Has anyone used or know about Performance Chevy in Phoenix AZ? They advertise in the NCRS Driveline and was wondering how good their work is. According to the add you can get a rebuilt numbers matching short block for ~$2000. I currently have a CE block and want to pull it for a repaint. Unfortunatly the short block was replaced within a year of when the car was built. The car only has 65,000 miles and the engine is still good. While I was pulling it I was wondering if I should go the extra mile and get the correct dated/numbered block.

I know there are purists out there that think this is wrong but as far as I am concerned I am restoring not counterfitting. I am only making the car what I know it is from the documentation I have.

Another option I have is rebuilding a correctly dated block I have here but do not know anyone in the PA area that does restoration restamping.

Any info welcomed. Please PM me.

Thanks
Greg

 

Not quite. They will offer a rebuilt restamped short block.

If the original engine was replaced within the first twelve months of the car's life, sounds like it was replaced under warranty and would be a CE block. Since you already know the history of this engine and since it's running well, why not keep $2000 in your pocket and keep what you have?

 

Because you loose a ton of points for having a casting date after the manufacturing date of the car.
A rebuilt restamped (correctly restamped with the proper broach marks) would be worth a lot more points.
I would guess that there is a large percentage of restamped blocks out there that are "numbers matching". Numbers matching does not mean it is the original part.
And yes the block is a CE and it was replaced under warrantee but that means nothing when it is judged.

 

Are the points worth $2K to you?

 

Well I have been wondering that for a couple years. Just know that I want to pull the engine and re paint everything. That started me thinking about making the swap. I am sure I could sell my short block and recoupe a fair portion of the money. Just need to find someone looking for a correct block for a 71 HP Chev.
Just trying to get all the facts together so I can decide.
By the way a junkyard truck block with the proper casting date is worth 88 points (2% of total points) more then a CE block replaced under warentee with a casting date after the build date of the car. And most all replacements would have been build at a later date. They did not keep a large inventory of replacement motors around.
Too bad no one knew about these issues bach in the day.
As of now I will loose 4% and that is a lot to loose on one item. Tough to recover form that point loss. That is why I never tried to get it judged.

 

Greg
You have a PM
mrgil

 

Hi
Might want to post to the NCRS board
Good luck
Michael

 

I'd keep the CE block - even if you pull and replace it for judging. it is part of the history of the car.

 

The original engine is gone, correct? So, now you want to restamp another engine, put it in your car and represent that this new engine is the original engine so you can get "points" or will you represent the truth?

Just make sure that the next owner who purchases the car has full knowledge of your adjustments. Yeah, we know you will never sell it, but after you are gone, someone else will own it.

Before you go to all this trouble, let me give you some advise - it will be detected.

 

FYI This is the Bloomington Gold & NCRS take on the subject!

restoration: "To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state."
For Example:
1. Repainting an original Tuxedo Black Corvette with Tuxedo Black paint.
2. Restamping an original block with the same CID/Suffix/VIN as that block had when it left the factory.

counterfeiting: "To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud."
For Example:
1. Repainting an original Glen Green Corvette with Riverside Red paint and changing the trim tag so it appears it left the factory as a Riverside Red Corvette.
2. Replacing the engine in a small block Corvette with a big block and making the CID/Suffix/VIN stampings appear that the Corvette left the factory as a big block.
3. Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and altering the block numbers and suffix code to make it appear it left the factory as a fuel injection Corvette.

 

You don't have the original block.

 

Touche Mike.

 

Greg, before you stray too far from the facts with your editing skills allow me to post exactly from the NCRS what their position is, which is different than your claim.

RESTORE:

"To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state".

For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are not considered counterfeiting:

-Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint.

-Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior.

COUNTERFEIT:

"To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud".

For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting:

-Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color.

-Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior.

-Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine.

-Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original.


Additionally, I am not aware of Bloomington publically stating their position on this matter.

As Mike correctly pointed out, you no longer have the original block, so if it smells like a duck and walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, well...

As I stated earlier, do whatever you want, but do not think for a second that it will not be detected. See you on the judging field...

 

Wow just happened to look at this section and see that I was insulted!
I did not edit. I am insulted that you believed that I made up this and claimed it as a fact. All I did was research the topic and this is what I found on the internet.

Below is an exact copy of what I found on the net and here is the link

http://proteamcorvette.com/about.html

From Bloomington Gold's Procedures and Protocols, page 4/5.
RESTORATION vs. COUNTERFEIT
It is not Bloomington Gold's policy to "look for counterfeits". However, if a counterfeit engine, trim tag or VIN is discovered, our policy subjects the owner to immediate disqualification and ineligibility to participate in future Certification events. If a Bloomington Gold judge is aware of such a counterfeit, he is required to advise the Division Director. Furthermore, if any Bloomington Gold judge is found to be associated with a Corvette entered in Certification which is determined to be counterfeit, he is subject to immediate and permanent dismissal from the National Corvette Certification Board.

Bloomington Gold does not necessarily consider "re-stamping" to be counterfeiting. If the "re-stamp" was done with the intention of restoring or replacing the original numbers rather than deceiving, Bloomington Gold does not consider that to be counterfeit. Bloomington Gold uses Webster's Dictionary to define:

restoration: "To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state."
For Example:
1. Repainting an original Tuxedo Black Corvette with Tuxedo Black paint.
2. Restamping an original block with the same CID/Suffix/VIN as that block had when it left the factory.

counterfeiting: "To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud."
For Example:
1. Repainting an original Glen Green Corvette with Riverside Red paint and changing the trim tag so it appears it left the factory as a Riverside Red Corvette.
2. Replacing the engine in a small block Corvette with a big block and making the CID/Suffix/VIN stampings appear that the Corvette left the factory as a big block.
3. Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and altering the block numbers and suffix code to make it appear it left the factory as a fuel injection Corvette.

Copy from existing material excerpted from Certification Guidelines
Note: Reprinted with copyright permission from Bloomington Gold.

 

Greg,

You stated on 9/12/08:

“FYI This is the Bloomington Gold & NCRS take on the subject!”

I contend that is incorrect. It is not the NCRS position. I posted the NCRS position, which you continue to confuse with Bloomington. These are the standards all NCRS judges follow on the field, myself included. Please go back and re-read the previous posts. Your post relates to Bloomington, which is a different organization.

Do whatever you like, Greg, it is your car.

 

Your guess are right. I should not have said NCRS. And your are correct I will do what I want. All I was looking for was info the quality of work of a machine shop and guess I will not get any help here.

I am sure there are many more "restored number matching" cars out there now then there were several years ago and there will be more all the time.

 

Screw the NCRS, do what you want for yourself, not for everyone else!!!!!

 

If Chester Springs is in the east of PA, there is a Vette specialist in the Exton, West Chester area....................

 

Never was a horse that couldn't be rode or a rider that couldn't be throwed! Same applies to telling original from restored parts on Corvettes despite what is somtimes said I also compare this to counterfeit money and its' detection! JMHO

 

If I were looking at buying your car I would much rather it have the CE engine than some restamp with unknown history some independent engine rebuilding shop doctored up and put together. For one thing the history of your CE is known and it most likely has all standard sizes everywhere with uncut original decks where your restamped replacement will be at least .030 over and probably .060 over with a .010/ .010 or .020/ .020 crankshaft and who knows what else is machined and put back together with import parts.


The other issue is your car could be sold for more with a restamp to an unsuspecting potential buyer which is the main incentive in the market for restamped blocks. NCRS points notwithstanding all cars are eventually in the market again.