So...Because PA Cosmic Spritz is out of stock I'm torn between Kamikaze Overcoat and PA High Gloss. As I've stated before when discussed with Loki and others my baby is a 2020 C8 with Ceramic Pro Gold four costs of 9H. Its mostly a garage queen but gets a run on beautiful days like today here in Myrtle Beach, SC. Any help I would be grateful indeed.

Mike

 

Contact Todd at Esoteric Car Care, he might have it..

 

Thank you sir. Will do.

 

Hi Mike,

In my opinion, I think you are linking together two products that are different to each other to fill in for PA Cosmic Spritz. Please allow me to explain...

Cosmic and HighGloss are "interchangeable" in that they are products that you would spray on top of a ceramic coated car (preferably) as an LSP - Last Step Product. They both have Si02 and Ti02, but the main difference is the percentage difference in those two components.. Unless I'm mistaken Cosmic has equal percentages of both at about 35%. HighGloss is 80% Ti02 and about 5% Si02. Cosmic will offer a bit more protection since the Si02 percentage is greater, and you might see some modest differences in the water behavior. HighGloss will not last as long but will offer more reflectivity that is ice cold and razor sharp and is off the charts. For lack of having complete written chemistry profile, and for simplicity's sake, they are almost the same product with different levels of the same ingredients. Although you need not apply them after every wash (assuming you wash every 2-4 weeks) because of their strength and longevity, they are so easy and satisfying to use, I end up (like many) using them as you would a common detail spray.

Overcoat is a different type of product than Cosmic and HighGloss - used differently. It is used as a sacrificial layer to ride on top of a pre-existing ceramic coating, or as a "coating lite" for folks that haven't made the jump to a pro level dedicated coating; folks what want something that is way easier to apply, act the same way (for the most part) and not last as long. As an example I use a very similar product to Overcoat as a sacrificial layer on my coating, and I top with HighGloss or Cosmic. I apply this product twice a year only. You would use Overcoat every 6-9 months (in my opinion) based on weather conditions, garage kept, how maintained, etc... Again, think of it as a "coating lite" not a spray on wipe off product.

So when you say that Cosmic is out of stock and you are considering HighGloss or Overcoat, please note that besides from HighGloss which is very close match, you are considering something very different.

If you wanted to experiment with Overcoat, purchase it, apply it, let it sit untouched for 24-48 hours and then apply Cosmic or HighGloss on top and then get ready to have your breath taken away.

Here is an example of the "gloss stack" I use for show prep. It involves a sacrificial layer product (1 step master), an extreme gloss enhancer (HighGloss), and an at the show last minute injection of "obnoxious" gloss and radiance. (Shinee Wax).

Please let me know if there is anything else that I can help you with.

Best to you,
Loki6

The Holy Trinity of Gloss

 

Some thoughts on Overcoat & Cosmic: https://budgetplan1.wordpress.com/ot...OSMIC_OVERCOAT

Have been using Overcoat since 2016 and added Cosmic & High Gloss to the shelf a year or 2 ago. Cosmic and High Gloss are kinda interchangeable to me depending on looks I'm after. Longevity not really a concern as during the season (Spring, Summer, Fall) I'll use 'em at least once a month if not more frequently (sometimes after each wash 😱 ) cuz they're just plain fun to use...and this is all supposed to be fun, no?

Was kinda into max reflectivity this Summer so used High Gloss predominantly and frequently until I developed a fondness for PA Glasscoat shampoo near the end of Summer. After washing car with the Glasscoat stuff didn't feel the need for a spray/spritz after each wash.

Really it's an embarrassment of riches with Overcoat, Cosmic and High Gloss; there is no bad choice.

 

Loki and Budgetplan....Guys, well I got told

Man that is a s**t ton of valuable information. As Loki indicated...and sadly I must say, I retired my Porter Cable 7424. Thankfully I have a mountain of 350-500 gsm towels. Looks as though I’m going into the personal detail business! I really enjoy gettin out to the garage, popping in my ear pods, bangin the blues and burning a premium cigar (away from the car of course). I like the idea from both experts regarding Overcoat and PA High Gloss as a combo. Plus, I love the idea of the three bottle cocktail from Loki. I feel very fortunate that I decided to have the baby ceramic coated. Helps a lot (IMO).

I’d like to thank both of you for your information and advice! I’m grateful and pleased as well.

Mike

 

Mike, so what did you end up doing? Let us know if we can help out, and satisfy our (mostly my) curiosity!
Best to you,
Loki6

 

So I've been following this and my pahg just arrived today. Mine is a garage queen and now in bed for the winter. Loki, you mention sacrificial coat. I use thea ridiculously expensive white carnuba wax which I love. Before using the pahg, should I wipe down a detail spray? I have been using pinnacle detail spray and recently found the pinnacle with cannula. Excited to try the high gloss tomorrow, my car is similar to the thread starter. I didn't need the protection so went with hg

 

Hi PSP,

A few comments...there are a few things in your post (in bold for ease of reference ) that I either need to understand better, or explain more to you so were are all on the same page here.

Sacrificial Layer
When I typically talk about a sacrificial layer, it is in a scenario whereas many times a car has a pre-existing ceramic coating. As you may know the primary component of a ceramic coating is Silicon Dioxide (SiO2). Many pro install only level coatings have an 85% plus amount of SiO2 suspended in a solvent based transfer liquid. Over this, the sacrificial layer product is layered or topped to bare the brunt of the elements and to make the coating last longer. These sacrificial layer products can be thought of as "coating lite" products since (like the ceramic coating) their main ingredient is SiO2, albeit at a much lower percentage that said coating. As an example the product I use has about a 25% SiO2 component. My car is ceramic coated by the way. As a side note, but still related, these sacrificial layer products (many times referred to as toppers) can be used as stand alone products on a car's bare clearcoat. Again, here they are functioning as a "coating lite"

Carnauba Based Products
The short story is that carnauba and SiO2 products don't play well together. Guys with ceramic coatings don't "wax" their cars in the old school way with a gorgeous, drippling wet glowing expensive carnauba wax because of the unfriendly chemistry between the two substances. Part of the characteristics of SiO2 is it's tendency to repel and reject "organic" things like dust and dirt, and unfortunately natural carnauba. If a coated car is "waxed" there will be streaking or smearing, or sweating as the SiO2 in doing it's job, will push out the expensive carnauba you just spent the better part of the afternoon applying meticulously. Like a fried egg not clinging to non-stick cookware. I always use the example of the body's natural capability and desire to reject a mismatched organ post transplant. You can get a new kidney, but if the match is not correct, the body will reject it.

So here is where my confusion or the disconnect comes in

So when you say you say you use carnauba wax and your car is similar to the thread starter (who's car is ceramic coated) I begin to think that something is off with that...maybe I'm not understanding something correctly, or you are perhaps misstating something?

So Again, if you wax a coated car, the results will be less than desirable. It will look smeary or streaky, etc...

Polish Angel, although 80% TiO2 (titania oxide) still has at least a 5% SiO2 component to it. If applied over a carnauba wax, there is (in my opinion) a very good possibility that the same effect will transpire in a day or so after application over a carnauba based product.

So what do you do?
There are a few options here...assuming there is carnauba on your car

First before you start dousing the car with different products, such as PAHG, take a good waterless wash and clean off an area to get rid of any dirt. Apply a small amount of PAHG and wait until the next day to see if it played well with whatever was on there. Perhaps the carnauba has thinned out and there is not enough on to case any problems?

If there was streaking and smearing, you are going to need to get rid of the carnauba if you want to use PAHG or any SiO2 based product. This is done by performing a strip wash with a non pH neutral shampoo that will eat away at and remove waxes and sprays and such. I use Purple Power Vehicle and Boat wash. In fact, I just did a strip wash a few weeks ago. After the strip wash, you may want to chemical decontaminate with and Iron and a Tar remover. Apply an IPA to make sure you are applying PAHG to a clean and chemical residue free surface, and finally apply the PAHG.

If there was no streaking or smearing 24 hours after the PAHG application, I'd give the car a real good wash with whatever you currently use, and look at the steps above after the strip wash step. Heck, you might just want to start from ground zero with a strip wash with a non pH neutral soap anyway to get the most out of PAHG.

After that, ditch the carnauba based sprays for as long as PAHG is on the car. If you want an LSP (last step product) to use in between PAHG applications, I'd reach for Shinee Wax or the new Xtreme Solutions Topper spray. For "detail spray" types of instances, where you likely need a bit of cleaning and lubrication with your gloss, I would recommend CarPro Elixir or something like a great waterless wash enhanced with SiO2 that you can cut and dilute into a cleaning detail spray. My choices would be the new Blue Uber rinseless wash, Jersey Devil, or CarPro Ech2O. These are all products that after purchase you dilute them (not Jersey Devil).

So there you have it. Let me know if something is unclear to you. I'm here to help!

Loki6

 

Got it, sorry for the confusion, I have several cars coated but not the Corvette. Since it's down for the winter, it seems a good time to strip and start over. I just got off the phone with esoteric and "their" paste was just cleared customs and should be there Monday. They suggested, like you (and I wasn't doubting you, I called before reading your post) not to use hg on top of what I have. Oh well, just money lol, I don't need the ceramic with the mileage I put on the car, I did have it out on my car and truck. Hey, I can use the hg on the wife's coated truck, she will flip. Thank you again

 

Not a problem.

Hey remember, whatever is on the Corvette now - assuming it's just a good carnauba - will eventually dissipate and then you can jump into the SiO2 world without having to commit to a full blown coating. I'd look at things like Polish Angel Cosmic Cosmic Glasscoat v2.0, Gyeon Can Coat, Tac 1 Step Master, all easily applied and will act similar to a ceramic coating for a 6-12 month period of time. If you don't like them, you can remove them with a good strip wash in a few months tops. If you used any of those products, you can feel free to top them with PAHG and be blown away with the results.

If you enjoy the sensation of waxing a car, Polish Angel makes a Highgloss Wax for SiO2 covered cars. So it's wax for the ceramic guy!

Best of luck to you whatever you decide on doing.

Loki6

 

Thank you again, didnt mean to take over the thread. Im going to give the pa wax a try and the hg after. (After your suggestions of stripping) I do love the.process and for the.amoint the car is.driven and no bad weather, just can't justify the ceramic. I just have to make sure the products are ok with xpel.

 

A problem you may run into w a wax on PPF is wax buildup in seams/edges that'll be hard to remove/clean up. Not impossible but likely a pain.

I only began doing it towards the end of Summer on the PPF'd C7 but a routine I've come to like is washing w PA Glasscoat Shampoo w occasional hits of the PA High Gloss Spritz, maybe every other wash.

I'd be too lazy to worry about wax buildup in PPF seams and edges so I'd personally never use a wax on PPF but that's just me taking the easy way out. One of the PA Carnauba Arts color-charged options might also be good for you given the light use...or just PA HG or Cosmic Spritzes.

 

I agree with you with the seams BUT, when I had the car done, the installer was able to cut the pieces so they all wrap around all the edges. (I learned the first time and am.fortunate to have a guy local that is well known for his work).