Hi all,

I'm new to the forums here, but I've been a big fan of American muscle since I first went to the dragstrip as a kid and heard that V8 thunder :chevy:

Basically, I want to build a nice V8 and hit the strip myself! I have $5000 to spend on the engine, and I'm starting from scratch. I don't even have a block. I want as much power as I can get in a reasonably reliable package - I don't mind doing engine rebuilds to refresh the bearings or whatever every 10,000 miles if I really have to, but I don't want to be throwing rods and melting pistons every other week cos I just don't have the money to keep cash flowing into the car at that rate.

I've done engine work before, but my previous experience has been on Japanese cars (Toyota Supra to be exact) with an I6 engine, fuel injection, ECU's, DOHC and turbos. When it comes to deck heights, carb selection, roller bearing camshafts etc I don't know a lot : so I'll probably have to ask you to explain some stuff!

Like I said, I don't have any parts at all at the moment, so I'm totally open to any suggestions. A small block would make engine packaging easier, but if a big block has major advantages at this level I'm sure I could make it fit. I'd prefer to stay away from fuel injection and loads of electronics if possible, purely because I've just finished a big project on an EFI engine and I'd like to do something different and learn about carbs! I've always had a thing about superchargers, but looking around on the web I think they could be out of my budget.

I'm thinking about a small block with 4 bolt mains (I can pick up a s/h shortblock over here for about $600), maybe bore and stroke it to 400ci, build it nice and strong so I have the option of using a nitrous system, a hot cam, decent heads, and an appropriate carb setup. I can run it on pretty high octane gas (Premium, with 10% toluene added as an octane booster) so I should be able to wind the compression up a bit, maybe 12:1 or 13:1? How does that all sound?

Here in the UK I don't have to worry about smog or anything, it can be almost as filthy as I want :) Plus my uncle owns a testing station so even if our lax testing picks up on anything he can make it pass for me. :lol: The car will be driven to and from the strip, and for the odd weekend blast, so I don't want it to be a total animal to drive, but it's not going to have to get me to work in the morning rush hour or anything.

I look forward to hearing your suggestions and recommendations with interest!


Adam

 

This gonna be put into what car? You gonna drive it on the street alot?

Camshaft and head selection depends on what HP you think you want, but you can easily put a monster together with that money, especially if you can do the assembly yourself.

 

I haven't decided what car it's going in yet, ideally I'd like a C3 Corvette but it's gonna be hard to find one at a reasonable price - over here they're not very common and most examples are mint, fully restored ones which gets expensive! I have a few candidates which you probably won't even have heard of (Manta GTE, Ford Capri - the 70's european version, maybe even an 88-93 Supra). I guess the Manta and Capri weigh about 2000lbs each, plus they'd be mostly stripped and caged. I have a lead on a Ford 9" axle (which will fit any of the above without too much drama), not sure about gearbox yet but I haven't looked into it.

Like I said, I'm not gonna drive it on the street much, a weekend toy rather than a daily driver, focusing more on dragstrip use.

As for power, I WANT about 1000bhp :) I'm not sure what I can reasonably expect for $5k though - 500bhp maybe? Oh, and I am planning on doing most, probably all of the assembly myself - learning by doing and all that. Like I said, I've done a fair bit of engine work before, but I know nothing about domestic V8's, and not a whole lot more about N/A engines in general. I know how to make power by turning the boost up and squirting the fuel in, but choosing heads, cams, carbs - I don't know where to start really.

I realise I'm asking a lot of questions here, but although there's a lot of info on the web I don't really know where to start learning. Is there a "Beginners Guide to Chev V8's" out there somewhere I can look at?

 

With US prices, and assuming you need everything for the engine (carb and ignition add a good chunk to the costs, and EFI is well outside your budget), $5000 will probably get you into a nice 350 to maybe 400 HP (new) small block or probably a similar power range used big block. I've found it is cheapest to get the motor as complete as possible, as the big shops prices for a completed motor are usually just about the same as if I get all the pieces and machine work done and assembling it myself.

-Greg

 

If you are going for the most bang for the buck, but have a $5000 limit, I think you will end up with a small block as parts are cheaper. If this is for drag strip use, the best way to boost your power for quite cheap is nitrous injection. You have to build the motor for it (forged parts, ingnition controls, etc.), but you can add 150HP for a few hundred dollars. You can also blow the motor in an instant if you screw up...

If you can get parts used, and do all the work yourself, I think you might be able to hit 500HP within your budget. You could hit it while using cast pistons and crank, but I doubt it would last long. I think you should go about pricing an all forged rotating assembly and a roller cam as your base. Then look at the block, heads, intake, carb, etc. and see where your deals can come from...

 

That sounds good. I guess if I have a good strong bottom end, then I can add more horsepower in future (better heads, nitrous, whatever) when I have some more money to spend, without worrying about throwing a rod or anything .. .

Would it be a good idea to go for a stroker kit? If I'm buying a new rotating assembly anyway, I can't see as it will cost much more to have a longer throw crank and some bigger pistons. And the more displacement, the better, right? :) Does going for a 400ci kit have any downsides or weak points?

 

Greg,

I thought about going for a crate engine, as the prices do seem pretty competetive, and you should be buying a package of parts which will work well together.

The thing is, I enjoy working on cars just as much as I enjoy driving them! The appeal of this project for me isn't just that I'll have a nice car at the end of it, it's all the evenings I'll spend in the garage spannering away at it. It's my hobby, and I don't want to pay someone else to do it for me :)

Oh, and if I buy a crate engine in the US I'll have to pay some horrific amount to get it shipped to the UK :( If I buy a used engine over here and rebuild it, I only have to ship parts over.

 

The decision to stroke (or destroke) will really depend on your goals for the engine and car. Will this be drag racing, autocross, road racing, etc.? Auto or manual transmission? light or heavy car? Gearing?

If you stroke the motor, you will create larger stresses on the crank, rods, and block as the revs grow. In general, the same bottom end will take more RPM with a shorter stroke. Also, RPM builds horsepower so building for high RPM will allow you to build for a high horsepower motor.

But, torque is what accelerates the car, and you will sacrific bottom end torque with a motor built for top end power. For a race car that will spend all it's time between 5,000 and 8,000 RPM, this is not a problem. A stroker motor can give you amazing bottom end torque which will be a great seat of the pants feel of acceleration, but you will not be able to rev as high.

I can do 0-60 in first gear, but with a stroker I would have to shift at maybe 50 mph. So, tell us a bit more about how you plan to use the motor and maybe this will help the design move. Also, you can always see if you can find a good used 400 small block to start from. You get a bigger bore and more cubes for the same stroke.

 

I'm sure shipping and import duties (???) could be a big cost to you. Might take a close look though as rebuilding a used engine you may end up shipping over a complete engine minus the block in parts anyway, and usually multiple pieces cost more to ship (for the same weight) than a single box.

Just curious, what are the import duties like? ... and I love the term spannering, don't hear that one around here :)

-Greg

 

Import duties are generally 27.5% of the stated value of the goods you're bringing in. So if I buy a $1000 dollar wossname, by the time I have it in my hands, I will have had to pay $1300 or so for it. HOWEVER, for the most part, UK customs don't know their wossnames from their doohickeys, so previously I have bought a $1000 wossname, asked the vendor to describe it as a $100 doohickey, paid $30 to Customs and Excise and saved myself $270 of import duties. :cheers: Apologies to Her Majestys Government, but I need the money more than they do!

Theres a good article on http://www.chevyhi-performance.com about crate engines that's got me thinking . . . . I haven't looked into shipping costs yet, but I will do. How reputable are the dyno numbers from the people who sell complete engines? What's to stop them making up the figures just to get a sale?

 

To answer your questions, it'll be a light car, around 2000lbs all up (I think I've done my metric to imperial conversion right!). Not sure about the gearing yet, but I'm going for a Ford 9" rear end so I guess different final drives are available to let me pick what I want. Almost certainly an auto, how does a TH350 or TH400 sound? Those seem to be popular but I don't know much about them. Basically I want to be able to drive the car to the dragstrip, and show it off to my mates at the weekend. No long road trips, town driving, or traffic infested commuting required.

I would have thought a motor with massive torque would be best on the dragstrip, hence why a domestic V8 is a better bet for the strip than a turboed 3.0l six with big top end power but little going on below 5000rpm (as found in highly tuned Supras, Skylines etc). As you say, torque is what accelerates the car!

It seems I need to go back to school regarding engine blocks as well. I was under the impression that a 350 inch block would simply be bored out to increase the displacement (as well as stroking it) - is a 400 inch block radically different?

 

If you want the best bang for the buck, I wouldn't hesitate and get a crate engine. Why? Cause it costs less than building ur own and you even get a garantee. Where? Speedomotive has some great prices.

I took a quick look and you could afford a 500hp sbc with your budget. Here's the ling:

http://www.speedomotive.com/500H.P.%...N%20ENGINE.HTM

 

that sux that you need to get a car from the uk. just here in town there is a beater c3 that could be fixed nicely that is for sale.

 

The answer is a Big Block. Take a look at some of these prices

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1867373249
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1866116668
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1867214783
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1866301598
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1866635245
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1866381137

Or, how about Alum heads & a Crower crank? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1866516606

 

Now you need a tranny to support all that power
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=1867283399