69 N.O.X. RATT

I have the motor torn down for the upgrades and want to be sure I check the lifters correctly before they go back in the motor. Other than the obviuos loose wheel, what I am looking for. I kept a close eye on the lash and the lifters were never more than a couple of thousanths out when I adjusted them.

Do the lifters need to go back into the same hole they came out of.

Monty

Loose or noisy wheels are the main thing to look at. Also check the roller for pitting or galling. The roller should rotate smoothly without any rough spots or noise. Check to ensure the oil ports are clear, there's no damage to the lifter body, etc.

Unlike a tappet lifter, it doesn't matter which lifter bore the lifter goes back into, assuming they are not offset of course.

69 N.O.X. RATT

I think it might be time to replace them. There is slight pitting and galling on several of wheels. I was very suprised to be able to push the steel dowl that holds the wheel in the body out with only finger pressure on about 12 of the 16.

The wheels are all a little loose, although none more than the others.

These are Comp Endurex lifters with approx 4,000 miles on them.

ED DINAPOLI

I just went througt this process and could find almost no ware. These are Crane vertical bar solid lifers with 10,000 miles. I dont think it matters if you dont return them to their original bore, but I did.
Ed

427Hotrod

Shafts come out?? Definitely sounds like replacement time and you're lucky! Don't waste time buying Lottery tickets because you've already used up all your luck!

When I spoke with Comp about the Endurex lifters, I was less than impressed. They told me that one of the ways they "improved" them was to install more needle rollers. But to do that required the shaft to be made smaller in diameter. So they told me they would never live long in a serious application. They were made for very mild street rollers.

Plus, while their other rollers are rebuildable for about 1/2 price (I've had them do it) the Endurex ones are considered "throwaways". You would think for the price you would get a little more.

You might check with Crane and Crower. I understand both have come out recently with a much stronger version for the street, but I don't know the details. I also know Crane sometimes runs specials where you trade in anyone else's lifters and you get a big discount. Worth checking into.


JIM

69 N.O.X. RATT

In my close circle of hot rod buddies I know of three motors that have had catasrophic failures due to these lifters. I just emailed Comp and asked them to replace these lifters with thier standard street roller, at no cost. I told them of my buddies problems. Comp replaced thier lifters for free, of course my friends had a bigger bill to worry about.

If Comp will not replace them I will check into your ideas Jim.

I was really suprised to see the shafts basically fall out of most of them. Because it happened to most of them I thought it must be O.K. Glad I checked em out, could have been exspensive.


[Modified by 69 N.O.X. RATT, 10:32 PM 1/7/2003]

gkull

I have nearly 20,000 miles on my crane pro's with over .600 lift. They are all going in the dumpster. But they look nice. Nice enough that I had a friend ask me if he could have them. I almost said yes and then I thought, "their days are numbered and I trashed a block with lifter failure."

69 N.O.X. RATT

GKull:

I have heard Crane will sell you a new set of their lifters for half price if you are replacing a set of theirs.

wallyknoch

After reading all the posts for roller lifters and rocker arms, it seems only a few people are in agreement with me on this subject. Unless you have a ***** out racer "you don`t need them" the maintance on them is horrible as to the HP benifits you gain. Street engines with fenders involved and expensive paint jobs are not the right place for these items. I was reading some of the stories and :lol: because none of the 427 L88`s or 454 LS7 engines producing well over 500 HP and RPM`s at over 7000 do not use them, I cannot see why anyone would even consider them for the street. Some even require fancy inner spring components to keep the lifters on the cam to prevent bounce. Just more junk to fail and increase valve train weight. :thumbs: :cheers:

MotorHead

I was set to buy a solid roller for my new engine buildup but after reading this thread and hearing other horror stories I am beginning to think it is a bad idea.

Is it possible these failures are caused by the human factor ( setting lash incorrectly etc. ) and not the result of bad quality, design from the manufacturer ?

clem zahrobsky

most after market roller lifter manufactures recommend that they be rebuilt every 150 hours. :chevy

69 N.O.X. RATT

Wallynoch:

I agree that solid rollers do not belong in the majority of street engines, however disagree regarding the hp potential of solid rollers, they simply make way more power (all other things things equal ie, duration #'s), as for L-88's solid roller technology was not availible then, otherwise they would have probably been used. On a note regarding HP potentail Chuck Harmon has a replica L-88 motor that he is replacing with a solid roller cam. DD2000 predicts 50 more HP on top and far better low end TQ. As far as maintanance they are no more than a solid flat tappet.

You are wrong about valve trane weight, solid rollers are lighter than hydraulic rollers, or hydraulic flat tapets. I suspect they are lighter than solid flat tappets. One of the primary reasons to use a solid roller is thier ability to rev far higher than a hydraulic lifter.

Motorhead: I am 99.99% sure the lifter failure is due to the design of this particular lifter. Comp tried something that did not work. I am very **** about keeping an eye on lash and actually document every lash adjustment. I agree with Walynoch about running these cams on the street. I would probably not want a solid roler in a motor that did not need to spin past 6500 rpms. My motor probably does not need a solid roller, I could get by with a hydraulic roller. The solids are only really needed in street motor when you are going to spin the thing or if you have a big motor, for example the guys running the 540's.

wallyknoch

I don`t use hydraulic lifters, all solids. And I did have a roller cam in an L88. Rollers were around for a long time. I even used some in my fuel engines. Having used both, I prefer to use a solid lifter. Friction from needle bearing rockers were less, But I don`t believe they helped me go any faster. Most roller lifters have a locking device between them to keep them on track and they do weigh more than a solid. Some rollers have a rev kit with springs in the valley which is just more junk to break. A racing engine is always apart between rounds and everything is checked at that time and worrying about lifters is not on my mind. We put them back together and just dump the nitro in and go. See what I mean! :thumbs:


[Modified by wallyknoch, 3:24 PM 1/8/2003]

81vette

I talked to a Crane rep. about their Pro mech. roller lifters, and he said that high spring pressures and excessive idling are the main killers of roller lifters. He said I should get a minimum of 20,000 miles out of these rollers on the street with my 240/248 @.050 and .580/.600 lift cam using a spring with 185 lbs. of seat pressure. The cam I have has an aggressive ramp rate, and is similar to the one George has in his car with 20,000 miles on the lifters. The Crane rep. also said that on the smaller street mech. rollers with less aggressive ramps and lighter springs that 100,000 miles was not uncommon. He also indicated that they have a program where you can return your lifters for new ones at a reduced price. Since I put less than 5000 miles a year on my car, having to change out the lifters every 4 years isn't that big a deal.

mark


[Modified by 81vette, 4:28 PM 1/8/2003]

gkull

I guess that I need to call Crane and see what kind of deal they will give me on mine. When I'm out going down the road at high speed i just start imagining every little noise is some kind of massive failure. I've torn up enough parts over the years!:)

81vette

George,

Let us know what the specifics are on the trade in allowance. I think crane said they send you new ones not rebuilt.

mark


[Modified by 81vette, 3:10 PM 1/10/2003]

VetteLS6

Interesting topic here....Solids vs Rollers?? My two cents worth, for the power road monster cars out there have the solid rollers are the way to go,,,agressive ramps and big lift numbers are there for the taking yet it surely does come at the price....most of the big numbers you see are so much more than just a drop in "Cam Package" as this thread seems to be driving towards. I see that no one mentioned Titanium valves in this Lift/Duration Equation...hmmmm makes me think. I would hope that to get the advantage of a high revving "Solid Roller Cams" the rest has to be in place and costs are too high for most deal with....Did we say $85+/valve, not to add in the Rev Kit to keep it all where it needs to be. Dual or triple spings to hold the rockers on the capped stems with Titanium retainers. On a chevy motor what about a stud girdle, that was not mentioned either. For the kind of rpms I see being talked about freely in here why go with aluminum rockers? We should know they do make the much better Stainless Steel variety! All for the daily driver....get real the costs of doing this correctly can be better spent elsewhere on the car. I AGREE SOLID FLAT TAPPETS, good springs, steel 7-10*retainers, aluminum rockers and away you go.....easy 650 HP BBC and thats not even stroked. To begin to get the full potential of the Big Rollers it's BIG Bucks in heads, bottom and also middle. Go Wally Go Wally, that Cuda makes me think you taped my Vette running one day.
:cheers:
Larry

gkull

Mark - I called Crane cams today!:) Great news. You can do a credit card order from them. Just tell them that your returning your old and they send you the new H-bar spring type which are $350 something from Summit racing for $221 and then just return your in the same box.

I also ask about custom sleeved roller cams. $380 outright. But if i send mine back it's $238. He said they study the rollers to see how they performed and he wanted to know a bunch of specifics about what i was really doing.

Now I have the dilema of thinking up a new grind or do i really want to tear it down farther than just a lifter change :seeya

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Larry - Quote: I see that no one mentioned Titanium valves in this Lift/Duration Equation...hmmmm makes me think.

You just need to look at my home page and it has all of those parts that your talking about. titanium, rev kit, stud girdles, and steel roller rockers. 7600 rpm tested.





[Modified by gkull, 10:14 PM 1/13/2003]

81vette

Thanks for the info George. It would be interesting to know what Crane says about your lifters once they've inspected them. I'm wondering how many more miles you might have gotten out of them. Didn't you say that you were running 195 lbs. at the seat?


mark

gkull

With a spring tester it takes @195 pounds before they even start to move and the listed open was 540#. Then the rev kit is something like an extra 25-30# on the roller.

I never did run tighter lash numbers. The card called for .020 and they were set in that area maybe .022 or .024. I never really worried about that much. I got really neglectful of even checking them even every few thousand miles. Because they never really changed or one or two might be a few thousants off, The allens and stud girdle kept them pretty much right on.