The block I have is a 509 casting with 2-bolt mains.

Is this (434) taking this block too far?

The tranny is the 1985 4+3,,,, is it capable of taking a 434 stroker HP/TQ, any thoughts?

BTW, the cost for the 420 stroker kit is the same as the 434 kit


[Modified by ld85, 10:17 AM 11/24/2002]

 

Just the big one: $$$$$$$$$$$. For a guy who was trying to decide between a 383 and a 406, only a week or so ago, and leery of the 406, you sure have done an about face. The 434 doesn't take the BLOCK any further than the 406 does. They are both a .030 overbore. Yes, the block will likely have to be notched for rod clearence, but that SHOULDN'T be a big deal. The OTHER clearence that will have to be attended to is between the rod and the cam. THAT is likely to be a bigger deal. Stroker rods and a reduced base circle cam come to mind. We all want the 'ultimate" but I wonder if you aren't carrying this a bit to the extreme? For your previously outlined goals the 2 bolt block should be fine, but if you go overboard on the build up, you'll need the additional expense of converting the block to 4 bolts. From what I've read in your earlier posts, build a nice mid range torque 406. You will be light years ahead of where you were and still ahead of where you had planned on going. And you'll still have some cash left for gasoline.

The life of the trans will depend largely on how wild you build the engine and, more, on how insanely you drive it. Good luck.

RACE ON!!!

 

Well my hesitance was largely due to money. But now I have that worked out. When I started out I really did not want to get that deep into it but since I picked up the 400SB and 400 crank cheap my focus has changed.

You can add up the motor features and components many many different ways. The 406 would and will be fine but I notice that you dont see many 434's around mostly 406, 410, 420's

The rotating assembly for the 420 and the 434 cost the same $$$ so I wondered why there were no more 434's around. Was there a down side.

I will read more abut this and see what is written about this motor combo.

At this time I am sitting on @ $3500 cash and an unmachined 400.std crank and block. This seems to be ample funds for the 406 with me doign the build up but,,,, being curious is just my nature.

 

Think about it. As you investigate, it will become more apparent.

Congratulatons on your budget. Most of these projects ending up costing about double, what you anticipate, going in. $3500.00 isn't excessive for a 406. It is a good idea to consider all the options. You are to be commended for that. Just don't find youself 80% into the project, with no means to finish it. Just a word to the wise.

Rather than repeat myself, see my response to your identical post on the C4 Tech thread.

RACE ON!!!

 

The reason 434s end up costing a lot is partially because the crank and pistons cost more, but also I think largely because the now-I-have-the-best-this-so-I-need-the-best-that attitude that plagues hotrodders and our bank accounts. When you get into large cube small blocks, you also need a top end which breaths well to help take advantage of the cubes, that can also get costly. But in cost of building the short block, the only difference being the stroke (not quality of parts), then you are getting another 28 cubes and more potential power relatively cheaply. Not to mention the 434 small block coolness factor.

If you have the cash, you can go for a 434 and spend modestly on the top end. Then when you get more cash in the future, it's easy to swap out heads, cam, intake etc. If you build a 406, then you are more limited in the future.

I don't know about the 4+3, but trans life will also depend on driving style, and how well you're hooking up. Have you worked out any numbers in stone to see the exact cost difference between the 406 and the 434?

Rob

 

Your right, I have the 400 std crank & block and will only buy pistons and rods. Then I can afford to buy AFR heads (@$1250) for the 406.

The rotating package for the 420 is $1500 and the 434 rotating package is $1800. I would have my stock heads ported and much larger valves in to flow as much as possible. My #624 iron heads can allow for Intake valves up to 2.08 if necessary. They can flow up to 250CFM at .500 lift. The #624 is a head that the porting guys know well and say the 624 has a predictable outcome. But the trade of is more cubes with a lesser quality of cylinder head.

All the rest of the components are equal cost with a new cam, dampener etc be required.

The intake will be a Stealth Ram, which flows very well up to near 300CFM, and it’s a lot cheaper ($500 for the base and fuel rails) than other intakes. I would make my own plenum to fit under the C4 hood.

I am sort of backing away from the 420-434 due to the possibility of screwing up the 4+3 and then the possibly rear end. Also, the max lift I will likely see in a moderate cam is @ .500 or less so I would never be able to take advantage of the extra higher RPM range I could get without taking my flow to a higher lift which would max out at 275-CFM @ .600 lift.

My original goal was to have a streetable car that would get into the 12's comfortably and the 406 will do this easily. I did not intend to build a drag car or the like.

The good part is that tall of this investigating of motor combos has made me more knowledge with regard to the small blocks.

Thanks to all of you guys for putting up with all of my questions.
:seeya

 

I'm sure an AFR headed 406 will be a ton of fun! I had a AFR 195 388 which was a blast, but there were a number of things I would have done differently if I had another chance to build it (like go with a 406!). With a good cam that motor could easily make 500 hp, Car Craft put together a AFR 195 383 which made 530 hp. At that power level, you will have to address your transmission and rear end eventually I imagine, especially if you put some sticky tires on it.

I went down this same road a couple years ago with my '76 where my goals were to maintain my stock rear end and gearing, stock cooling system, and have a reliable fun 12 second cruiser that got decent gas mileage. So I used a relatively mild hydraulic roller in my 388 (224/230@.050). It pulled to 6500 ish and was a lot of fun to drive, but eventually my rear end started making noises, so I replaced it with a beefed up 4.11 unit. I now have a 434 I'm getting ready to drop in (pending my trans rebuild/upgrade), and I've found I'm replacing everything I was hoping to keep originally. New cooling system, rear suspension, axles, trans, etc - soon outer axles, seats, roll cage. I think that's what happens to a lot of hot rodders - they slowly turn their car into a race car. Had I just gone extreme right away, I would have saved a lot of money and time by not buying parts twice or three times. I guess what I'm trying to say is think REAL carefully and hard what your goals are with this car, and take the most direct route there, as that will save you time and money in the long run. If you have another car, and this is just a fun weekend cruiser, and chances are you're going to end up replacing your trans and rear end anyways, well, plan accordingly.

Rob

 

Id85, I too just picked up a 400 block and right away started thinking of the possibilties ;) . I originally wanted a 420/427 sbc thinking that all tyhat torque down low would be great fun on the street and at the track :yesnod: .

I have a friend that has riden in my car along with watched me race it. He believes that with my drivetrain set-up the way it is, I won't be able to use that kind of torque because of traction problems. My current engine is a 400+hp 355. With the 1st gear of the TKO & the 3.90 gears in the rear, I can't hold 1st gear very long without hitting 6000rpms.

So what I have decided to do is go the destroke route (at least till I buy the crank ;) ). I'm going to build something along the lines of the Nascar engine (large bore w/ short stroke). This will allow me to hold my gears longer at the strip or shift less at autox by being able to not worry about where my rpms are as much. If you don't have DD2000, that my be a wise investment before getting to far into your next engine. With DD2000 it allows you to see the potential of different bores, strokes, cams, compression,etc. .

I have never riden in a 420+ sbc car, but I'm sure they are a blast :yesnod: . Depending on your goals and drivetrain in your vette, there is some nice software out there to help you get to those goals.

PS: while I was at the Corvette Museum, they had a ZR2 which is a BBC C4 :cool: !

 

And to go along with the AFR head deal...

Chevy Rumble just had an article on a cast crank 383 with hydro roller and 195 AFR heads. Easy 538 HP again. Then added a Vortech Supercharger for a carburetor...get this 762 HP at 7 pounds of boost! With a cast crank...

Now even the article stated that the engine was primarily non supercharged so thought the cast crank would be sufficient for the one dyno test session with a blower, but 762 HP! Wow. Also the test was run on race gas for the blower...

Cylinder heads is where you power is...short block just maintains it many have touted.

 

ID 85 Sounds like you have never drove a 406. With the Badyear tires mine would spin in fourth gear went to bigger sticky tire corkscrewed two driveshafts last summer and that was not power shifting in fact I can't power shift. The 406 will wind higher than the stroker without sending the pistons into warp speed. A good set of heads cam aline bore and deck the block balance job good rods crank and pistons will run more than $ 3500
The 350 is a whimp compared to a 406 try it you won't be sorry unless you get tired of replacing driveline parts. 406===


:cool:

 

No I have not diven a 406, but did own a 400CI 67 GTO, 67 442 and a GTX 440 but that was a long time ago!

I know $3500 will not stop the bleeding completly but the MASTER-C will help with the balance. Money will not be the down fall of this motor for sure. I am just thankfull I dont have to charge the whole amount of the build! Just over and above the $3500.

[QUOTE]ID 85 Sounds like you have never drove a 406. With the Badyear tires mine would spin in fourth gear went to bigger sticky tire corkscrewed two driveshafts last summer and that was not power shifting in fact I can't power shift. The 406 will wind higher than the stroker without sending the pistons into warp speed. 406===

Also Blackbart, I checked out your site and can say that my motor will be no where near the monster you have built and your motor,,, I might say,,, must have cost a small fortune!! It's incredible. :cheers:

We will have to hook up some time, Ol'RJ has a mean 406 he has built and he's over around New Castle,IN. I could swing up your way in the summer en route to the Dyno in Fort Wayne.




[Modified by ld85, 2:39 AM 11/26/2002]

 

well actually I'm in NewCastle (henry county).
I'm sure you'd be happy with a good running 406ci.

BTW, I'll be pulling the trannie out of mine soon, so if you want a test drive better let me know quick. otherwise it's going to be next spring (you'll be done by then).


[Modified by ol,RJ, 1:10 AM 11/26/2002]

 

my 406 keeps up with trafic :cheers: