Been reading a lot here and on other forums about installing an intake manifolds. Pretty consistent advice on using a bead of Permatex Ultra Copper instead of the end seals that come with the intake manifold gasket.

However, Permatex makes no such recommendations for the Ultra Copper. On their web site, they recommend Ultra Black or Ultra Blue.

Comments?

 

We have used about all of the different types on the end seals at one point or another and have never had any issues. Take your pick but we mostly use High temp red or the right stuff (black).

 

I agree about using the sealer rather than the gaskets. I did come across some information about measuring the gap and using the gaskets if it is small enough. This may be the reason some have good luck with the gaskets and others not.

 

I've never had a problem with Ultra-black.

 

I have always used the rubber seals and first coat them with regular black RTV silcone, and have never had a problem.

They also look cleaner installed and provide better support and positioning of the intake maifold ends than just the bead does.

They have never pushed out on me yet.

 

Is the "Ultra Copper" sealer O2 sensor compatible?

 

I didn't use end gaskets and its leaked ever since. I would if I ever take it apart again. If you dont, make sure both surfaces are extremely clean and coat BOTH the manifold ends and the block rails. One of them will only need a light coat, but doing this promotes adhesion so it doesnt "skin" on you during instal and not adhere to the manifold. This is the step I learned the hard way.

 

Just regular black works perfect. After a couple of days I trim it up with a razor blade and it looks better than any gasket ever could. Never had one leak.

One trick is to allow it to tack up some before installing. You want it to be sticky.

JIM

 

For what it's worth,

I have done a hundred small blocks and big blocks. Read all the stories of how you should never use the seals. The only time I had trouble is with milled heads or a decked block. Kinda funny, but they have different affects on the end seal.

A decked block has the affect of squeezing the heads together and then you have a big gap. Learned the hard way on that one, they fell out. But, I cleaned out the gap with alcohol and ran a bead in (pushed it in the back with my finger). Never leaked a drop, and never had to pop the manifold. It was definitely worth the shot.

Milling the heads will squeeze that gap and the standard seal will either compress to the breaking point or prevent you from getting a good intake seal (by restricting the manifold from going where it needs to be). Actually saw a guy crack a manifold trying to tighten it up (there was no gap).

Best way to tell is to test fit the manifold. Check the gap and your seal thickness. Too small, toss the seal and use RTV only. Too big, I still use the seal, but I put RTV on both sides. Thin against the block, thick toward the maniifold. I have never had (another one) leak since.

What RTV? Check your gasket kit, they usually give you standard black RTV (for the ends of the seal). Although I have used clear and blue also without any problems.

This is purely a personal opinion, but I think copper in RTV is silly. I think they are playing Marketing on the old head gasket sealer that had copper in it. Back then we had steel head gaskets and that stuff actually did fill some voids. Copper in RTV? Plain old RTV fills all voids. What's the Copper for?

Good luck, with my 2 cents.

 

Without a doubt "The Right Stuff" by Permatex, part #29208, is by far THE best "silicone" sealer on the market at this time. It's also the most expensive, but it works. All 3 manufacturer's, G.M., Ford, and Mopar, recommed it's use. It is "sensor-safe" also and only requires about a minute to "setup".

We've just recently changed over to this product for ALL our silicone requirements along with the G.M. "thread sealer", part #12346004, for head bolt applications. We haven't had a single incident of an oil or a water leak on any dyno units we've tested. "The Right Stuff" seems to have some sort of "adhesive" included in it's ingredients. Thanks Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This is the product used by the mfr's. where no gaskets are used, only the "silicone". It gives you about a five minute work window and the unit can be used immediately.

 

I'd like to hear more about how THAT works.

The only time I had an end seal leak is one time, I when I used RTV and didn't use enough. Now, I like to set the manifold on the engine with the manifold to head gaskets in place and feel the size of the end gap with the tips of my fingers. I degrease and clean all the adjoining surfaces with lacquer thinner or alcohol. Then make sure the sealer, with or without a gasket, is O2 safe.

RACE ON!!!

 

I run about 3 beads worth,wait 1 minute and drop it down.Don't clean the excess, leave it alone.Clean it up if you must, after a few days.

 

Don't know if there's enough room in a forum to explain, but I can try if you really want to "hear more", and you explain what part you want to hear more about.