Down to the cam choice!
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: St. Petersburg FL
Down to the cam choice!
Got every thing together to build the motor! Going to be used for a driver (maybe once a month) bracket (hoping to compete Corvette challenge) and maybe 4 autocrosses a year.
427 Stroker small block
forged h beam rods
forged crank
750 CFM Holley Mechanical sec's (will propably change to 825 Mighty Demon)
Air gap performer
Dart 230 Heads 2.08I 1.6E
Crower 1.6 & 1.65 rollers
2800 stall
Pro built 700R4
3.07 Dana 36 (till it goes, than a Ford 9" 4-link with 3.73 gears)
SO it comes down to the cam.
The 1st is a Hyd roller:
Comp Cams
288 I 294 E at .050 236 I 242 E .554 I (1.6) .609 E (1.65) 112LSA
According to desktop Dyno (propably inflated!)
The 2nd is a solid roller with Endurex solid rollers
280 I 286 E at .050 242 I 248 E .608 I (1.6) .633 E (1.65) 112 LSA
Desktop Dyno
I will only be spinning this motor to about 6500 MAX
with a 200 shot of NOS
So which cam????????
[Modified by autoxer, 12:46 PM 7/23/2002]
[Modified by autoxer, 7:18 PM 7/23/2002]
427 Stroker small block
forged h beam rods
forged crank
750 CFM Holley Mechanical sec's (will propably change to 825 Mighty Demon)
Air gap performer
Dart 230 Heads 2.08I 1.6E
Crower 1.6 & 1.65 rollers
2800 stall
Pro built 700R4
3.07 Dana 36 (till it goes, than a Ford 9" 4-link with 3.73 gears)
SO it comes down to the cam.
The 1st is a Hyd roller:
Comp Cams
288 I 294 E at .050 236 I 242 E .554 I (1.6) .609 E (1.65) 112LSA
According to desktop Dyno (propably inflated!)
The 2nd is a solid roller with Endurex solid rollers
280 I 286 E at .050 242 I 248 E .608 I (1.6) .633 E (1.65) 112 LSA
Desktop Dyno
I will only be spinning this motor to about 6500 MAX
with a 200 shot of NOS
So which cam????????
[Modified by autoxer, 12:46 PM 7/23/2002]
[Modified by autoxer, 7:18 PM 7/23/2002]
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 159
Likes: 21
From: McKinney Tx
Re: Down to the cam choice! (SWCDuke)
you may have entered the cam events wrong and be using seat to seat or .050 for your big numbers because you won't turn that high with Dart 230 heads and 427 inches. You should be more like a 6200 power peak or less with those small cams. I think it thinks that the seat timing is your .050 timing.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Down to the cam choice! (RACER7088)
You have something wrong because those cam duration numbers would be hp peaking at less than 6000 with a 427. My Dart Heads with 2.08/1.625 are @ the same as what is now sold as their 227cc. They have flow numbers in the low 300 CFM out of the box.
Your not going to Auto-X this machine are you?
Your not going to Auto-X this machine are you?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: St. Petersburg FL
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
I did have the duration numbers mixed up in the cam math section,,but I did run everything again at the .050 numbers and re-posted them,,I called a sprint car engine builder and he ran the numbers and he thought they were close. American Speed builds almost the same hydraulic motor with 1.6 and 1.5 rockers and posted 554 HP at 5900 RPM with 538 FP at 4500 RPM. I'm thinking I can run a little bit more cam with a solid roller according to everything I've read, so I went up a little on the solid.
Yes, I will autocross the car a little, we run on airport runways and test tracks, it's almost a drag racing event with a few cones in between!!!
Does this thing sound streetable?,,,I don't give a rat's butt about gas mileage or a smooth idle,,just hoping to get enough vacuum to stop it once it gets going!
Yes, I will autocross the car a little, we run on airport runways and test tracks, it's almost a drag racing event with a few cones in between!!!
Does this thing sound streetable?,,,I don't give a rat's butt about gas mileage or a smooth idle,,just hoping to get enough vacuum to stop it once it gets going!
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 7
From: Orlando Florida
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
Sound like a killer SB so far, I would need to consider more information in order to determine the best cam. Could you post more detailed info about which pistons your going to run, and especially, what is your targeted final compresson ratio. If your compression is high the cylinder head pressure will be increased and that would play a small part in your cam selection. At this time is sounds like the solid roller will build the best power, but it appears your intake is not the best choice and I think a dominator is not out of the question. Also, you mentioned spraying it. There are many quality nitros grinds, from Crane, or Comp, that show major gains in torq and h.p. while on the gas. Food for thought, Good luck, Im sure its gonna haul the mail just fine!!!
[Modified by tiresmokin75-427, 10:36 PM 7/23/2002]
[Modified by tiresmokin75-427, 10:36 PM 7/23/2002]
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: St. Petersburg FL
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
tiresmokin75-427
The compressio ratio is 10.7. The reason for the Air Gap performer is because of the auto transmission and to keep the torque band a little lower,,I still want to cruise this Corvette on week-ends! The Air Gap has proven on a bunch of dyno's I read about, with 400 CI+ small blocks and good heads to only give up about 7-10 HP to about 6500 RPM while still giving better torque numbers at lower RPM's as compared to the Victor Jr. As long as I want to keep the peak HP at 6500 or lower, it seems to be the better of the 2. But that's personal choice, and if I don't go with a fogger NOS system and stay with a plate, the change of manifolds is very easy and not too costly!!!! Thats why I went to the carb,,a lot easier and cheaper to experiment with than the FI system!!! The NOS will only be used at the drags, so I stayed away from the Speciality cams, I also couldn't find a lot of dyno numbers with them,,so I stayed with what I know best. I haven't had a solid cam for about 25 years so I was lookin for some updated opinions!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Re: Down to the cam choice! (gkull)
That looks much better. Cam #2 is near what i have 240/248 .635/.644. With my nearly 50 less cubes I can put it in lockup fourth at less than 2000 rpm and just motor away.
Why i ask what you were doing is because our auto-x's are 18 turn 1 miles and I'm forced to drive around in second gear only (4.11) With high stalls like yours and mine on the gas at low speed causes instant wheel spin. So it's a whole new experience trying to drive without going to WOT to go faster.
Your machine should be a real killer. I just took off my 825 race demon and put on my 750 speed demon. The problem with your airgap manifold is it will be smaller ports than your heads. That's why i run a Weiand single. it's very streetable. the 7531 is rated at up to 7200 rpm. i opted for the taller version and also use a 1/2 inch wood thermal spacer. My weiand was rated to 7800 and it was very little time to port match to the slightly larger than Felpro 1206 intake gasket size.
Why i ask what you were doing is because our auto-x's are 18 turn 1 miles and I'm forced to drive around in second gear only (4.11) With high stalls like yours and mine on the gas at low speed causes instant wheel spin. So it's a whole new experience trying to drive without going to WOT to go faster.
Your machine should be a real killer. I just took off my 825 race demon and put on my 750 speed demon. The problem with your airgap manifold is it will be smaller ports than your heads. That's why i run a Weiand single. it's very streetable. the 7531 is rated at up to 7200 rpm. i opted for the taller version and also use a 1/2 inch wood thermal spacer. My weiand was rated to 7800 and it was very little time to port match to the slightly larger than Felpro 1206 intake gasket size.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,418
Likes: 1
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
Quote:
"I haven't had a solid cam for about 25 years so I was lookin for some updated opinions!"
Engle Cams has a entire new line called the EP series. If interested you could call them,,this way you will make more vacuum and can RPM higher over a HR cam
The key to success when using a open plenum manifold on the street is to use a carb with Annular Discharge Nozzles. They are more sensitive and react to the weaker signal. I think you would be surprised how a Victor JR will act on the street if you have the hood clearance,,the Weiand 7530 seems a good match for your heads and is not as tall as the RPM manifold
"I haven't had a solid cam for about 25 years so I was lookin for some updated opinions!"
Engle Cams has a entire new line called the EP series. If interested you could call them,,this way you will make more vacuum and can RPM higher over a HR cam
The key to success when using a open plenum manifold on the street is to use a carb with Annular Discharge Nozzles. They are more sensitive and react to the weaker signal. I think you would be surprised how a Victor JR will act on the street if you have the hood clearance,,the Weiand 7530 seems a good match for your heads and is not as tall as the RPM manifold
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 0
From: St. Petersburg FL
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
I got a great big hole in my hood right now,,so clearance isn't a problem,,,after reading HOT ROD's test report on stree tunnel rams and torque at lower rpm's,,I even contemplated a Weiand Street with 2 600 Holleys,,,HP should stay the same,,,,but I do like the Pro-Street look!!!! Just harder to set up and more expensive to spray!!!!!
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 7
From: Orlando Florida
Re: Down to the cam choice! (autoxer)
autoxer, I guess im struggling some with your build-up because your very close to building high 10 second potential. I guess what makes me agree with you more, is because of your final compression ratio. At 10.7 your airgap and smaller cam will most certainly make great power and with a small shot it will fly. Why run the higher seat pressure if the gains won't justify the where and tear. If your final was around 12-13 to one, I would say, "Big-Roller Victor-Dominator-Fogger". I will still bet money she'll go somewhere in the high 11's all motor.
take care,
take care,
