their next message board so they can feel intellectually superior once again. It is pretty sad, but also a pretty predictable behavior. That said I know of a few people who have been banned from this forum section for misuse and/or hostile behaviors (we don't announce when someone is banned you just no longer see them), so to that point if you feel anyone violates any of the forum rules please report them.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,351
Again, not one of you have been able to stay on topic and have an objective and mature conversation. I am trying to have a civil conversation. Forget about what I think or may feel. Have any of you done what I suggested? Have you watched the throttle house review of C8? Or Savage geese? Are they also trolls and Porsche fanboys (one of the reviewers in savage geese actually owns a C7 GS and he is a corvette guy).
What about the everyday driver review? That channel is fan of corvettes. Are they also trolls?
I find it quite absurd that none of you are able to take a step back and listen the other person and actually watch/listen other people’s opinion (and here other people dont mean me, it means those 7 completely independent reviewers).
One of you say “I have 22,000 miles in my C8”, “I drove it in a race track”, and “I’m familiar with Porsche”. Lets just break this down a bit. The first two statement absolutely does not contradict the point these 7 reviewers make. You may have 200,000 miles more and the car may still have numb steering. You may have been tracking the C8 every weekend and still have numb steering. Familiar with Porsche how? Owned one? Tracked one? Driven one? Which one? A macan or a panamera? Or a 911 GT3? People who make these points (I am referring to the 7 reviewers) have far more seat time in other cars than you do and perhaps have a better sense of distinguishing good from bad? How can you decide something isn’t a problem if you havent experienced other cars and driven them back to back? If all you have owned is Corvettes and Camaros, does that mean your point of view will be same as the person who also owned Mclarens and Audis and 911s?
What about the everyday driver review? That channel is fan of corvettes. Are they also trolls?
I find it quite absurd that none of you are able to take a step back and listen the other person and actually watch/listen other people’s opinion (and here other people dont mean me, it means those 7 completely independent reviewers).
One of you say “I have 22,000 miles in my C8”, “I drove it in a race track”, and “I’m familiar with Porsche”. Lets just break this down a bit. The first two statement absolutely does not contradict the point these 7 reviewers make. You may have 200,000 miles more and the car may still have numb steering. You may have been tracking the C8 every weekend and still have numb steering. Familiar with Porsche how? Owned one? Tracked one? Driven one? Which one? A macan or a panamera? Or a 911 GT3? People who make these points (I am referring to the 7 reviewers) have far more seat time in other cars than you do and perhaps have a better sense of distinguishing good from bad? How can you decide something isn’t a problem if you havent experienced other cars and driven them back to back? If all you have owned is Corvettes and Camaros, does that mean your point of view will be same as the person who also owned Mclarens and Audis and 911s?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,351
I understand MODS have a tough job . I am confused though because you state "it is a constant challenge to decipher Trolls from the ignorant and uniformed." So by this statement, it seems the MODS do look for troll behavior. If that is the case, how is it that UnhandledException is still on this forum? Even Stevie Wonder could see this guy is a massive troll. This isn't a case of him being ignorant and uninformed, he is trolling and twisting the knife and trying to provoke corvette owners with his constant bullshit. At what point will you MODS consider him trolling? Ask any long standing member on this forum about UnhandledException and see what they tell you. It's beyond ridiculous that he is still allowed to hang around here.
Last edited by UnhandledException; Sep 25, 2022 at 11:59 AM.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 298
Likes: 299
Again, not one of you have been able to stay on topic and have an objective and mature conversation. I am trying to have a civil conversation. Forget about what I think or may feel. Have any of you done what I suggested? Have you watched the throttle house review of C8? Or Savage geese? Are they also trolls and Porsche fanboys (one of the reviewers in savage geese actually owns a C7 GS and he is a corvette guy).
What about the everyday driver review? That channel is fan of corvettes. Are they also trolls?
I find it quite absurd that none of you are able to take a step back and listen the other person and actually watch/listen other people’s opinion (and here other people dont mean me, it means those 7 completely independent reviewers).
One of you say “I have 22,000 miles in my C8”, “I drove it in a race track”, and “I’m familiar with Porsche”. Lets just break this down a bit. The first two statement absolutely does not contradict the point these 7 reviewers make. You may have 200,000 miles more and the car may still have numb steering. You may have been tracking the C8 every weekend and still have numb steering. Familiar with Porsche how? Owned one? Tracked one? Driven one? Which one? A macan or a panamera? Or a 911 GT3? People who make these points (I am referring to the 7 reviewers) have far more seat time in other cars than you do and perhaps have a better sense of distinguishing good from bad? How can you decide something isn’t a problem if you havent experienced other cars and driven them back to back? If all you have owned is Corvettes and Camaros, does that mean your point of view will be same as the person who also owned Mclarens and Audis and 911s?
What about the everyday driver review? That channel is fan of corvettes. Are they also trolls?
I find it quite absurd that none of you are able to take a step back and listen the other person and actually watch/listen other people’s opinion (and here other people dont mean me, it means those 7 completely independent reviewers).
One of you say “I have 22,000 miles in my C8”, “I drove it in a race track”, and “I’m familiar with Porsche”. Lets just break this down a bit. The first two statement absolutely does not contradict the point these 7 reviewers make. You may have 200,000 miles more and the car may still have numb steering. You may have been tracking the C8 every weekend and still have numb steering. Familiar with Porsche how? Owned one? Tracked one? Driven one? Which one? A macan or a panamera? Or a 911 GT3? People who make these points (I am referring to the 7 reviewers) have far more seat time in other cars than you do and perhaps have a better sense of distinguishing good from bad? How can you decide something isn’t a problem if you havent experienced other cars and driven them back to back? If all you have owned is Corvettes and Camaros, does that mean your point of view will be same as the person who also owned Mclarens and Audis and 911s?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 1,351
What a class(less) act.
All you do is show your immaturity and your lack of being able to have an adult conversation. And I am the troll here?
Mods aren’t stupid and they can see through people. They know who is whom and people’s true intent. Some of you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not able to respond in a constructive way and instead make these off color remarks, insult me and others.
All you do is show your immaturity and your lack of being able to have an adult conversation. And I am the troll here?
Mods aren’t stupid and they can see through people. They know who is whom and people’s true intent. Some of you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not able to respond in a constructive way and instead make these off color remarks, insult me and others.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,381
Likes: 2,605
From: Burning Jet-A
Gentlemen Please! Lets all be civil and welcome everyone's experiences and biases in an open space free from negative energy regardless of a poster's mental keyboard actuation state ..
To the original question, I think that the Z06 steering feel will be on a whole different level. Some test drivers feel that they will not want to wash their hands ever again after driving the Z06, a far cry from the recently soiled feel that comes from the GT3RS that just doesn't ever wash off no matter how many times you try. The lingering tingle after the Z06/Z07 variant seems to be something of a mix that can only be described by the chemical formula BELOW...
"Religious experience" is overused at places like the Vatican or Madame Wong's but now soon at your local track when you are there, thats how it will talked about. (note all chemical compounds above avail in quantity at Madam Wong's) The Porsche guys and the plastic drivers will not really be able to communicate with a Z06 owner in the future. Well the Z06 owners will try, but its not expected to work well because they will know words that Porsche people dont have the meanings for (It is science that the Z06 will increae working vocabulary by at least 1.103e+14 words per week. Perhaps if we keep a box of crayons and paper for them there will be hope. Well, some pate and cheese is another way, perhaps some quiche? Its so hard when they only wear tartan socks with their repro McQueen watch isn't it? Perhaps bring a Members Only jacket to break the ice.
Its a difficult thing to compare that scientifically with other cars, I realize that, but thats what we are in for. The cool thing is that when you have your OWN CAR, there really wont be much reason to stand and talk about it. Just drive the damn thing and try to smile sweetly....
The Z06 will be the greatest steering experience since the last time an F-14 pulled lead on an Eagle over Nellis....and then stapled the pipper on the canopy. And forever after.
Last edited by international blue; Sep 25, 2022 at 12:10 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,361
Likes: 4,800
From: West Burbs of Chicago IL
Instead of calling me troll, why not challenge me in my statements? Why not be factual?
Fact: Throttle house, One take, Savage geese, Everyday car had 4 different C8 review videos. And every single one of them commented on A) Understeer and B) Steering feel.
I dont have to drive the C8 to ask a question about how people who own and drove a C8 compare the steering feel and furthermore have a conversation on how Z06’s steering feel could be improved (or not).
Stop calling everyone that disagrees with your ideology “troll”. These internet reviewers are the best content creators that millions watch. If one person says this, you could argue he was “clueless” but 4 different reviewers (in fact savage geese, everyday, and throttle house each have 2 reviewers so thats 7 people who drove the car) point this out, they may have a point no?
Fact: Throttle house, One take, Savage geese, Everyday car had 4 different C8 review videos. And every single one of them commented on A) Understeer and B) Steering feel.
I dont have to drive the C8 to ask a question about how people who own and drove a C8 compare the steering feel and furthermore have a conversation on how Z06’s steering feel could be improved (or not).
Stop calling everyone that disagrees with your ideology “troll”. These internet reviewers are the best content creators that millions watch. If one person says this, you could argue he was “clueless” but 4 different reviewers (in fact savage geese, everyday, and throttle house each have 2 reviewers so thats 7 people who drove the car) point this out, they may have a point no?
Racer
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 298
Likes: 299
What a class(less) act.
All you do is show your immaturity and your lack of being able to have an adult conversation. And I am the troll here?
Mods aren’t stupid and they can see through people. They know who is whom and people’s true intent. Some of you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not able to respond in a constructive way and instead make these off color remarks, insult me and others.
All you do is show your immaturity and your lack of being able to have an adult conversation. And I am the troll here?
Mods aren’t stupid and they can see through people. They know who is whom and people’s true intent. Some of you have demonstrated time and time again that you are not able to respond in a constructive way and instead make these off color remarks, insult me and others.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,559
Likes: 4,501
From: North Dallas 40 TX
I answered you factually, by your major points. No response. Maybe you have me on ignore. I am OK with that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,109
Likes: 2,032
Yep either some cheesy Porsche salesman or a 15 year old. I'm thinking it's the former because no one would spend so much time and effort in putting down one brand while trying to elevate another brand unless they're getting paid for it or maybe they're just a loser troll that needs to pick up another hobby. His/her act is getting tired.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 13,934
Likes: 4,257
From: NC
actually, you are not. It is the way you phrase you questions, and how you respond. You make accusations, and ask us to respond. That is not how a simply curious person asks questions.
I answered you factually, by your major points. No response. Maybe you have me on ignore. I am OK with that.
I answered you factually, by your major points. No response. Maybe you have me on ignore. I am OK with that.
His passive/aggressive “questions” are similar to:
”When did you stop beating your wife?”
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 17,129
Likes: 3,771
From: Charlotte NC
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08-'25
I understand MODS have a tough job . I am confused though because you state "it is a constant challenge to decipher Trolls from the ignorant and uniformed." So by this statement, it seems the MODS do look for troll behavior. If that is the case, how is it that UnhandledException is still on this forum? Even Stevie Wonder could see this guy is a massive troll. This isn't a case of him being ignorant and uninformed, he is trolling and twisting the knife and trying to provoke corvette owners with his constant bullshit. At what point will you MODS consider him trolling? Ask any long standing member on this forum about UnhandledException and see what they tell you. It's beyond ridiculous that he is still allowed to hang around here.