Valve size is 2.02 and 1.60. It's interesting that someone would bring up the AFR 210's or the AFR 227's. A friend is building a similar 383, but with a miniram, and he bought the competition ported AFR 210's and had them 'cleaned up' by the same shop that ported mine. Look at his flow numbers:

.100 71 61
.200 141 122
.300 202 172
.400 250 219
.500 281 249
.600 298 261

Friend's TFS Twisted Wedge's ported at the same place below:

.100 74 49
.200 146 100
.300 222 146
.400 274 181
.500 293 210
.600 296 232

The exhaust flow on the ported AFR 210's is outrageous. He bought a nitrous kit for the car, and should fly with that exhaust flow.

 

TNT,

For what its worth, the fastest all motor Superram motor I know off is a 406 with thoroughly ported AFR 190's, 12-1 cr.... I think its a Cartek car, but don't remember for sure. Ralph knows the vette I'm talking about.

It runs somewhere around 10.6 @ 124 mph on all motor and advertised pump gas with DFI.... So I guess AFR 190's will do just fine on a 400+ cube motor.

Beach

 

Yes Carl, i didn't realize you were going to put a superram on top of those heads. It would be a waste of good heads. I think the suprram only flows about 270cfm AFTER it has been ported and polished or extrude honed. Someone here once said they got close to 300 outa one, but i don't know how. The superram will definitely be the limiting factor. I recently asked here if anyone had a superram that went quicker than 11.2 (regardless of cubic inches, cam, etc)........and i got no responses (well i got responses, but nobody with a bona fide superram running quicker than 11.2). From my experience, superram engines larger than 383ci get very little benefit outa the additional cubes as the SR cannot supply them. And the huge amount of low end torque is a bear to hook up. The only documented vette that i know of that ran in the tens with a SR was the Cartek 85. From memory, it was a 406 with ported 190s, ported SR, a huge hyd roller (like 238deg w/.600+ lift), with 13:1 CR and DFI. I've never seen the car run, but you can check out Cartek.com, i think there is an article on the car in there.

IMO, If you are really trying to make 600HP you better think about another intake and more cam than the 219.

 

I'm using a ported superram on top of the AFR 190's. I do have flow numbers with and without the complete superram, but they are at home. I will have to post them later.

I plan to use the superram and burn my own chips to get the most out of it, then swap to a converted LT1 intake or a miniram to see the changes.

I'd like to get the car into the high 10's with the 383, AFR 190's, superram, and LPE 219, but we'll see. I might have to change cams and gears to get there.

 

yes post those flow numbers. i would be very interested to see them. Maybe also give us some idea of the extent of the porting done to the SR. thx

 

Sorry about the delay.

Here are the previously posted TFS TW stock heads, intake only.

Head only head/miniram head/superram
.100 61.1 60.5 60.3
.200 129.9 128.3 123.5
.300 189.9 188.5 175.2
.400 235.0 231.9 209.9
.500 248.6 243.9 219.4
.600 250.6 244.0 218.6

These are my ported AFR 190's

head only head/superram
.200 146.3 137.2
.300 207.6 193.3
.400 255.5 227.5
.500 282.1 244.5
.600 295.2 253.5


This is with the complete ported upper and lower superram at 28". Intake only. We flowed so much stuff, we ran out of time to flow the exhaust.

You can see the restriction that the superram causes. My porter thinks the biggest problem is with the air coming into the plenum and having to make that big 90 degree turn into the runners.

I have a complete flowsheet if someone can post it for me. I'll fax it or e-mail it to you if you can post it. It shows each of the TPI components flowed seperately.

Sorry about the formatting. If somebody can edit my post and clean it up, I'd appreciate it.

[Modified by 89gta383, 7:05 PM 12/10/2001]


[Modified by 89gta383, 7:29 PM 12/10/2001]

 

I noticed earlier in the post that the 210CP option was listed as $1000 over the already pricey 210RR head. The correct price is $425 as of May '01. My 210CP heads peaked at like 305 cfm on the intake side from AFR prior to minor finishing work.

My old 190RR were in the 265 range. They worked well on the old 350 motor with a SR. Best run was in the low 11s with very high 120 MPH (horrible 60's). I had lots of work done to the SR (lots of porting and epoxy) and it still only flowed in the high 270s. The new modded MRII flows way past the 300 cfm mark (excess of 330 cfm). The modded MRII exceeds the capability of the AFR210CP heads.

Just my read on a great topic,
Aaron

 

AKS, what kind of work was done to the superram to make it flow in the high 270's? TEA said that the key is increasing the cross-sectional area, which I think is just making the whole runner as big as possible. Why did you need epoxy, did you have to weld some sections?

What was your combo when you turned low 11's at 120mph with the SR?

Thanks!

 

Yes, i would be interested in the details of that combo too. Was it NA? 120mph with a 350 SR NA would be amazing.

GTA, could you at least post the flow numbers from the SR. I have no scanner either, so i can't help posting the image.

 

Ralph,
I am the same guy that was building the 4" stroke L-98 motor about 4 months ago that you and beech ran through your simulators that spit out estimates of 9.4 @ 149.

The old combo that ran the 11.21 @ 128 mph (2.68 60') was a bone stock rotating assy with a P-600B that made 7-8 psi boost at 54-5600 rpm with monster heads and large cam. The full on street car ('87 roadster) that this combo was run in weighs in at 3500 lbs w/out driver.

As for the mods to the SR, the runners were significantly opened the complete length and were siamesed about 1" down from the plenum. Exits were welded and ported to match a 1206 FelPro. The plenum openings to the port were "teardropped", and excess volume in the SR was liberated through excessive use of epoxy. The EGR recess was also removed. I had posted pictures on a thread about six months back.

The MRII has been sliced, diced, ground, welded, ect. I have access to a flow bench, and am pretty handy with the tig and the mig. I was just playing with these manifolds while I was getting other parts together.

BTW, I will try to dig up my old stock numbers for the Accel base, stock manifold combo. I believe these were near 230 range.

 

AKS, thanks for refreshing my memory (which aint too good anymore). I figured those numbers had to be with nitrous or a bower. Where are you on that project (4" stroke)?? Hard to keep up with you.

If possible could you post those pictures of the worked over SR again. I've been assuming that my ported SR flows about 260, but that is a pure guess. Would like to see how much work you did to get 270 out of it. The SR is a great street/strip intake, but as i guessed, it max'es out quick, and becomes the limiting factor in large cubes and/or great heads (300cfm heads don't do much when you throw a 270cfm intake on top of them).


[Modified by ralph, 11:13 AM 12/11/2001]

 

Ralph,
Regarding the 4" stroke project. I finished the install approx. 3 months ago. The motor still needs some slight tweaking on the computer side. I am having difficulty going past the 80-85% tune level. I am trying to gain comfort with the fact that I may be pushed on to a F.A.S.T. computer system. As for the actual motor, this is a great combo with lots of low end torque. If you would like to see the finished product, go to the C-4 Tech section and look up a post called "Finally pictures of the engine" or something thereabout. I had good comments from the group. Just to refresh, the motor is an L-98 block with splayed caps, all billet rotating assy, AFR210CP, CC solid roller, modded MRII, 1-3/4" long tubes, 3" exhaust, ATI P-600B making 11 psi @ 6300 RPM, 3-stage NOS system, SPEC Stage 4 Kevlar, ZF tranny conversion, 3.45D44, ect.

The car should make like 675RWHP w/out NOS.

Regarding the request for the pictures of the SR, I will see if I can dig these up and repost. Before the addition of the epoxy, and the serious "teardrops" in the plenum, the intake was fully ported and flowed like 255 cfm.

I am now in the process of looking at new manifolds (sheetmetal) to mate 18° heads on to a large cube (440+) tall deck small block. This motor will likewise be blown (probably ATI Procharger D-3), but will definitely have FAST for engine management. Will also go in one of my C4s ('89 coupe; just a tad over 3000#). I have not gotten brave enough to look at large cubin the C5 roadster, just heads and cam to date.

Aaron

 

flow numbers for 89gta.

 

Thanks Dennis!!! that will take some time to digest!!!

 

I can't see it either, is it on your site?