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My speculation is it’s more about emissions than cost of re-gearing, the Z06 as much as I want it to be as hardcore as the GT3 is still somewhat compromised in that it needs to be a grand touring car and if they had made 5th, 6th, and 7th tighter to maximize acceleration it would have made for a bigger rpm drop in/out of 8th. They need the 5.5L to make the torque to offset the weight, but more cubes comes at the cost of more emissions. They can’t do V4 to cut down on the size of the engine as in the past because it’s a soulful FPC that revs high and needs to for the torque multiplication from gearing, so when cruising it needs to be at a lower rpm to produce less emissions as they plan to sell a lot more of them than the 4.0L GT3 that already produces less being it’s a smaller engine and emissions produced cost car manufacturers money in the world we live in. The C8 wouldn’t have AFM if this wasn’t the case, Porsche’s higher volume base model 911 is a smaller turbocharged engine because it produces less emissions when not in boost where it makes less power. All new engines with DI are pretty optimized for AFR, so think of power, fuel and emissions all correlating. I accept that the C8Z06 is what it is based on the constraints it has to work within. I’m glad they still allow it to stretch its legs well into the triple digits as afraid eventually we won’t be able to even discuss that slight downfall when in the name of climate change it’s not necessary to do so.
How could 5th gear be about emissions? It's not used to achieve either city or highway EPA mpg ratings as far as I can tell. For the city EPA rating I suspect it's mainly 1st through 4th gears (based on speeds) but even it needed to go above 4th gear, the transmission could skip over 5th and go to 6th for fuel economy. And for highway driving the transmission can just select 8th gear.
Well, depending on the price of the C8Z, you have the new 992 911 Turbo S w/ the lightweight package. It's slated to run 9.9 @ 139 so, pretty darn close to that metric and it costs about $215k.
Little more context, it's the lowest horsepower production car to reach the 9's. It does 0-30 in 0.8 and 0-60 in 2.1. So, pretty quick, all things withstanding.
*on an unprepped surface
Originally Posted by ArmchairArchitect
How could 5th gear be about emissions? It's not used to achieve either city or highway EPA mpg ratings as far as I can tell. For the city EPA rating I suspect it's mainly 1st through 4th gears (based on speeds) but even it needed to go above 4th gear, the transmission could skip over 5th and go to 6th for fuel economy. And for highway driving the transmission can just select 8th gear.
If you shorten 5th, then what about 6th? I assure you 4th isn’t used for around town cruising in EPA test as at 40mph it’s taching 2400, not sure what your definition of city is though please share the EPA’s if you know it. Play with this calculator and share a screenshot of your optimum ratios, I’m curious what you come up with. Remember if you shorten the rpm drop in a gear, the following gear drop becomes greater. Chevrolet chose to keep the rpm drop relatively the same, why do you think that is? I assume it’s because they wanted a smooth shifting transmission, not one that feels like it’s skipping gears when it’s actually not. Porsche optimized theirs for acceleration in that the mph in each gear is very close, but that keeps the ending RPM’s higher. Does the C8Z06 have that ability and still able to meet emissions goals for Europe is the question I’d like to know the answer to, I hope all those complaining aren’t also voting for more strict EPA requirements because of the climate that’s constantly changing. http://gearcal.com/
How could 5th gear be about emissions? It's not used to achieve either city or highway EPA mpg ratings as far as I can tell. For the city EPA rating I suspect it's mainly 1st through 4th gears (based on speeds) but even it needed to go above 4th gear, the transmission could skip over 5th and go to 6th for fuel economy. And for highway driving the transmission can just select 8th gear.
Originally Posted by PRE-Z06
*on an unprepped surface
If you shorten 5th, then what about 6th? I assure you 4th isn’t used for around town cruising in EPA test as at 40mph it’s taching 2400, not sure what your definition of city is though please share the EPA’s if you know it. Play with this calculator and share a screenshot of your optimum ratios, I’m curious what you come up with. Remember if you shorten the rpm drop in a gear, the following gear drop becomes greater. Chevrolet chose to keep the rpm drop relatively the same, why do you think that is? I assume it’s because they wanted a smooth shifting transmission, not one that feels like it’s skipping gears when it’s actually not. Porsche optimized theirs for acceleration in that the mph in each gear is very close, but that keeps the ending RPM’s higher. Does the C8Z06 have that ability and still able to meet emissions goals for Europe is the question I’d like to know the answer to, I hope all those complaining aren’t also voting for more strict EPA requirements because of the climate that’s constantly changing. http://gearcal.com/
They can shorten 6th gear too, or leave it as-is. And just have 8th and/or 7th as the overdrive highway gears- who cares if there is a big RPM drop, and a potentially single not as smooth shift? It's supposed to be a track-oriented model after all, not for a fragile buyer that gets all perturbed by a single slightly jerky shift in one of the final overdrive gears.
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 06-09-2022 at 03:51 PM.
How could 5th gear be about emissions? It's not used to achieve either city or highway EPA mpg ratings as far as I can tell. For the city EPA rating I suspect it's mainly 1st through 4th gears (based on speeds) but even it needed to go above 4th gear, the transmission could skip over 5th and go to 6th for fuel economy. And for highway driving the transmission can just select 8th gear.
Gears 5-7 are important for the city epa rating; it's primarily up to ~60mph but with a lot of speed transitions, and the additional gears just provide the engine with more opportunity to operate within its range of best efficiency, .. rpm and throttle position versus speed. I find that in my own car, I spend a good amount of time in 5-7 (and some 8) after only a few seconds after leaving each red light, when driving to work, which for me is an urban around-town area. Transmission designers generally don't like large gear gaps or squeezed ratios since the emphasis is usually on smoothness and optimizing engine rpms for mileage and power over a very wide speed range. That's not to say something different couldn't be done; it's a matter of the tradeoffs.
MPH in the 1/4 trumps lap times, considering these cars spend 99.9999% of their time on the street, and a 3,7000lb+ GT is no race car.
131mph is WEAK when the competition is around 140mph, can be easily modified for big power, and has street ruling TORQUE.
Canyon Carving? You have a C5 and you live in Center City Philly. That's cute.
I'm not the Doge demographic that infests West Philly that you implied, I bought my M6 C5 new in 1997 and have more time at NJMP, Pocono, and Pitt than you do.
This is just a hilarious supposition. You're a troll buddy. If you hate the car fine, go buy one of the competition. Nobody here is holding you back from buying a Porsche or McLaren.
Also - I don't know why all the urban roll racers think that sports cars should be focused on city highways. A nicely balanced 670 hp NA Corvette is beyond perfect for my area: I'm 5 minutes from curvy wine country roads with 20-30 mph S-curves for miles on end. Screw your lame *** clogged up city highways.
This is just a hilarious supposition. You're a troll buddy. If you hate the car fine, go buy one of the competition. Nobody here is holding you back from buying a Porsche or McLaren.
Also - I don't know why all the urban roll racers think that sports cars should be focused on city highways. A nicely balanced 670 hp NA Corvette is beyond perfect for my area: I'm 5 minutes from curvy wine country roads with 20-30 mph S-curves for miles on end. Screw your lame *** clogged up city highways.
Unfortunately there are several Trolls that have infested the forum since the new Z06 was announced. Read through some of the threads on here and you will find the same Trolls post the same garbage over and over again. They have nothing better to do then type nonsense from their parents basement. Regardless of what is announced a Trolls job is to seek attention, period. They add nothing to the discussion because....well they never have anything of substance to discuss! They are NOT going to be buying this car because they likely don't have the money, but in the end they will never admit that and come up with a lame excuse like its because the car is not good enough so they are going to buy a Lambo or Ferrari etc... (but of course they will not buy one of those either) Trolls just being Trolls.
This is just a hilarious supposition. You're a troll buddy. If you hate the car fine, go buy one of the competition. Nobody here is holding you back from buying a Porsche or McLaren.
Also - I don't know why all the urban roll racers think that sports cars should be focused on city highways. A nicely balanced 670 hp NA Corvette is beyond perfect for my area: I'm 5 minutes from curvy wine country roads with 20-30 mph S-curves for miles on end. Screw your lame *** clogged up city highways.
Nah. I'm going to keep loudly calling for a proper replacement for my C7 ZO6.
A C8 model with twin turbos, at a C7 Z06 price point.
Even if to save money GM offers it as LT6 version with cross plane crank and lower redline.
I'd even take a LT5/LT4 powered C8 with twin turbos.
Because I'm not paying ZR1 money for a C7 ZO6 replacement.
And, I'm not paying ZO6 money for LESS torque than a LT2, to get only an extra 170hp in a 3,700+ lb car.
Not to mention that horsepower is super peaky, yet the C8 ZO6 retains the gearing from the base car.
So, McLarens, Ferraris, and 911 Turbos are all for "roll racers" and aren't track capable?
Fan bois keep drinking the kool aid around here.
News Flash: Being honest and realistic about Corvette's victories and failures does NOT make a new Corvette buyer since 1997, who has an initial ZO6 allocation, a "troll".
America today has a real problem with tyrants personally attacking people they don't agree with,
and trying to silence any speech they don't agree with. Elon Musk should buy up some car forums when he's done with Twitter, and the Fed needs to break up all these tech monopolies run by tyrants.
Go buy something else and annoy their forum since all you do is complain about things you can't change.
The Corvette crowd said the same thing to everyone who was demanding a DCT transmission in the C7.
Then, Tadge admits they had to use a DCT in the C8 because of all the Corvette owners who were loudly demanding a DCT.
Nah. I'm going to keep loudly calling for a proper replacement for my C7 ZO6.
A C8 model with twin turbos, at a C7 Z06 price point.
Even if to save money GM offers it as LT6 version with cross plane crank and lower redline.
I'd even take a LT5/LT4 powered C8 with twin turbos.
Because I'm not paying ZR1 money for a C7 ZO6 replacement.
And, I'm not paying ZO6 money for LESS torque than a LT2, to get only an extra 170hp in a 3,700+ lb car.
Not to mention that horsepower is super peaky, yet the C8 ZO6 retains the gearing from the base car.
So, McLarens, Ferraris, and 911 Turbos are all for "roll racers" and aren't track capable?
Fan bois keep drinking the kool aid around here.
News Flash: Being honest and realistic about Corvette's victories and failures does NOT make a new Corvette buyer since 1997, who has an initial ZO6 allocation, a "troll".
America today has a real problem with tyrants personally attacking people they don't agree with,
and trying to silence any speech they don't agree with. Elon Musk should buy up some car forums when he's done with Twitter, and the Fed needs to break up all these tech monopolies run by tyrants.
the LT6 power delivery is simply not “super peaky”. It will be faster than your stock C7 Z06 in almost every imaginable scenario. This motor is what the engineers wanted to do before having to cut corners on the C7 and strapping a supercharger to a truck motor.
I had to write it down and picture what I was dealing with.
In a track situation you're probably between 6,000 - 8,600 rpm, especially with a high revving FPC motor. It doesn't seem far off what I would expect.
1st to 2nd - you run to 44mph, shift to 2nd and it falls to 5,200rpm on the way to redline at 73mph
2nd to 3rd - you shift into 3rd at 73mph and it falls to 6,000 rpm on the way to redline 105mph
3rd to 4th - you shift into 4th at 105mph and it falls to 6,200 rpm on the way to redline at 146mph
4th to 5th - you shift into 5th at 146mph and it falls to 6,400 rpm on the way to redline at 196mph
Nah. I'm going to keep loudly calling for a proper replacement for my C7 ZO6.
Good luck, I guess. I can't figure out if you actually think posting about it on the internet non-stop is the way to get GM to build the car that you seem to be the only person demanding or if you are just trying to vent off some anger... but knock yourself out if that's what you want to do lol
Unfortunately there are several Trolls that have infested the forum since the new Z06 was announced. Read through some of the threads on here and you will find the same Trolls post the same garbage over and over again. They have nothing better to do then type nonsense from their parents basement. Regardless of what is announced a Trolls job is to seek attention, period. They add nothing to the discussion because....well they never have anything of substance to discuss! They are NOT going to be buying this car because they likely don't have the money, but in the end they will never admit that and come up with a lame excuse like its because the car is not good enough so they are going to buy a Lambo or Ferrari etc... (but of course they will not buy one of those either) Trolls just being Trolls.
It reminds me of the run up to the C8 release. People were popping in to start a thread that was a borderline press release about how they weren't going to buy the C8 for whatever their reason was. They were going to stick with their '84 Corvette CFI car with 328,000 miles on it instead. As if any of us thought they were going to be going from that car to a $60k+ new C8 anyway lol Hell as if any of us cared if they were buying one or not to begin with lol
Cut your 60-130mph in HALF with Cicio Performance’s C900 Package Below are some screen shots and a video of a recent stock engine C900 we delivered to a client in New York. This car ran countless consistent 5.6-5.8 times during testing. That's a far cry from the factory 60-130 times in the 10s!
In stock form, the C8 is painfully slow 60-130. Please understand we are not hating on the C8 at all, We absolutely love the C8 but we can’t handle our exotic Corvette being slower than things like… well… lets just say almost every AMG Mercedes made, CTSVs, basically all the BMW M cars… heck even our stock Alfa Romeo runs a faster time than a stock C8. Much less things like stock GT-Rs, stock 911s... you get the idea.
We understand that for some the continual pulling of a car over 100mph isn’t important and we completely respect that….however, for us that's where the adrenalin starts. All that said, we are very proud of the recent metrics we have been achieving with our C900 C8s. With the addition of our transmission pressure module by Dodson as well as some of our recent package updates, these cars have really been able to step up the performance. Just to note these runs were done on a Sportsman clutch, good air and in pretty full send mode for a client that is gonna race the car heavily. Consistent times can be expected in the sub 6 second range.
Watch that video, and note the 60-130mph in FIVE seconds.
The C8 ZO6 is going to get SMOKED on a regular basis by cars running forced induction.
Plus, anyone who actually runs their cars, knows practically no one who runs their performance car leaves it 100% stock.
Read my signature.
Corvette needs to offer naturally aspirated and a twin turbo models at the same price point, the way Porsche does with the 911 GT3 and 911 Turbo.
911 Turbo S running a FIVE second 60-130 for additional reference:
Watch that video, and note the 60-130mph in FIVE seconds.
The C8 ZO6 is going to get SMOKED on a regular basis by cars running forced induction.
Plus, anyone who actually runs their cars, knows practically no one who runs their performance car leaves it 100% stock.
Read my signature.
Corvette needs to offer naturally aspirated and a twin turbo models at the same price point, the way Porsche does with the 911 GT3 and 911 Turbo.
I would bet that car will smoke the future TT ZR1 too.
They can shorten 6th gear too, or leave it as-is. And just have 8th and/or 7th as the overdrive highway gears- who cares if there is a big RPM drop, and a potentially single not as smooth shift? It's supposed to be a track-oriented model after all, not for a fragile buyer that gets all perturbed by a single slightly jerky shift in one of the final overdrive gears.
I hear ya, but it’s not just the hardcore designing the car. It’s harder on parts when there’s a big rpm drop, they’re always compromising longevity and performance while trying to please everyone. I think they did a pretty good job personally, so I tip my hat though not saying it’s perfect by any means.
Originally Posted by RedLS6
Gears 5-7 are important for the city epa rating; it's primarily up to ~60mph but with a lot of speed transitions, and the additional gears just provide the engine with more opportunity to operate within its range of best efficiency, .. rpm and throttle position versus speed. I find that in my own car, I spend a good amount of time in 5-7 (and some 8) after only a few seconds after leaving each red light, when driving to work, which for me is an urban around-town area. Transmission designers generally don't like large gear gaps or squeezed ratios since the emphasis is usually on smoothness and optimizing engine rpms for mileage and power over a very wide speed range. That's not to say something different couldn't be done; it's a matter of the tradeoffs.
Always trade offs, I definitely wouldn’t rather have a CVT lol
Originally Posted by 555ctsv
Bold assumption here, but I'd predict most here are not voting for stricter epa requirements.
Side note; 2023eray and OregonSharkMan need to jump into the COD Gulag and sort their discussions out there
I’m not assuming, but hope people realize what’s driving the decisions manufacturers make when building cars it isn’t just what the consumer wants.
Watch that video, and note the 60-130mph in FIVE seconds.
The C8 ZO6 is going to get SMOKED on a regular basis by cars running forced induction.
Plus, anyone who actually runs their cars, knows practically no one who runs their performance car leaves it 100% stock.
Read my signature.
Corvette needs to offer naturally aspirated and a twin turbo models at the same price point, the way Porsche does with the 911 GT3 and 911 Turbo.
911 Turbo S running a FIVE second 60-130 for additional reference:
06-09-2022, 01:55 PM
They have nothing better to do then type nonsense from their parents basement. Regardless of what is announced a Trolls job is to seek attention, period. They add nothing to the discussion because....well they never have anything of substance to discuss! They are NOT going to be buying this car because they likely don't have the money, but in the end they will never admit that and come up with a lame excuse like its because the car is not good enough so they are going to buy a Lambo or Ferrari etc... (but of course they will not buy one of those either) 
Trolls just being Trolls.
