View Poll Results: what's the next step?
PC (random orbital) and abrasive product
4
57.14%
Rotary + abrasive
0
0%
Chemical cleaner - tell me which one.
3
42.86%
Wet sand
0
0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll
Blobs from outer space
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Blobs from outer space
Poorly maintained car, left outside. Black as you can see.
Among some pretty serious paint damage, other flaws...
There are these black blobs on the hood.
Thought they were tar from roadwork? Each one elevated about 2 to 3 mm from the surface. You CAN indent them a bit with your fingernail if you press. Very adherent - even with fingernail could not remove them. Auto shampoo, Tarminator (with sheepskin mitt), and even Sonus Green clay - no sign of damage to these blobs at all.
And they are pretty big, as you can see.
Just curious - anyone know what this is?
if tar, how did it get on the hood in such big blobs? Did the owner park it under a road crew vehicle? And they are oriented diagonally across the hood.
Thought I'd share it with you guys - have never seen anything like this before.
What would you try next? ... I thought about a buffer, but figured it would just embed in the pad and destroy it.
Seriously thought about wet sanding.
Give me your vote -- later I'll tell you the sacrilegious method I actually used - I'm definitely going to hell for this...
Among some pretty serious paint damage, other flaws...
There are these black blobs on the hood.
Thought they were tar from roadwork? Each one elevated about 2 to 3 mm from the surface. You CAN indent them a bit with your fingernail if you press. Very adherent - even with fingernail could not remove them. Auto shampoo, Tarminator (with sheepskin mitt), and even Sonus Green clay - no sign of damage to these blobs at all.
And they are pretty big, as you can see.
Just curious - anyone know what this is?
if tar, how did it get on the hood in such big blobs? Did the owner park it under a road crew vehicle? And they are oriented diagonally across the hood.
Thought I'd share it with you guys - have never seen anything like this before.
What would you try next? ... I thought about a buffer, but figured it would just embed in the pad and destroy it.
Seriously thought about wet sanding.
Give me your vote -- later I'll tell you the sacrilegious method I actually used - I'm definitely going to hell for this...
Last edited by bugman; Sep 22, 2007 at 11:21 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 124,407
Likes: 288
From: .... NJ
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05 thru '19
Hard to tell from the pics, but could it be paint damage that is bubbling from underneath?
Did you try mineral spirits? I would think if it is something that fell on it a cleaner to remove it would be best.
Did you try mineral spirits? I would think if it is something that fell on it a cleaner to remove it would be best.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 13
From: Dallas/Grand Prairie Texas
Just a guess, but looks like really bad tree sap.
Try bug and tar remover, be generous and let it soak for a little while.
Also adhesive remover would be a try.
Just really hard to say.
Try bug and tar remover, be generous and let it soak for a little while.
Also adhesive remover would be a try.
Just really hard to say.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,110
Likes: 6
From: Red Sox Nation! RI
Tree sap was my guess too. Maybe tree sap on steroids? You live near a nuclear power plant or something? 
I got the same thing from parking at a friend's house but they weren't quite that big.
I got the same thing from parking at a friend's house but they weren't quite that big.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
You know what - you have to be right - that must be tree sap -
I'd just never seen it as HUGE black blobs like this in my life ! It's really unbelievable.
Well, I actually thought it might be fun if I inflicted some serious damage to the clearcoat - to give me more practice with paint correction. There were some nice advantages to this car.
This might give you a flavor of the condition of the car.
tail:
a sample of the wheels:
man, the poor things were just SCREAMING in agony...
This model comes with a convenient bug and paint-etching collector on the front:
NONE of those spots are water droplets - each one is either a bug spleen, appendix, a stone chip, or a deep etching mark
Well, since things could ONLY get better....
I'd just never seen it as HUGE black blobs like this in my life ! It's really unbelievable.
Well, I actually thought it might be fun if I inflicted some serious damage to the clearcoat - to give me more practice with paint correction. There were some nice advantages to this car.
- theres really no way I could make it worse
- My sister-in-law's car. I'm doing this as a nice surprise for her. So not a paying customer
- It's not a Corvette
, so a good chance to experiment. - wife was away all day, so I was free to PLAY !
This might give you a flavor of the condition of the car.
tail:
a sample of the wheels:
man, the poor things were just SCREAMING in agony...
This model comes with a convenient bug and paint-etching collector on the front:
NONE of those spots are water droplets - each one is either a bug spleen, appendix, a stone chip, or a deep etching mark
Well, since things could ONLY get better....
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Here was my solution...
I was always curious what kind of damage you might do with a SCOTCHBRITE pad on clearcoat. There was only one way to find
out
Well, here's the result, kind of...
Note several things:
So I've learned a couple of things today:
Not only the baseline cobwebbing, now the scotchbrite-induced
marring and deep scratching, but also there are lots of these:
areas where the sap and/or bug guts that have been left on the paint
for months at a time have seriously etched the clear -
This is going to be fun - have to get a case of beer for this project...
I was always curious what kind of damage you might do with a SCOTCHBRITE pad on clearcoat. There was only one way to find
out
Well, here's the result, kind of...
Note several things:
- only the FOCAL damage over the blobs was done by me -
you can pretty much see the places where I have scrubbed
the spots off and totally ruined the clear. - take a look at the lower part of the photo, below the body
seam - that paint was NOT touched by scotchbrite - you can
see what bad shape it was in.
So I've learned a couple of things today:
- Scrubbing really hard with a Scotchbrite pad on your clearcoat
is probalby NOT a good thing overall. - But a scotchbrite and Tarminator is an effective (even if
destructive) way to get those treesap blobs off a car ... hee hee
Not only the baseline cobwebbing, now the scotchbrite-induced
marring and deep scratching, but also there are lots of these:
areas where the sap and/or bug guts that have been left on the paint
for months at a time have seriously etched the clear -
This is going to be fun - have to get a case of beer for this project...
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Took some fun pics for those interested:
a tiny sanding block (very flexible) which actually came with a duplicolor
paint chip repair kit I bought years ago - it's just right for small spots
like this.
2000 grit paper from Meguiars, and lots of water...
kind of cool how the clearcoat looks like milk as you sand it - gives me a kick...
I'm left with a nice dull, but smooth area:
Time for some polishing.
I chose to go with an orange pad, speed 6 on
a PC7424, and Menzerna 106ff polish - my first time using it. My
favorite (Zaino PC fusion) just wasn't quite enough for the depth of
damage all over the hood, and for removing 2000 grit sandmarks.
a tiny sanding block (very flexible) which actually came with a duplicolor
paint chip repair kit I bought years ago - it's just right for small spots
like this.
2000 grit paper from Meguiars, and lots of water...
kind of cool how the clearcoat looks like milk as you sand it - gives me a kick...
I'm left with a nice dull, but smooth area:
Time for some polishing.
I chose to go with an orange pad, speed 6 on
a PC7424, and Menzerna 106ff polish - my first time using it. My
favorite (Zaino PC fusion) just wasn't quite enough for the depth of
damage all over the hood, and for removing 2000 grit sandmarks.
Last edited by bugman; Sep 23, 2007 at 05:32 AM.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Not a great picture (in terms of lighting), but I think you can see some
improvement in the surface by now.
My finger is pointing to the exact are where the etch was previously seen,
the same area that was wet sanded.
by the end of the night, I've only gotten about half the hood polished to
reasonably good results... have to get to bed. More fun tomorrow !
improvement in the surface by now.
My finger is pointing to the exact are where the etch was previously seen,
the same area that was wet sanded.
by the end of the night, I've only gotten about half the hood polished to
reasonably good results... have to get to bed. More fun tomorrow !
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,110
Likes: 6
From: Red Sox Nation! RI
Looks like the bug guts and tree sap did more damage than the scotchbrite pad. Nice job with the wet sanding, that was some deep etching. I'd do an ISO wipe down after the 106ff to make sure you got rid of all the hazing. I'm cleaning up some spot wet sanding haze on my car by hand and noticed SIP and 106ff will hide some of the defects. There must be a little glaze or something in it.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: Jackson Township OH
Isn't that the same car you worked on several months ago? Seems your efforts are in vain as far as getting the owner to take a little better car of it, but as you say a good learning opportunity as well as an act of kindness. The last post of you working on the sister-in-laws VW included you restoring the wheels from brake dust black to normal if I recall.
You sure are a good brother-in law.
You sure are a good brother-in law.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,479
Likes: 13
From: Dallas/Grand Prairie Texas
Very nice work.
Loved the trashed out clears, they just look so much more improved when you're done and the owner are always in shock at what can be accomplished. Like a new paint job sometimes.
Loved the trashed out clears, they just look so much more improved when you're done and the owner are always in shock at what can be accomplished. Like a new paint job sometimes.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
wow - you guys are amazing!
yes, Josh and C4Boy --- looks like you win the prize.
here is the smoking gun that I found when I popped the hood today:
look in the upper right --- tons of pine needles, parts of pine branches.
I think this solves the mystery.
And Blueracer - you get the second prize - yes, this is the car I worked on maybe 6 months ago ? can't remember when. Unfortunately my results then did not result in a religious conversion for the owner
Well, put in about 4 more hours today - wet sanding various etched areas from bird bombs. Used PC, rotary, wet sanding -- the works. Various Menzerna polishes. Results were good, but not amazing. Sadly, this is a really good vehicle - nice engine, 93,000 miles -- but really needs lots of dents pulled out, and a total re-paint.
Frustrating that even with wet sanding, I could only take it so far --- there are just so many deep scratches (though to primer) that you cannot make it perfect.
Total - about 8 hours over 2 days I'd estimate - and that's only for exterior, wheels, paint correction, glass, clay, 1 coat z5p / zfx, Z6 on top. Let me find some more pics for ya - it was a tough weekend project.
Lessons for today:
yes, Josh and C4Boy --- looks like you win the prize.
here is the smoking gun that I found when I popped the hood today:
look in the upper right --- tons of pine needles, parts of pine branches.
I think this solves the mystery.
And Blueracer - you get the second prize - yes, this is the car I worked on maybe 6 months ago ? can't remember when. Unfortunately my results then did not result in a religious conversion for the owner
Well, put in about 4 more hours today - wet sanding various etched areas from bird bombs. Used PC, rotary, wet sanding -- the works. Various Menzerna polishes. Results were good, but not amazing. Sadly, this is a really good vehicle - nice engine, 93,000 miles -- but really needs lots of dents pulled out, and a total re-paint.
Frustrating that even with wet sanding, I could only take it so far --- there are just so many deep scratches (though to primer) that you cannot make it perfect.
Total - about 8 hours over 2 days I'd estimate - and that's only for exterior, wheels, paint correction, glass, clay, 1 coat z5p / zfx, Z6 on top. Let me find some more pics for ya - it was a tough weekend project.
Lessons for today:
- good detailers are under-appreciated. this is an unbelieveable amount of work - and I'm not that good!
- Don't park under a pine tree
- If you do get a bird bomb, bug spleen, or sap on the hood - please remove it in less than a year.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Decided to tackle the tail bumper.
Extremely badly scratched:
a moderate improvement.
There still are many deep and moderate scratches that cannot be removed without re-paint. It was pretty frustrating....
after all my efforts:
Here are some final pics:
distance 12 feet - purposely taken at sunset to make all look MUCH
better than in real life !
Hood minus the outer space nodules:
here's a picture in the most unflattering of light - you can see many imperfections remain, even after wetsanding focal defects....
And those wheels really are nice - just need to be cleaned more than
once every presidential election:
Thanks for tuning in. Just fun for me to share my story - I'm not a pro,
my results are not perfect, but I keep learning. I value your
comments and suggestions A good vehicle to learn with.
Extremely badly scratched:
- wet sand 2000 grit
- wet sand 3000 grit
- rotary: LC orange pad, Menzerna Intensive Polish, 1500 rpm 3 passes.
- PC: LC orange pad, Menzerna 106ff, speed 6, 3 passes.
- Z5P-Zfx 1 coat
a moderate improvement.
There still are many deep and moderate scratches that cannot be removed without re-paint. It was pretty frustrating....
after all my efforts:
Here are some final pics:
distance 12 feet - purposely taken at sunset to make all look MUCH
better than in real life !
Hood minus the outer space nodules:
here's a picture in the most unflattering of light - you can see many imperfections remain, even after wetsanding focal defects....
And those wheels really are nice - just need to be cleaned more than
once every presidential election:
Thanks for tuning in. Just fun for me to share my story - I'm not a pro,
my results are not perfect, but I keep learning. I value your
comments and suggestions
A good vehicle to learn with.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
Hey C4boy - are you using the 106ff as your final polish after SIP?
I'm new with the 106ff, and I tried to use it alone, but found it not quite as deep a cut as my MIP. So I'm thinking it is probably less aggressive than MIP, more than MFP-II -- what are your thoughts?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,110
Likes: 6
From: Red Sox Nation! RI
. With that kind of work into it, it reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Jerry's mechanic fixes his Saab then takes off with it out in the country. Occasionally, I'm tempted to break into someone's garage and secretly check to see how the car looks. I just came in from wet sanding parts of my nose..... I don't know how some of these guys do it when it comes to older cars - and I think most of them are underpaid. It's time consuming hard work, plus you still need skill
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,034
Likes: 11
From: Lewes DE
seriously - consider in many regions, couldn't get more than maybe $250 for this work - that's $30/ hr. But you take a huge risk - if you burn through the clearcoat, or sand through it.
hey - everyone please go out and buy your detailer a beer today
and tip well.
hey - everyone please go out and buy your detailer a beer today
and tip well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,110
Likes: 6
From: Red Sox Nation! RI
yes, I agree - definitely my MIP and 106ff are a bit oily, as compared to Zaino PC fusion.
Hey C4boy - are you using the 106ff as your final polish after SIP?
I'm new with the 106ff, and I tried to use it alone, but found it not quite as deep a cut as my MIP. So I'm thinking it is probably less aggressive than MIP, more than MFP-II -- what are your thoughts?
Hey C4boy - are you using the 106ff as your final polish after SIP?
I'm new with the 106ff, and I tried to use it alone, but found it not quite as deep a cut as my MIP. So I'm thinking it is probably less aggressive than MIP, more than MFP-II -- what are your thoughts?
I did a C3 with MIP then FPII and thought it looked ok. I went over it again with SIP and that alone blew away the previous 2 polishes. 106ff just takes it to the next level.
I just did a couple passes on a section of my hood trying to remove some light pitting. I used 1 buffer, a wool pad and SIP, then did a couple more passes with another buffer and an orange pad & SIP. It barely took anything out.