Chuck,

I agree with you 100%, but have you seen the asking prices on big block Chevelles and Camaros (as well as many other steel bodied big block cars), lately? I think Corvettes are twice the cars they are. (I traded my '69 Z-28 for my 'Vette a few years ago) Where else can you get american muscle with independent rear suspension,and 4 wheel disc brakes? But for some reason, the prices are not that different between a big block shark and an original big block Chevelle or Camaro (or Z-28 for that matter).

There are some things that I just was not meant to understand...

 

I sure dont see the bb camaros and chevelles getting what the bb vetts do
I see camaros and chevelles nice restored going for $18000.00 to $23000.00 and 68 to 71 bb vetts nice restored for $30000.00 to 40000.00

 

Mord, if you are still reading this thread, perhaps I have been too exuberant in my negativism: There is a 69 T-top coupe in my local paper this morning for $7200. Frankly, I am surprised by the low price, but maybe the guy doesn't know Vettes, is looking for a quick sale (Santa is making his list), or the car is really rough and the owner knows it.

It is a 350 (base engine or L46?) with automatic (my preference would be the four speed). Owner says it has new tires (figure half gone) and is in "good shape" (uh-oh, shoulda' said "great shape"...interior probably looks like it went through the Civil War and is still hanging on).

Anyway, you can expect there to be some scatter in the pricing of these cars depending on the knowledge and motivation of the sellers, and the condition of the cars. In this case, from my experience with local cars, I would say there is a good chance that the car will have most of the important original components, but it will be REALLY rough. I would figure $20K to make a really nice car out of it. As Gary said earlier, you would be better off to find yourself a nice car that has already been restored.

You could buy this car for your first Corvette, but then you would probably need to pour money into it to fix it, or else drive around for your friends to see you in a ragged, smoking, wheezing, stinking, caricature of an old Corvette. On the other hand, it just might be a garage kept, numbers matching, original being sold by some old geezer who figures he is going to make a "killing" by selling the car for 40 percent more than he paid for it. I guess it pays to check'em all out.

 

You didn't specify what you wanted to do with the car after you purchase it.
Most replies that I've seen concerning 'restoration' seem to imply that you
will want to show and have your car judged. IMO, there is nothing wrong
with "restoring" the car to the way you want it or not using the correct original shade of black. A lot of folks get enjoyment out of owning and
showing their cars yet only drive them from the trailer to the showstand.
My in-law is a classic example of this, as his all original '64 roadster has not
accumulated more than 10 miles in the last 20 years. I, however, do not
get enjoyment out of such an adventure. I'm much rather drive a non-
original car than show an original one. I bought a non-matching '66
roadster (non-drivable) to "restore". I paid less than 10K for a complete
car, albeit rough. They are out there. I havn't "restored" it yet because
a project like that is time consuming and expensive. But when I do, I
doubt I'll worry about the correct bolt markings/ shade of black/ casting
numbers, dates etc... That's not to say I won't know what is and is not correct, but it will be the way I choose to do it. (I picture ceramic coated
headers and lots of stainless hardware...)

IMO, all this factory correct numbers matching is a double edged sword.
I appreciate an all original car (and some may argue a restored car is not
an original car...just the nomeclature I use) but it also has brought upon
the hobby dramtically rising prices, to the point where most people can
no longer afford a nice example of the breed. Additionally, it has produced numerous fakes, phonies, and flat out frauds. I'm sure plenty of people
will knock me for my "non-matching restored" car, but I thinks it better than passing it off as original when it's not.




[Modified by Top_Notch, 10:45 AM 12/6/2001]

 

This was a reasonable conclusion considering the original question was asked in the context of the "Factory Correct Restoration" Forum. Otherwise, the terminology "restoration" has as many definitions as there are Corvette owners outside the NCRS realm. He could have, and may have, also asked the question over on the C2/C3 forums, and there would have been no concensus, except maybe on a new paint job and a new interior...You want ceramic coated headers, and another wants chrome-plated header side pipes.

If your in-law is associated with the NCRS, he probably represents a minority. For a fresh restoration, many NCRS members trailer the car for judging, but many drive their restored cars to meets for judging, and receive extra judging points based on mileage. Driving is definitely encouraged. There may be NCRS members that are involved in the "show" circuit outside of NCRS, but I haven't personally met any.

Often, you will meet NCRS owners that have restored a car, had it judged with honors, only to sell the car and move on to the next restoration challenge. They may do this several times doing their lifetime. As you point out, the effect has been to increase the value of Corvettes...your perspective on this probably depends on whether you were in the market or out when it started to take off. No longer do people consider Corvettes just another "used car" to be used up and relegated to the crusher. Potential owners value cars that look just like they rolled off the assembly line, and they are willing to pay more money for them. Is that wrong or right? Well, no, you can grouse about it, but that's how the free-market works. Too much money chasing too few nice Corvettes.

It is well known that you are not likey to get your 'restification' money back out of any custom car. But, if you buy and restore a Corvette wisely, you could not only get your money out, but make a profit. As you pointed out, that encourages the wrong kind of people, but in my opinion, it makes more sense than investing a lot of cash in your one-off dream car that no one else is willing to fork over good money to own.

 

Hi its Mordi (the guy that started all of this!)

When I started this thread, I asked what I thought was an innocent question, with the best of intentions. I realize now that my casual use of the term "restoration" was inappropriate. I had no appreciation of the significance of the term "restoration", as it applies to cars. Sorry for all the confusion on my part. I just wanted to end up with a "really nice car" when I am done. I don't have any experience working on cars - this will be my first. Yes, I'll have some good help to assist me, but I will more than likely screw up some things. That's Ok. I'm in the learning mode.

I'd like to find a 1970 car, if possible, in original condition. It would be nice if the numbers matched, but not a requirement. I believe I can find one for $10,000. It make take some time, but basesd on what I have seen so far, I think such a car is out there somewhere. It may be in a newspaper, perhaps a swap meet or a may find it in a street in my neighborhood. Such a car would be sold by someone that perhaps bought it new (or second owner) and mainitained it for all these years and just wants to find a good home for it. Or perhaps, someone who is interested in selling it in a hurry because they are getting a new C5! I don't want something that is prestine or that someone else has restored. I just want an old car to work on and fix up. I don't want to make it into a show car with matching numbers - just a daily driver that I can really enjoy and turns a few (non restoration) heads now and then!

Is that too much to ask?

Mordi

Mordi

 

No problema. Es nada. This thread has been educational for many of us. Continue to hang out here and learn while you look, and keep us informed on your progress. :)

 

If you're feeling a little stomped flat, don't be concerned. Even those who've been involved in hot rodding, restoration and whatever aspect of automotive fun you wish to name can't agree on definitions at the best of times. The one thing we all have in common is the thrill factor.

My recommendation is do your homework- pick the right car. Since you're not interested or as yet don't feel ready for the Pit of Peril known as Numbers Matching, DON'T GO THERE! Find a solid C3 which is not numbers matching and have some fun with it before you start doing any refurbishing.

When you run into some problems (notice I said when, not if) there's a wealth of information and experience here for the asking but some of us (not me personally, of course!) may poke some fun at you occasionally. Don't let it get to you- it's all done in fun.