Help Please! Major problem using PC
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Williamstown NJ
ok, chaged my plans, and decided ot take the easiest approach I can. Since the Zaino site mentions this haze on dark colored cars as a result of using ZPC fusion (Thanks Mark8855), I figured it would only take a minute to try the Z5 on a spot as they suggested. Mixed a little bit with ZFX, and then applied about a 1x1 area. I waited about 15 minutes (I was impatient since this was a test), and as I wiped it off, the haze was completely gone. Now is it covering something up, I do not know. I am trying to think of a way to remove the Z5 now on that spot to see if the haze comes back. I honestly do not think so as I have wiped the car down in that spot several times with water, alcohol/water etc. to see if the haze came off, and it did not. No clue what the Z5 is doing, but I must say it is an easy fix, and seems to of have removed the problem rather than covered it up at this point. Anyone want me to try anthing to remove the Z5 on that spot to see if we can get the haze back? That would indicate it is simply covered up, and not fixed if we can. Thanks again everyone!
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,069
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From: Central Ma
ok, chaged my plans, and decided ot take the easiest approach I can. Since the Zaino site mentions this haze on dark colored cars as a result of using ZPC fusion (Thanks Mark8855), I figured it would only take a minute to try the Z5 on a spot as they suggested. Mixed a little bit with ZFX, and then applied about a 1x1 area. I waited about 15 minutes (I was impatient since this was a test), and as I wiped it off, the haze was completely gone. Now is it covering something up, I do not know. I am trying to think of a way to remove the Z5 now on that spot to see if the haze comes back. I honestly do not think so as I have wiped the car down in that spot several times with water, alcohol/water etc. to see if the haze came off, and it did not. No clue what the Z5 is doing, but I must say it is an easy fix, and seems to of have removed the problem rather than covered it up at this point. Anyone want me to try anthing to remove the Z5 on that spot to see if we can get the haze back? That would indicate it is simply covered up, and not fixed if we can. Thanks again everyone!
The Z5 took care of the slight haze, a haze that Z says may be there with ZPC. You are now trying to bring the haze back???
I would say go back and complete your polishing on the rest of the car.
Another thing you could do is apply two or three coats of Z5P, and two Z2P to your hood and see what you think.
Or you could wash your car with any old rag, induce some swirl marks, and then maybe you will be happy?
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Williamstown NJ
Steve, why the sarcasm. I was simply staing that it would be nice to know if the Z5 actually fixed the problem or covered it up. When the Z5 starts to wear off, will the problem still be there? Would it look even better if the problem were fixed before the Z5? Just trying to help myself, and everyone that might run into this actually know what the problem is. Of course I do not want swirls or whatever or I would never of have done any of this. Just would be nice to know if Z5 fixed it or coverd it up, that's all. Thanks for the advice.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,308
Likes: 104
From: Orange County California
Yeah, Steve. You're probably just being funny (hopefully) instead of sarcastic, but it's tough to tell. I agree with desant89...it would be good to know if the haze comes back, so that one knows whether it's somehow part of the paint that's just being covered up, or a thin layer on top that is being "washed off" by the Z5/Z2.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 702
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From: Elkridge, Maryland
I too have had the same problem with ZPC. It is really only detectable under my halogen lights on my black truck paint. I am also using Menzerna IP w/Orange Pad with great results, but when I follow up with ZPC and White Pad I can see the hazing that others are experiencing. I will try not working the ZPC too long, since I was going with the principle of deminishing abrasives that you need to work the polish long enough for the abrasives to brake down...from what is being said here that is not the technique to use with ZPC. I will give it a try. As a side note...since ZPC was causing hazing I finished with Menzerna FP on a White Pad...and that is awesome even under the intense halogen lights...no hazing at all. I still would like to perfect the technique for ZPC as it is one of my favorite products as well...
Last edited by wkasak_07Z06; Sep 11, 2007 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Because
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Phoenix Arizona
I just don't trust the idea that you have to put Z2/Z5 on after the PC-Fusion to remove the haze. It shouldn't have a haze at all, IMO. The whole thing makes me nervous that the fusion is screwing something up, and then you have to layer another product on top to cover it up.
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 93
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From: Phoenix Arizona
ok, chaged my plans, and decided ot take the easiest approach I can. Since the Zaino site mentions this haze on dark colored cars as a result of using ZPC fusion (Thanks Mark8855), I figured it would only take a minute to try the Z5 on a spot as they suggested. Mixed a little bit with ZFX, and then applied about a 1x1 area. I waited about 15 minutes (I was impatient since this was a test), and as I wiped it off, the haze was completely gone. Now is it covering something up, I do not know. I am trying to think of a way to remove the Z5 now on that spot to see if the haze comes back. I honestly do not think so as I have wiped the car down in that spot several times with water, alcohol/water etc. to see if the haze came off, and it did not. No clue what the Z5 is doing, but I must say it is an easy fix, and seems to of have removed the problem rather than covered it up at this point. Anyone want me to try anthing to remove the Z5 on that spot to see if we can get the haze back? That would indicate it is simply covered up, and not fixed if we can. Thanks again everyone!
Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,324
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From: Guelph, Ontario
I hear this mentioned a lot, but wouldn't it be more productive to use a semi aggressive combo (such as Meguiar's 83 and an orange pad), even if it produces some micromarring?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
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Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 93
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From: Phoenix Arizona
I hear this mentioned a lot, but wouldn't it be more productive to use a semi aggressive combo (such as Meguiar's 83 and an orange pad), even if it produces some micromarring?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: 3rd planet from the sun
Maybe try Menzerna Final Polish II instead of ZPC. Maybe it is not as abrasive as ZPC, but at least you are staying in the same family of products. I know there are some experts here and I have used ZPC after MIP wiith good results. Good luck!
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
I hear this mentioned a lot, but wouldn't it be more productive to use a semi aggressive combo (such as Meguiar's 83 and an orange pad), even if it produces some micromarring?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
For example, if I allow myself 3 hours to work on just the hood alone, couldn't I remove more imperfections by doing multiple passes with orange & 83 to start out with since it would cut so much better? I could spend the first two hours working that combo many times, then spend the last hour polishing it off nicely with M80/white pad, getting rid of any micromarring that the first combo might've created. If I just stuck to the white pad the entire time isn't it possible that I might not remove as many imperfections?
If you're a pro detailer with extensive experience, then you just use the rotary to do your paint correction, and (if at all) use the PC for a quick pass for your finishing work. If that's your situation, then you don't need to use more than a white pad on your PC.
If you're a regular guy, (no rotary), trying to do paint correction, it would take forever with a white pad on a PC - in fact, for me on a Vette, I really cannot accomplish anything at all with a white pad. I use an orange pad with MIP and often stop there because the finish looks perfect to me. Sometimes remove light defects with orange/ZPC combination.
My own opinion is to stay away from the Lake Country Yellow pad with the PC because you might cause marring that is difficult to remove by PC (but could be removed qutie well with the rotary). I use the orange pad all the time with no problems. But if the orange pad and MIP will not remove a defect, then I go to my rotary.
Sorry I have no experience with Meg#83 - you might want to send TH0001 a pm and ask his opinion about using it with an orange pad.
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Williamstown NJ
I have to agree that my finish looked great after the Orange pad, and MIP. THere was no oil left behind as I did wipe it down wiht an alcohol water mix. I am extremely new to this, but I have great vision, and can tell if I am causing damage. I am not saying the orange pad took away all of the damage in my paint by no means, but given that, I also do not see any damage. I actually thought it would of have helped being a little bit more abrasive, but I am sure that would of have hurt. The only problem in this whole project I had was the slight fog from the ZPC with white pad using my PC. However, I would never skip this step because it definitely added shine over my first step. I then found (Thanks to all of you) that the fog is normal. I have since put one coat of Z5 so far, and it removed 90% of the haze. I am sure the missed haze was due to my lack of experience appliying. I am sure my second coat will remove the rest. That car looks AMAZING already, and I cannot express how thankful I am to all of you. I will find a way to post pics when I am finished.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Likes: 2
From: Orange CA
I sent an email to Sal Zaino, to assist with the question of Z-PC haziness and the application of Z5 over Z-PC to bring out the shine and remove the milky haziness. There was some question over whether Z5 was hiding an issue or whether it was providing correction. I'll share Sal's response;
What you are seeing is a hazy residue left by using too much Z-PC,,
Z-5 is removing the hazy residue.....
If the Z5 is somehow removed, will the haziness reappear?
No....
Z-5 is removing the hazy residue.....
If the Z5 is somehow removed, will the haziness reappear?
No....
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Williamstown NJ
Thanks daddoe. That is great to hear. I did lessen the amount I was using on the rest of the car, but still got some haziness. Must be just with Black cars. Anyway, no big deal. My second coat of z5 is drying now. Thanks again. I think it is good that we all know what to expect if we cross this again.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
thanks , Daddoe -
too much ZPC ? never thought of that causing haze.
I've never seen the haze like this from Zaino PC on black.
I HAVE had some hazing with 3M #39009 on black, when I overworked the polish past the point of drying. Agentf1 helped me fix that in the past.
good info
too much ZPC ? never thought of that causing haze.
I've never seen the haze like this from Zaino PC on black.
I HAVE had some hazing with 3M #39009 on black, when I overworked the polish past the point of drying. Agentf1 helped me fix that in the past.
good info
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 13
From: Dallas/Grand Prairie Texas
After reading a few posts, my first thought with haziness and ZPC is using too much, it's not breaking down and completely drying and residue left over that is very difficult to wipe off. I dont' think ZPC is really made for a white pad, you should use it with an orange pad, that maybe one reason it's not breaking down properly, as well as turn the speed up to 5-6.
ZPC is not that aggresive, I've never had any haze with it, I just used it on a black Lexus tonight (very soft clear btw) and it finished down perfectly.
Of course I don't put it on too thick, and I work it in plenty till it's almost clear, then wipe off and the paint looks like.......WOW!!
The way I work it in, is starting off on speed 3, spreading it all around, then once spread I jump it up to 6 then work it in real good for a little a couple minutes moving over the surface slowly, then once worked in, go over it faster to insure it's finished off.
Wipe clean. No residue, no haze or anything....
Josh
ZPC is not that aggresive, I've never had any haze with it, I just used it on a black Lexus tonight (very soft clear btw) and it finished down perfectly.
Of course I don't put it on too thick, and I work it in plenty till it's almost clear, then wipe off and the paint looks like.......WOW!!
The way I work it in, is starting off on speed 3, spreading it all around, then once spread I jump it up to 6 then work it in real good for a little a couple minutes moving over the surface slowly, then once worked in, go over it faster to insure it's finished off.
Wipe clean. No residue, no haze or anything....
Josh
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From: Williamstown NJ
Not sure what happened. I will not deny the possibility of me using too much, but it did not seem like it. I tried agian with a simple thin line of ZPC on the pad, and got the same blueish haze. The Z5 definitely removed it. This has been a major learning experience for me. The main thing I learned, and am still dealing with is that I will NEVER even think bout putting Clear Seal on my car again. I just washed it extremely hard, and there is still some left behind. Clearseal single hadedly ruined all of my previous steps as far as the final look of the car. I took the car out last night for the first time, and it looked even worse with streaks. You try to wipe it, and it simply spreads. I almost have it off now, but defintely will not use that on my Black Z anymore. I cannot imagine applying it any lighter either. I spray per panel. I heard this might just show on black, but the greasy residue would still be there on any car I would think. That car is looking really good other than that which one more wash will clear up though. Thanks!
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 93
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From: Phoenix Arizona
Not sure what happened. I will not deny the possibility of me using too much, but it did not seem like it. I tried agian with a simple thin line of ZPC on the pad, and got the same blueish haze. The Z5 definitely removed it. This has been a major learning experience for me. The main thing I learned, and am still dealing with is that I will NEVER even think bout putting Clear Seal on my car again. I just washed it extremely hard, and there is still some left behind. Clearseal single hadedly ruined all of my previous steps as far as the final look of the car. I took the car out last night for the first time, and it looked even worse with streaks. You try to wipe it, and it simply spreads. I almost have it off now, but defintely will not use that on my Black Z anymore. I cannot imagine applying it any lighter either. I spray per panel. I heard this might just show on black, but the greasy residue would still be there on any car I would think. That car is looking really good other than that which one more wash will clear up though. Thanks!
It makes no sense, but it's true.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
I admit I've had trouble with streaking on black with CS also.
But on my Victory Red Vette, fantastic - can't live without it.
I'm not giving up on CS - because of how great it looks on my Red. I think it just takes a little while to learn how to use it.
Don't give up on CS- next time just do a very small test area - walk away for a half hour , come back - see if you can practice a few times and determine
Big problem is that if you do this outside, esp in the heat, you may get very tiny droplets of overspray blowing around, which ruin your finish - be sure to use CS inside only.
But on my Victory Red Vette, fantastic - can't live without it.
I'm not giving up on CS - because of how great it looks on my Red. I think it just takes a little while to learn how to use it.
Don't give up on CS- next time just do a very small test area - walk away for a half hour , come back - see if you can practice a few times and determine
- how much to spray for best results
- how close to the paint to spray it (I'd recommend about 4 inches!, while you are actually moving the bottle across the paint and spraying)
- how quickly you can spread it with the applicator -
Big problem is that if you do this outside, esp in the heat, you may get very tiny droplets of overspray blowing around, which ruin your finish - be sure to use CS inside only.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 1
From: In a treestand!
I used the Fusion one time and I didn't like the results. It is the only Zaino product I don't use anymore. It just looked like it made the finish worse. I stay with MIP and then FP and then Z5 & Z2.
