Ceramic lifters?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
Ceramic lifters?
Hey guys...
On another discussion board that I frequent there is a discussion going about ceramic lifters! Yup... ceramic. Evidently they do not wear the camshaft, or the lifter bores. They were developed for diesel engines to remove another wear point, no longer an issue with flat tappet cams to go a million miles.
Heres a link to the ceramic lifters for VW engines: http://www.lnengineering.com/lifters.htm
A couple of good pictures on that site.
I have not found any available for a chevrolet engine, but I have read a couple racing rule books that say they arent allowed (Drag racing.)
Have any of yall fooled around with these? Any more links on the topic? Supposedly they dont wear, so you can swap out as many cams as you want without changing the lifters!
On another discussion board that I frequent there is a discussion going about ceramic lifters! Yup... ceramic. Evidently they do not wear the camshaft, or the lifter bores. They were developed for diesel engines to remove another wear point, no longer an issue with flat tappet cams to go a million miles.
Heres a link to the ceramic lifters for VW engines: http://www.lnengineering.com/lifters.htm
A couple of good pictures on that site.
I have not found any available for a chevrolet engine, but I have read a couple racing rule books that say they arent allowed (Drag racing.)
Have any of yall fooled around with these? Any more links on the topic? Supposedly they dont wear, so you can swap out as many cams as you want without changing the lifters!
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From: Corsicana, Tx
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Check out Schubeck Racing. He makes them in flat tappet and a couple of roller versions. Lots of Mopar and roundy pounder guys use them.
Joe Schubeck is the guy......
JIM
Joe Schubeck is the guy......
JIM
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: mesa,az
that stuff he has looks really intriguing, i might give it a try. i have had lifters come apart before in my old harleys and make quite a mess. it has really been in the back of my mind. has anyone had any first hand experiance with them. whats the 411 on Shubert racing?
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
This guy Jake uses them in all the aircooled VW engines he builds...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97564
He's got a pretty cool website as well, linked to it in that thread... besides that, no clue pan!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97564
He's got a pretty cool website as well, linked to it in that thread... besides that, no clue pan!
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Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Corsicana, Tx
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Cheaper alternative could be some of the flat tappet lifters with EDM drilled face (.020) hole to provide direct oiling to lobe/lifter contact area. Less than $100. Can't hurt....
If you are doing LOTS of cam testing on a dyno or even in car, or wanted to run ungodly square flat tappet lobes that won't live long (think Super Stocker stuff) wiht insane spring pressure on them, then these lifters are an advantage.
You could go through 6 or 7 sets of regular ones.
Those are the only cases I can see a real cost benefit...lots of cam swapping or running cams with roller lifter type lobes on a flat tappet cam due to class rules.
Otherwise, just go to a roller.....and if you spend another few bucks you can get the ceramic rollers and eliminate the issue of axle wear on them.
JIM
If you are doing LOTS of cam testing on a dyno or even in car, or wanted to run ungodly square flat tappet lobes that won't live long (think Super Stocker stuff) wiht insane spring pressure on them, then these lifters are an advantage.
You could go through 6 or 7 sets of regular ones.
Those are the only cases I can see a real cost benefit...lots of cam swapping or running cams with roller lifter type lobes on a flat tappet cam due to class rules.
Otherwise, just go to a roller.....and if you spend another few bucks you can get the ceramic rollers and eliminate the issue of axle wear on them.
JIM
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,130
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From: mesa,az
talked to Joe today, they no longer make the radius flat tappet ceramics although he says he might bring them back as he is getting a lot of calls. I ordered a set of the ceramic rollers,$1K. ouch but i am paranoid about standerd rollers coming apart in my engine.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
I wonder...
Are they grinding these things or machining them?
I had not heard about direct oiling the cam... makes good sense! Wonder if theres an issue with the hole in the lifter and wear?
Are they grinding these things or machining them?
I had not heard about direct oiling the cam... makes good sense! Wonder if theres an issue with the hole in the lifter and wear?
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I have spent some time on the phone with Joe also. I have also asked around the pits and have not heard much about them. I have heard that if you experiance any valve float they tend to be brittle and break. Unlike a conventioanl solid roller from what I understand when one of these things fail they totally disintegrate, remeber they are made of ceramic.
Here is a post from a Pro-Mod web site that talked about them, seems like they had pretty good luck with them. Remember these guys are very hard on all their parts.
http://www.promodifieds.com/forums/s...&threadid=2458
Here is a post from a Pro-Mod web site that talked about them, seems like they had pretty good luck with them. Remember these guys are very hard on all their parts.
http://www.promodifieds.com/forums/s...&threadid=2458
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: NC,USA
Totally disinigrate... thats no good!
How about those composite types that have a steel upper and ceramic lower?
I dont have the funds to go this route, but its pretty cool the "no wear" factor.
How about those composite types that have a steel upper and ceramic lower?
I dont have the funds to go this route, but its pretty cool the "no wear" factor.
Melting Slicks
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From: A high school diploma fixing what a college degree broke TN
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '26
Theres some guys bracket racing locally that are running the Shubecks.From what Ive heard they are very happy,as they change cams a lot and don't have to buy new lifters everytime anymore.I havent heard of any coming apart yet,though it may be too early to tell.
