Oil pan selection
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Oil pan selection
I'm building a 383 and using a high volume, high pressure oil pump. I'm looking at 3 different Moroso oil pans.
20180
6 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
$119
20190
7 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
$114
20191
7 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
Built in wiper
Uni-directional windage tray screen
$173
How much of a difference will the last one give me? What do you guys use?
Thanks,
Jerry
20180
6 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
$119
20190
7 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
$114
20191
7 quarts plus filter
8 1/4" deep
Swinging trap door
Built in wiper
Uni-directional windage tray screen
$173
How much of a difference will the last one give me? What do you guys use?
Thanks,
Jerry
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 12
From: Salt Lake City UT
Re: Oil pan selection (jerryjfunk)
Jerry,
I would think about using a high volume, high pressure pump for a small block. Check with other forum members but I believe that you will not have a good experience ( i.e. washed bearings etc.) that that much presssure in a small block application. In most applications a regular pressure or high volume only pump is more than adequate in a small block.
As far as pan that would depend on application. If it is a drag race vehicle then keeping the oil in the pan would be critical and windage trays, scrapers etc. would be beneficial. If you are planning on some autocrossing etc. you may want to think about a 7inch depth kickout pan for ground clearance.
Your usuage of the vehicle is critical in the decision of which pan to use.
Good luck with your Vette
I would think about using a high volume, high pressure pump for a small block. Check with other forum members but I believe that you will not have a good experience ( i.e. washed bearings etc.) that that much presssure in a small block application. In most applications a regular pressure or high volume only pump is more than adequate in a small block.
As far as pan that would depend on application. If it is a drag race vehicle then keeping the oil in the pan would be critical and windage trays, scrapers etc. would be beneficial. If you are planning on some autocrossing etc. you may want to think about a 7inch depth kickout pan for ground clearance.
Your usuage of the vehicle is critical in the decision of which pan to use.
Good luck with your Vette
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Re: Oil pan selection (J.R.)
Well, it's going to be a street car, but will see the strip every other weekend, and I'd also like to do some road racing. I guess the 3rd pan might be the best idea. How deep is the stock pan?
Thanks,
Jerry
By the way, that's the coolest paint I've ever seen on a C4. :cool:
[Modified by jerryjfunk, 8:39 PM 8/24/2002]
Thanks,
Jerry
By the way, that's the coolest paint I've ever seen on a C4. :cool:
[Modified by jerryjfunk, 8:39 PM 8/24/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,215
Likes: 6
From: Tampa Florida
Re: Oil pan selection (jerryjfunk)
I have the 20191 on my 406 Nova and it works just fine. Did it gain me some HP...don't know, but it doesn't leak and :)
I do know it was much easier and cheaper than fitting a custom crank scraper and windage tray...although the pans are further from the rotating assembly so not as effective. I would buy it again...
:)
I do know it was much easier and cheaper than fitting a custom crank scraper and windage tray...although the pans are further from the rotating assembly so not as effective. I would buy it again...
:)
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,193
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh PA
Re: Oil pan selection (No Go)
I just talked to a very well-knows engine builder around here, and he told me that I don't need anything more than a stock pan. Why has everyone told me that a high volume pump will dry the pan?
I was thinking about this, and it doesn't make sense. Where exactly would 6 quarts of oil go? There can't be more than a quart of oil circulating in the engine at any given time, right?
I was thinking about this, and it doesn't make sense. Where exactly would 6 quarts of oil go? There can't be more than a quart of oil circulating in the engine at any given time, right?
Racer
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 428
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Tx
Re: Oil pan selection (jerryjfunk)
Lots of opinions on oil pans. Like the others have said, depends on application.
One thing you should know: The stock LT-1/4 is capable on street tires of over 0.9G lateral acceleration. In a sustained heavy corner (such as a freeway cloverleaf taken for fun at high speed), if the engine is turning high rpm it is very possible to uncover the oil pickup and lose oil pressure. BAD!
A stock engine with roller lifters can put 2 or even 3 quarts of oil in the cylinder heads and lifter galley waiting to drain back at sustained high RPM. That's why racers enlarge drain holes, restrict pushrod flow, etc. Five seconds of inadequate oil pressure at 5000 RPM kills bearings.
Make sure that the pan/ pickup/ windage tray you choose keeps the pickup covered under all possible circumstances of your driving.
One thing you should know: The stock LT-1/4 is capable on street tires of over 0.9G lateral acceleration. In a sustained heavy corner (such as a freeway cloverleaf taken for fun at high speed), if the engine is turning high rpm it is very possible to uncover the oil pickup and lose oil pressure. BAD!
A stock engine with roller lifters can put 2 or even 3 quarts of oil in the cylinder heads and lifter galley waiting to drain back at sustained high RPM. That's why racers enlarge drain holes, restrict pushrod flow, etc. Five seconds of inadequate oil pressure at 5000 RPM kills bearings.
Make sure that the pan/ pickup/ windage tray you choose keeps the pickup covered under all possible circumstances of your driving.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 1
Re: Oil pan selection (jerryjfunk)
On my 71 the stock pan depth is 6.5 inches and so I think 8 or more inches is way to deep. My stock pans had some nice dents in it. I would hate to have a pan torn open while driving. You could kiss that motor goodbye in about 2 seconds.
I am currently using an old corvette road racing pan with a depth of 6.5 inches. I will probably be selling it in the next few months as I will be building a new motor using a new generation block and so will have to buy a Canton road racing pan (7 inch depth). I'll put it in the for sale section when I am ready. It holds 6 quarts, has five trap doors, and has bungs for a temp sensor.
As for the oil pump, there is really no need for hi pressure or volume unless you are running an external cooler. And even then a %10 over stock is all you need. Talk to some engine shops. They will probably tell you the same thing. Plus, it takes horsepower to run a higher press/vol and is harder on the distributer gear, and there is a better chance of blowing out gaskets and seals. There is really no valid reason for a hi pressure/volume pump on a motor that is in good condition, and certainly not on a new motor.
Chris
I am currently using an old corvette road racing pan with a depth of 6.5 inches. I will probably be selling it in the next few months as I will be building a new motor using a new generation block and so will have to buy a Canton road racing pan (7 inch depth). I'll put it in the for sale section when I am ready. It holds 6 quarts, has five trap doors, and has bungs for a temp sensor.
As for the oil pump, there is really no need for hi pressure or volume unless you are running an external cooler. And even then a %10 over stock is all you need. Talk to some engine shops. They will probably tell you the same thing. Plus, it takes horsepower to run a higher press/vol and is harder on the distributer gear, and there is a better chance of blowing out gaskets and seals. There is really no valid reason for a hi pressure/volume pump on a motor that is in good condition, and certainly not on a new motor.
Chris
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,215
Likes: 6
From: Tampa Florida
Re: Oil pan selection (tkrussell)
I would have to agree that oil is flying all over inside that engine.
One quart as windage around the crank.
One to two quarts in the oil passages/bearings/lifters
One quart draining normally or two at hi rpm
Leaves 1-3 quarts in the sump...and if you are on the brakes in a corner...there might not be much left for that pickup to suck up :(
The engine builder is also right for majority of people-me included:) I put one on my Nova because I needed an new pan and I like the Moroso unit :D
And besides even a moment without oil pressure would toast a bearing-I would think. Smokey Yunick used to preach dry sumps even with the high cost because "one smoked engine due to oil starvation just paid for a dry sump twice" or something like that...:)
One quart as windage around the crank.
One to two quarts in the oil passages/bearings/lifters
One quart draining normally or two at hi rpm
Leaves 1-3 quarts in the sump...and if you are on the brakes in a corner...there might not be much left for that pickup to suck up :(
The engine builder is also right for majority of people-me included:) I put one on my Nova because I needed an new pan and I like the Moroso unit :D
And besides even a moment without oil pressure would toast a bearing-I would think. Smokey Yunick used to preach dry sumps even with the high cost because "one smoked engine due to oil starvation just paid for a dry sump twice" or something like that...:)