Another New Camero Thread
10-17-2007, 07:31 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Another New Camaro Thread
I understand that people may be tired of talking about the new Camaro, but I just wanted to get peoples' opinion about what engine should power the car. Personally, I believe if Chevy is going to be competative against the Mustang, the price has to be on par with the Mustang. The whole reason Mustang beat the Camaro sales was, you could get a Mustang cheaper and have a huge aftermarket. Yes, chevy has a huge after market yes, but the parts for the Camaro are on par with a Vette rather than the Mustang. This is just my opinion, but I would like to see the base as a v6 of some sort, the RS as a 5.3L priced around 26k and has around 320 HP, and the Z28 in the 32-34k and has around 400HP. To me, this makes sence because it puts the Camaro on all playing fields of the Mustang. But it has to be lighter than the Mustang. That thing is just a pig
Last edited by Jim78SA; 10-18-2007 at 09:15 AM. Reason: spelling nazi's
10-17-2007, 09:57 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
I think the Corvette's engine should only be found in the Corvette. the Camaro is a great car, but its not supposed to be in the same class as the Corvette. We all know its not, in terms of build quality, fame, prestige and certainly handling, but I think that the flagship vehicle should have superior performance. the Corvette's engine should be for the Corvette. let the Camaro have the 5.3. it would be a good fit.
10-17-2007, 10:33 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
First off, its Camaro, not Camero.
Why wouldn't you want Chevy to build the best Camaro they can? F-bodies have been getting the y-body engine for quite some time (usually a year behind) and the Corvette somehow managed to be 'top dog'. I know Ford is putting the best they have into the Mustang (namely the GT500). I certainly hope GM puts at least an LS2 (if not an LS3) into the 5th gen.
The pony car market catches a lot of the younger buying public. GM should put the best engine (and chassis and suspension and etc, etc) they can into the f-body for a reasonable price.
I think the Corvette's engine should only be found in the Corvette. the Camaro is a great car, but its not supposed to be in the same class as the Corvette. We all know its not, in terms of build quality, fame, prestige and certainly handling, but I think that the flagship vehicle should have superior performance. the Corvette's engine should be for the Corvette. let the Camaro have the 5.3. it would be a good fit.
Why wouldn't you want Chevy to build the best Camaro they can? F-bodies have been getting the y-body engine for quite some time (usually a year behind) and the Corvette somehow managed to be 'top dog'. I know Ford is putting the best they have into the Mustang (namely the GT500). I certainly hope GM puts at least an LS2 (if not an LS3) into the 5th gen.
The pony car market catches a lot of the younger buying public. GM should put the best engine (and chassis and suspension and etc, etc) they can into the f-body for a reasonable price.
10-17-2007, 11:20 AM
#4
Pro
Thread Starter
First off, its Camaro, not Camero.
Why wouldn't you want Chevy to build the best Camaro they can? F-bodies have been getting the y-body engine for quite some time (usually a year behind) and the Corvette somehow managed to be 'top dog'. I know Ford is putting the best they have into the Mustang (namely the GT500). I certainly hope GM puts at least an LS2 (if not an LS3) into the 5th gen.
The pony car market catches a lot of the younger buying public. GM should put the best engine (and chassis and suspension and etc, etc) they can into the f-body for a reasonable price.
Why wouldn't you want Chevy to build the best Camaro they can? F-bodies have been getting the y-body engine for quite some time (usually a year behind) and the Corvette somehow managed to be 'top dog'. I know Ford is putting the best they have into the Mustang (namely the GT500). I certainly hope GM puts at least an LS2 (if not an LS3) into the 5th gen.
The pony car market catches a lot of the younger buying public. GM should put the best engine (and chassis and suspension and etc, etc) they can into the f-body for a reasonable price.
10-17-2007, 12:19 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
It isn't a matter of building the best Camero they can. It is a matter of building a car that can compete in price with the Mustang. A Camero, with a Vette engine, puts the it in a higher price bracket. The Mustang sells cause it is cheap with a huge after market. The Camero didn't sell cause it was expensive with an aftermarket shared with the Corvette. And lets face it, if it shares parts with the Vette, the price of the aftermarket parts share the same price as the Vette. If they stick with the 5.3 Liter, it opens a whole new aftermarket, with cheaper parts for not inly the Camero. but the Malibu as well.
Mustang's need a lot of aftermarket support because until the S197's, the chassis sucks. The 4th gen didn't sell because the ergonomics sucked. How many sorority college girls do you see driving V6 Mustangs? That is where Ford made their big money. Anyone who wanted an LS1 for cheap would drive a 4th gen, but the V6 buyers didn't float their end of the market because there were just too many ergonomic compromises.
IMO, the 5.3L won't cut it, period. GM put the 350 hp LS1 in the f-bodies in 98. They are going to have to step it up. If they can put an LS2 into a Trailblazer, they can put an LS2 into a Camaro. Anything less than 400 CHP in the new Camaro will be a failure.
Doesn't matter how much cheap the 5th gen will be if it is slow.
You do realize than the 5.3L and all other LSx based motors SHARE THE EXACT SAME ARCHITECTURE AS ALL THE OTHER LSx MOTORS, INCLUDING THE C6'S, RIGHT? Aftermarket engine parts cost the same for ALL LSx based motors. Why wouldn't GM use the good engines?
Last edited by Mojave; 10-17-2007 at 12:23 PM.
10-17-2007, 01:31 PM
#6
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You need to go back and look at the numbers again. The V6 Mustang is the reason Mustang had more sales than the Camaro because the V6 Mustang vs. the V6 Camaro, the Mustang was cheaper. When you got into the GT and cobra, they were right at the same price as the Z28 and SS or more. From what Ive heard the 5th gen. Camaro will not recieve any engine that is being built right now. IMO, there only needs to be the V6, Z28, and SS with the SS being the top of the line going for between $35k-$40k depending on if its a coupe or vert. and the options.
10-18-2007, 06:59 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
You need to go back and look at the numbers again. The V6 Mustang is the reason Mustang had more sales than the Camaro because the V6 Mustang vs. the V6 Camaro, the Mustang was cheaper. When you got into the GT and cobra, they were right at the same price as the Z28 and SS or more. From what Ive heard the 5th gen. Camaro will not recieve any engine that is being built right now. IMO, there only needs to be the V6, Z28, and SS with the SS being the top of the line going for between $35k-$40k depending on if its a coupe or vert. and the options.
2002 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 2dr Hatchback (5.7L 8cyl 4A)
(vehicle detail)
MSRP of Test Vehicle: $32,780
2008 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe 2dr Coupe
MSRP: $25,840 (in 2008)
Here you go. I took your advise, I looked at the numbers like you said. As you can see. The 2002 Z28 Camaro was almost $33k. Now look what a brand new Mustang GT costs today. $26k. I may not be able to spell Camaro (Camero), as it was so eligantly pointed out, spelling was never my strong suit, but even a bling man can see that there is a big difference between the two middle weight contenders in this comparison. Also, I got these MSRPs off of Edmunds if you feel the need to double check. So, again I say put the 5.3 liter in it to keep cost down. It may sacrifice HP but, a cheaper aftermarket, like what the Mustang already has, will open the door to younger buyers who don't make a lot of money. That is what the pony car was all about, cheap fun!
Last edited by Jim78SA; 10-18-2007 at 07:05 AM.
10-18-2007, 11:33 AM
#8
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2002 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 2dr Hatchback (5.7L 8cyl 4A)
(vehicle detail)
MSRP of Test Vehicle: $32,780
2008 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe 2dr Coupe
MSRP: $25,840 (in 2008)
Here you go. I took your advise, I looked at the numbers like you said. As you can see. The 2002 Z28 Camaro was almost $33k. Now look what a brand new Mustang GT costs today. $26k. I may not be able to spell Camaro (Camero), as it was so eligantly pointed out, spelling was never my strong suit, but even a bling man can see that there is a big difference between the two middle weight contenders in this comparison. Also, I got these MSRPs off of Edmunds if you feel the need to double check. So, again I say put the 5.3 liter in it to keep cost down. It may sacrifice HP but, a cheaper aftermarket, like what the Mustang already has, will open the door to younger buyers who don't make a lot of money. That is what the pony car was all about, cheap fun!
(vehicle detail)
MSRP of Test Vehicle: $32,780
2008 Ford Mustang GT Deluxe 2dr Coupe
MSRP: $25,840 (in 2008)
Here you go. I took your advise, I looked at the numbers like you said. As you can see. The 2002 Z28 Camaro was almost $33k. Now look what a brand new Mustang GT costs today. $26k. I may not be able to spell Camaro (Camero), as it was so eligantly pointed out, spelling was never my strong suit, but even a bling man can see that there is a big difference between the two middle weight contenders in this comparison. Also, I got these MSRPs off of Edmunds if you feel the need to double check. So, again I say put the 5.3 liter in it to keep cost down. It may sacrifice HP but, a cheaper aftermarket, like what the Mustang already has, will open the door to younger buyers who don't make a lot of money. That is what the pony car was all about, cheap fun!
And fyi, I just priced a fully loaded GT on Fords website and it was $32k, that is with a manual transmission not an automatic like you put on the Z28 which is $700 more on the GT, and I still could of added more options to it.
Last edited by 02MillenniumVette; 10-18-2007 at 12:17 PM.
10-18-2007, 12:15 PM
#9
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Just to add something else, I looked up the MSRP of a 2002 Mustang GT and a 2002 Camaro Z28. They both had the same MSRP of $23k-$29k depeding on the options. My '02 Camaro LE SS that I bought brand new was $32k. 
10-19-2007, 03:28 AM
#10
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Well, I olny typed in 2002 Camaro Z28. Edmunds came up with the price. But I did just get off the Ford.com site and built a Mustang Premium Package with every notable option I could think of and it still only came in a $33.5k. This is a 2008 model where as your Camaro was a 2002 model. I know most of my friends boought the Mustang, because it was a cheaper car with a lot cheaper aftermarket.
10-19-2007, 07:58 AM
#11
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Well, I olny typed in 2002 Camaro Z28. Edmunds came up with the price. But I did just get off the Ford.com site and built a Mustang Premium Package with every notable option I could think of and it still only came in a $33.5k. This is a 2008 model where as your Camaro was a 2002 model. I know most of my friends boought the Mustang, because it was a cheaper car with a lot cheaper aftermarket.
Again when they are compared equally, the Mustang GT or cobra is not cheaper than the Z28 or SS. A used one might be but not when they were brand new.
10-19-2007, 11:53 AM
#12
Team Owner
Lots of ummm "information" and opinion in this thread...
Points I don't agree with:
The 4thGen F-body did not die because of sharing components with the Corvette (of which, pretty much only the engine and tranny were the same), it died because of zero advertising and GM's refusal to update a platform that they were going to end anyway due to Safety Mandates.
You don't build an entirely new Camaro merely to "compete"... You go all out within reason to destroy the Mustang, otherwise you will never overcome the stigma attached to the F-body. Mustangs sell because they are accessible to everyone, have a huge cult-following, their own race-classes, and icon status. If Chevy fields something merely "as good", they will lose...big-time.
A 2002 Z28 could be had as low as $23K off the showroom floor (which is what I paid for my 2000 Z28 "out the door"), which made it the biggest performance bargain since, ironically, a 5.0 Mustang LX.
$32, 780? Maybe for a loaded SS convertible...
[QUOTE=mcgiles;1562339525]I think the Corvette's engine should only be found in the Corvette. the Camaro is a great car, but its not supposed to be in the same class as the Corvette. We all know its not, in terms of build quality, fame, prestige and certainly handling, but I think that the flagship vehicle should have superior performance. the Corvette's engine should be for the Corvette. let the Camaro have the 5.3. it would be a good fit.[/QUOTE]
Dude, I generally enjoy your posts, but I have to respectfully disagree. The Camaro has always shared power-plants with the Corvette, despite being a different class of car. It will save GM money, will stimulate the aftermarket for both cars and besides, a LS3 Camaro would just be cool!
The 5.3 would be OK for a base V8, but would actually be a step down from the last iteration, so why bother? Start at a 400HP LS2 and go up from there. Little difference in cost to use the 6.0 vs 5.3, so why not blow the Mustang away altogether?
I don't much care for the new Camaro styling, but I want it to succeed if for no other reason than to keep performance viable and somewhat affordable with GM.
Points I don't agree with:
The 4thGen F-body did not die because of sharing components with the Corvette (of which, pretty much only the engine and tranny were the same), it died because of zero advertising and GM's refusal to update a platform that they were going to end anyway due to Safety Mandates.
You don't build an entirely new Camaro merely to "compete"... You go all out within reason to destroy the Mustang, otherwise you will never overcome the stigma attached to the F-body. Mustangs sell because they are accessible to everyone, have a huge cult-following, their own race-classes, and icon status. If Chevy fields something merely "as good", they will lose...big-time.
A 2002 Z28 could be had as low as $23K off the showroom floor (which is what I paid for my 2000 Z28 "out the door"), which made it the biggest performance bargain since, ironically, a 5.0 Mustang LX.
$32, 780? Maybe for a loaded SS convertible...
[QUOTE=mcgiles;1562339525]I think the Corvette's engine should only be found in the Corvette. the Camaro is a great car, but its not supposed to be in the same class as the Corvette. We all know its not, in terms of build quality, fame, prestige and certainly handling, but I think that the flagship vehicle should have superior performance. the Corvette's engine should be for the Corvette. let the Camaro have the 5.3. it would be a good fit.[/QUOTE]
Dude, I generally enjoy your posts, but I have to respectfully disagree. The Camaro has always shared power-plants with the Corvette, despite being a different class of car. It will save GM money, will stimulate the aftermarket for both cars and besides, a LS3 Camaro would just be cool!
The 5.3 would be OK for a base V8, but would actually be a step down from the last iteration, so why bother? Start at a 400HP LS2 and go up from there. Little difference in cost to use the 6.0 vs 5.3, so why not blow the Mustang away altogether?I don't much care for the new Camaro styling, but I want it to succeed if for no other reason than to keep performance viable and somewhat affordable with GM.
10-19-2007, 07:43 PM
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Dude, I generally enjoy your posts, but I have to respectfully disagree. The Camaro has always shared power-plants with the Corvette, despite being a different class of car. It will save GM money, will stimulate the aftermarket for both cars and besides, a LS3 Camaro would just be cool!
The 5.3 would be OK for a base V8, but would actually be a step down from the last iteration, so why bother? Start at a 400HP LS2 and go up from there. Little difference in cost to use the 6.0 vs 5.3, so why not blow the Mustang away altogether?
but from what Scott Settlemire is saying, the new Camaro will not be getting any engine that is in any production vehicle right now. Thats for the V8 version, Im not sure about the V6. Personally Id love to see the Z28 get the LS2 and the SS get the LS3.
10-20-2007, 04:32 AM
#15
Team Owner
I have to agree. If GM could swing it, put a slightly de-tuned CTS V6 in the base Camaro with say 280HP. I'd then go directly to the LS2 (or a similar "new" engine) with just over 400HP for the Z28. Your SS/RS/special-edition cars could get the LS3 and the tooling change would be minimal. If GM comes out with a flaccid engine line-up, the Camaro is dead again after 4 years...
10-20-2007, 09:09 AM
#16
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I have to agree. If GM could swing it, put a slightly de-tuned CTS V6 in the base Camaro with say 280HP. I'd then go directly to the LS2 (or a similar "new" engine) with just over 400HP for the Z28. Your SS/RS/special-edition cars could get the LS3 and the tooling change would be minimal. If GM comes out with a flaccid engine line-up, the Camaro is dead again after 4 years...
Hopefully they will be smart about it and not but a weak engine in it. I know its not saying much with the Mustang GT, but they need to keep beating the Mustangs stock for stock.
10-20-2007, 10:48 AM
#17
Team Owner
The standard Camaro V6 will be the one to watch. If it's a loser, it will take the V8 line-up with it... Please, GM, put the Caddy direct-injection V6 in there!
10-26-2007, 07:37 AM
#19
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St. Jude Donor '08
I sure as hell hope GM makes the LS7 (or equivalent) >500HP an option for the Camaro. I'd even like to see the new SC SS/BD/ZR1 engine as an option. I can't be the only one that would buy one!