Anybody, I'm trying to degree the LPE 219, and can't turn the damn crank counter-clockwise without the crank bolt backing out!

How do I turn the motor over from the front without backing out the crank bolt? The motor is still in the car, and the heads are off. I am trying to do this by myself.

Please help!

 

use a longer bolt with a locking nut to jam against the end of the crank.

 

Do you mean 2 nuts right behind each other?

Please explain.

If the crank bolt threads in by turning right, and I am turning the crank to the left, won't the bolt always want to back out? Lefty loosey, righty tighty?


[Modified by 89gta383, 7:29 PM 9/27/2001]

 

tighten the nut against the end of the crank to lock the bolt from turning. if this does not work go to a speed shop and buy a crank socket that fits over the crank and uses the crank key to drive the crank.

 

Another way is to turn the engine from the back of the crank.

I just degreed in Steve's cam Friday and we used that method. I used four old flexplate bolts and a long screwdriver. Wedged the screwdriver between two of the bolts and used them for the needed leverage.

You DEFINITELY do not want the degree wheel to move even a tiny bit during the degreeing process or you'll have to start over from square one, finding TDC again.

With the engine in the car (not an issue with Steve's engine which was on a stand), you can still use the flexplate. Just remove all the spark plugs so the engine will turn easier and use the teeth on the flex plate and the block to turn the engine over.

Doing it alone, is a real PIA, because you'll have to keep going under the car, then out to check your dial indicator reading, then back under. So get a friend to give you a hand and call out indicator readings.

Better yet, let him get under the car and do all the work while you call out the readings.

Hope this helps.

Jake


[Modified by JAKE, 2:56 PM 10/1/2001]

 

Thanks, it is a pain doing it yourself.

I just ordered a crank socket.

 

Crank sockets are great and come in handy when doing work on an engine, but with the degree wheel bolted to the crank snout, there's no way to use the socket. It can't be slipped on because the degree wheel is in the way.

Using a very large 14" diameter degree wheel like the one I use prevents you from using the crank snout too. Just can't get to the snout.

Man, I've tried all kinds of different ways to turn the crank from the front of the engine, but in each case either the pointer got fudged or the degree wheel moved. Got tired of re-verifing TDC on #1, so I opted to make all my future crank movements from the back end of the crank.

Remember, the most important step in the degreeing process is having TDC on #1 absolutely perfect.

Using the lobe centerline method is more forgiving since you're, in effect using an average, but TDC for #1 must be exact no matter which method you use or else everything that follows will be off a like amount.

Also, if your intake lobes are asymmetrical, then you shouldn't use the lobe centerline method. Shoot for hitting the .050 intake closing reading instead. Of the four timing points (IO/IC/EO/EC) the IC is the most significant. That's the one you want to hit "right-on", and you can let the others "fall where they may" (within reason, of course). Seldom can you hit all four exactly per the timing card, and if you check all sixteen, well that's another story entirely.

If both the opening and closing ramps are the same, then you can use the lobe centerline method.

If you're using a lifter and pushrod along with your dial indicator, make sure the pushrod is as straight as you can eyeball it to prevent parallax error. I got tired of fooling with that setup and opted for a dial indicator which rides directly on the camshaft's #1 intake lobe. So much easier that way. CompCams, Crane and probably other sell 'em.

One last tip: In degreeing the cam, the only time you should move the crank counter-clockwise is when you are establishing TDC of #1. All cam degreeing movements should be in the normal direction of engine rotation. This prevents error from timing chain slop, etc. If you ever miss your mark - which ain't hard to do - you should go all the way 'round in the normal engine rotation direction and sneak up on .050 again.

There is a "work-around" for this though: Say you miss your .050 dial indicator spot by a few thousandths, you can turn the engine counter-clockwise a minimum of .200, then sneak up on .050 again. You won't find this trick in any of the "officially recommended" degreeing guides, but it will work flawlessly as long as you back up at least .200. By the time you get back close to .050, any slop will be out of the chain/gears.

Hope this helps.

Jake




[Modified by JAKE, 3:28 PM 10/1/2001]

 

Thanks for the advice. I ordered the comp cams socket, which lets you attach the degree wheel to the front of the socket, and still turn the crank.

 

Jake, what timing chain set up do you use that's adjustable? Suppose you find the cam out of time and you need to advance or retard the cam timing in order to set up a newly installed cam.

Thanks

 

Cloyes has a hex-adjust that lets you change I think .5 degree at a time.

 

Sorry for not answering sooner, but I've been assembling three desks and building three computers for my kids' rooms.

There are several different timing chain sets out there that will do the job.

I use CompCams (preferable) or Crane, but Cloyes and others make them too. I have found on two occasions that two new Cloyes sets had the TDC indicator "dot" stamped one tooth off, so you've really gotta check for that.

The crank gear on the roller sets usually have three different keyways which allows you to choose between "0" (zero), 4 degrees advances and 4 degrees retared. Choose the one that will put you in the direction you want to go.

If you need to further tweak the settings, you can use the little offset bushings that go on the cam dowel pin. These kits come in two forms, even and odd. The even kits has bushings for 0,2,4,6,8 and the odd kit has 0,1,3,5,7.

I never bother moving the cam if it comes within 1 degree of where I want it, but if you're a perfectionist, have at it.

Using the little offset bushings does require drilling out the holes in the cam gear, I believe the bit size is 13/32 which may be a little hard to find.

Also, when using the bushings, be sure to use a locking plate to keep the bushing from falling out the front. I also prevents the cam bolts from loosening.

Hope this helps.

Jake