Racing strategy suggestions needed
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
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From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
Racing strategy suggestions needed
In Sacramento where I usually race on Wednesday nights, they don't allow any cars to run under 11.5 seconds regardless of whether or not you have a rollcage installed or not (which I do). Since the class I race in consists primarily of sub 11.5 second cars, what kind of strategy would I use?
To illustrate what I'm talking about, my car will run just over 11 seconds flat so let's say I'm running up against a car that runs 11.2's. Since we'd both have to use 11.5 dial-ins it seems as though getting a better reaction time would be no help whatsoever and the race would actually be won by whoever is able to hit their brakes at the right time and hoping that the other driver breaks out by less than you do.
Is it just me or is this a stupid way to race? I do have the option of racing at Infineon but since Sacramento is only 7 miles from where I work (as opposed to the 87 miles that Infineon is) I'd prefer to drive as little as possible.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Christopher
To illustrate what I'm talking about, my car will run just over 11 seconds flat so let's say I'm running up against a car that runs 11.2's. Since we'd both have to use 11.5 dial-ins it seems as though getting a better reaction time would be no help whatsoever and the race would actually be won by whoever is able to hit their brakes at the right time and hoping that the other driver breaks out by less than you do.
Is it just me or is this a stupid way to race? I do have the option of racing at Infineon but since Sacramento is only 7 miles from where I work (as opposed to the 87 miles that Infineon is) I'd prefer to drive as little as possible.
Any thoughts or suggestions?
Christopher
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
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From: Somers NY
The first thing that comes to mind is to find a way to "Temporally" slow your car down... example..
I have an 05 A4 Sat it ran 12.2 but if I want to slow it down I can pit the gear selector in 2 and it would start in 2nd gear... it would probably run 14s I don't know if you can do that with an A6 if you can put it in 2 for the launch, then at 5000 shift to S or what ever to let it run on its own...
I know my car runs 12.2 and if I want I can "Hold" 1 tenth and dial 12.3 but have to jump on the breaks damn hard to avoid breaking out... as for holding 5 Tenths
I have no idea how to run 11.5 with a 11.0 car...
A friend of mine made up a bunch of 1/4" pieces of wood, and would put them under his gas peddle to get it to run just a tad slower than 11.5 and dial what ever he wanted...
I have an 05 A4 Sat it ran 12.2 but if I want to slow it down I can pit the gear selector in 2 and it would start in 2nd gear... it would probably run 14s I don't know if you can do that with an A6 if you can put it in 2 for the launch, then at 5000 shift to S or what ever to let it run on its own...
I know my car runs 12.2 and if I want I can "Hold" 1 tenth and dial 12.3 but have to jump on the breaks damn hard to avoid breaking out... as for holding 5 Tenths
I have no idea how to run 11.5 with a 11.0 car... A friend of mine made up a bunch of 1/4" pieces of wood, and would put them under his gas peddle to get it to run just a tad slower than 11.5 and dial what ever he wanted...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8,629
Likes: 16
From: York PA
Try lifting at the 1000' cone.
Run with a full tank
Add some weight
What ever you do to slow the car down, you still have to cut a good light and run your dial to win against an experienced racer
Run with a full tank
Add some weight
What ever you do to slow the car down, you still have to cut a good light and run your dial to win against an experienced racer
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,653
Likes: 428
From: Melbourne Florida
Cruise-In IV Veteran
The best way is to change as little as possible...adding weight would be my choice and do everything else the same...if they don't allow that for some reason I would go to the option of inserting something under the go pedal to limit it's travel to run the number you want...
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
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From: Texas Hill Country
The reaction time is of highest importance in this case. You are just bracket racing. No big deal. Whoever has the best reaction time will have the most "room for error" at the finish line. Use your brakes at the top end and take the stripe by the smallest amount you can. Figure out if it's your tires or your air dam that will take the stripe. On most tracks the starting line lights are very close to the ground and are several inches higher at the finish line.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,251
Likes: 217
From: 2007 Nat'l Corvette Challenge 11.50 index Champ. New Jersey
You need to shift earlier if you have a manual car.
Also, your reaction time WILL play a big role, regardless of how fast you are. If your opponent trees you big, you can catch them, but you will break out if you do...
There is some decent advice above though.
Ron
Also, your reaction time WILL play a big role, regardless of how fast you are. If your opponent trees you big, you can catch them, but you will break out if you do...
There is some decent advice above though.
Ron
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
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From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
- If I cut a better light than my opponent, the goal would be to beat him by as small of a margin as possible
- If he cuts a better light than me, I could still catch him but in order to win the race I should hit the brakes at the finish line and actually let him beat me, with the theory that he would break out by more than me.
Does that make sense?
For what it's worth by the way, I'm not a newbie at this. I've done pretty well this year so far but it's always been while being able to have a dial-in that was representative of what my car would actually run.
Thanks for your help,
Christopher
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Texas Hill Country
The only problem with not getting a good light is that your opponent can also use his brakes. Even if you dump him, he can hammer the brakes, too. You will be more likely to break out than he will just based on MPH and will have to work the brakes harder. Your best solution is to get the better light and then drive up next to him and pace him down the track. Win by the narrowest margin you can perceive. Remember your air dam! Know what crosses the line before you race! Also, know if your air dam crosses only when you hit the brakes and the nose dives.....etc.
9 times out of 10 the winning bracket racer has the better light.
Under no circumstances should you let off the throttle. Always keep in floored and if you need to reel him in closer at the finish line just drag the brakes. Letting off the gas will slow you down too much in most cases and you could give up the stripe and if you need to get back in it, the car may not respond quickly enough due to the HP reduction you just caused.
9 times out of 10 the winning bracket racer has the better light.
Under no circumstances should you let off the throttle. Always keep in floored and if you need to reel him in closer at the finish line just drag the brakes. Letting off the gas will slow you down too much in most cases and you could give up the stripe and if you need to get back in it, the car may not respond quickly enough due to the HP reduction you just caused.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
Likes: 5
From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
The only problem with not getting a good light is that your opponent can also use his brakes. Even if you dump him, he can hammer the brakes, too. You will be more likely to break out than he will just based on MPH and will have to work the brakes harder. Your best solution is to get the better light and then drive up next to him and pace him down the track. Win by the narrowest margin you can perceive. Remember your air dam! Know what crosses the line before you race! Also, know if your air dam crosses only when you hit the brakes and the nose dives.....etc.
9 times out of 10 the winning bracket racer has the better light.
Under no circumstances should you let off the throttle. Always keep in floored and if you need to reel him in closer at the finish line just drag the brakes. Letting off the gas will slow you down too much in most cases and you could give up the stripe and if you need to get back in it, the car may not respond quickly enough due to the HP reduction you just caused.
9 times out of 10 the winning bracket racer has the better light.
Under no circumstances should you let off the throttle. Always keep in floored and if you need to reel him in closer at the finish line just drag the brakes. Letting off the gas will slow you down too much in most cases and you could give up the stripe and if you need to get back in it, the car may not respond quickly enough due to the HP reduction you just caused.
I was hoping that they're might have been a strategy if I didn't cut a good light but there really isn't, other than hoping the other guy gets a little overzealous and ends up being way ahead of me at the finish line. I think the only thing that *might* work in that case would be to hit the brakes if he's way ahead of me, but that'd be hit and miss at best. I actually won a trophy one night in that situation as my car hit the rev-limiter and although the other guy noticed it, he didn't back off enough. I ran a full tenth over my dial-in but because he didn't hit the brakes soon enough he broke out by .007 seconds.
Thanks for the help,
Christopher
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,172
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From: somers, ny
IMO, you need to figure out how to get the car to run the number....or at least close enough that you know how to kill enough to stay above the 11.5 limit. True in the example above where both cars are able to go way under, the guy with the light has the advantage. However, if you are running someone that can run the number and knows how to bracket race, you'll have a hard time, particularly if the other driver knows your bagging a bunch. Also consider the fact that in the case where both cars are capable of going way under, both drivers will be trying to take the stripe by a minimal amount. This will be come a game of chicken as to who is willing to go the furtherest before dumping. If you know how to run the number, you'll have an advantage over those that don't. Good luck
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
Likes: 5
From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
IMO, you need to figure out how to get the car to run the number....or at least close enough that you know how to kill enough to stay above the 11.5 limit. True in the example above where both cars are able to go way under, the guy with the light has the advantage. However, if you are running someone that can run the number and knows how to bracket race, you'll have a hard time, particularly if the other driver knows your bagging a bunch. Also consider the fact that in the case where both cars are capable of going way under, both drivers will be trying to take the stripe by a minimal amount. This will be come a game of chicken as to who is willing to go the furtherest before dumping. If you know how to run the number, you'll have an advantage over those that don't. Good luck
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 22
You might add a bit of weight (ballpark 100lbs = .10). Deep staging will cut off another .10 but your spot on the tree will be different and so will your RT. Another way to cut ET is to restrict your exhaust if possible. Lowering the shift points if possible will slow you down. Finally lifting at the 1000' mark and coasting across will shed lots of MPH and about .2-.3, but you still will have to race top end and things will look different coasting across (other car will really pull on you in the last 300') As stated here you still have to cut a good light and holding .5 is pretty hard to do.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,172
Likes: 11
From: somers, ny
From what i've seen, TQ mgmt will hurt your consistency, but i think you can program max throttle.......so just back off 100% max throttle in the computer until you get close. then either shift points or weight to fine tune. Good luck.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
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From: Texas Hill Country
I highly recommend against all these extra variables. The more you change the more you screw yourself up. Simple is better, IMO. I bracket race for about 25% of my yearly income..... Hit the light, pace the guy, and hope you had a better light. That's all you have to do. If you make the winning distance close enough (less than one fender), if you break out, chances are he will break out more if you have the better light. It's ALL about the light (reaction time)!!!
I will add that weight might not be a bad idea if you have a problem spinning because that will kill your consistency.
I will add that weight might not be a bad idea if you have a problem spinning because that will kill your consistency.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
Likes: 5
From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
I highly recommend against all these extra variables. The more you change the more you screw yourself up. Simple is better, IMO. I bracket race for about 25% of my yearly income..... Hit the light, pace the guy, and hope you had a better light. That's all you have to do. If you make the winning distance close enough (less than one fender), if you break out, chances are he will break out more if you have the better light. It's ALL about the light (reaction time)!!!
I will add that weight might not be a bad idea if you have a problem spinning because that will kill your consistency.
I will add that weight might not be a bad idea if you have a problem spinning because that will kill your consistency.
As long as I launch at the correct RPM the car is pretty consistent so I'm just going to treat it as a regular bracket race and hope for the best.
Christopher
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 13,298
Likes: 14
From: Somers NY
The best way is to change as little as possible...adding weight would be my choice and do everything else the same...if they don't allow that for some reason I would go to the option of inserting something under the go pedal to limit it's travel to run the number you want...
I made 8 or 9 runs all were between 12.21 & 12.27 I was getting about 1/2 revolution wheel spin on some of them ( more on the 12.27) so I wouldn't mind adding 50-100 lb AT THE MOST! But I'd never add 200+ lb just to prevent breakage.. If I had to slow my car down I'd make up some kind of restricter plate, or a stop to put under the gas pedal etc.... anything other than putting 200 - 300 lb in it.. JMO
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Vacaville Ca
St. Jude Donor '13
Christopher,
I know you always have your tuning laptop with you, why not pull a degree of timing out of it, If that is not enough pull another one, make your car a 11.5 car again so you can just concentrate on hitting the light and running it all out?
Just my thoughts...
I know you always have your tuning laptop with you, why not pull a degree of timing out of it, If that is not enough pull another one, make your car a 11.5 car again so you can just concentrate on hitting the light and running it all out?
Just my thoughts...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,097
Likes: 5
From: Brentwood World's first A6 in the 9's (including N/A, blower, turbo and nitrous cars) 9.950@139.267 CA
Christopher,
I know you always have your tuning laptop with you, why not pull a degree of timing out of it, If that is not enough pull another one, make your car a 11.5 car again so you can just concentrate on hitting the light and running it all out?
Just my thoughts...
I know you always have your tuning laptop with you, why not pull a degree of timing out of it, If that is not enough pull another one, make your car a 11.5 car again so you can just concentrate on hitting the light and running it all out?
Just my thoughts...
I know you usually run at Infineon, but I seem to remember the guys at Sac letting cars run under 11.5 occasionally as long as they have a cage. Do you recall ever having seen that?
Christopher
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,251
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From: 2007 Nat'l Corvette Challenge 11.50 index Champ. New Jersey
Just find lower shift points to keep the car at 11.5 & run the race as you normally would otherwise....
Ron