machine shop 'misplaced' correct L82 out of a 4-speed 1978 Pace Car. Court proceedings have been initiated, but how much is the factroy correct engine worth to the total value of the Pace Car: in storage since 1985, >10,000 miles, new interior...how do I prove the value of the loss to the correct restoration??? Please help...

 

OMG!

How in the hell can you misplace a block. Never mind, don't answer.

I think if it were me, there would some employees turning that business inside, upside and sideways looking for my block. Not to mention every customer who picked something up from them in the time frame you had your engine there.

 

Why were you even rebuilding such a low mileage block in the first place? I'd sue for full value replacement the car! There are more out there that can replace the one they ruined. That way who ever stold your block can have the car that goes with it.


[Modified by Kevs67, 9:06 PM 3/5/2002]

 

This is an easy one.
Get the price of a half dozen correct numbers pace cars that are for sale right now at over inflated prices. $25,000 plus...

Then find a half dozen well used not correct pace cars that are for sale, $10,000 or less...

Remember, your car is now unrestored, and with the correct engine it would have been a correct numbers restored car.

Then take them to court if they won't pay the difference (settle) out of court...
With the internet the way it is today, it will be easy to get the numbers you want...

 

well it was stolen and spun a bearing trying to outrun the police...so i just put it up on blocks....lets see you steal it now......yeah, well sixteen years later, let's roll....


[Modified by nolessthanblessed, 6:17 AM 3/6/2002]

 

I agree with both Kev and DD, they have just turned a collectable into a never to be again. Make them step up to the plate and own the car but do your research and find some that are well over priced. Proteam would be a good start. That totally sucks buddy, nail them to the wall :boxing :cry :mad

 

I've read several post like this over the past year or two, and just cannot understand how a machine shop can lose or misplace an engine block. I've had a number of engines and cylinder heads rebuilt in my lifetime, and the shops I deal with are small to medium sized businesses, where I am known. Was this a "mass production" facility? How can anyone misplace or lose a 300# piece of cast iron? Agree with others regarding value. Low mileage Pace Cars are very common, and the loss of the original engine really hurts the value of this car. Chuck

 

Hmmmm...I wonder how fast that block could get found if a really irate customer wuz to grab the proprietor by the shirt collar, whip out a 44 magnum pistol and stick the end of that big barrel up under his jowly chin and pull the hammer back(Remember to always keep your finger off the trigger until you have the weapon trained on the target).

Nawwww...I have been watching too many Bruce Willis movies. Assaulting some polecat with a deadly weapon IS A CRIME! And, even if he did steal something very valuable from you, it is politically incorrect to take the law into your own hands! That place would be crawling with the SWAT, FBI, ATF, and all manner of SOBs wanting to kill you. (But, officer, I only wanted to get back the engine that belonged to me in the first place.)

If the suit isn't successful, I believe I would have to burn his business down. (For those out there who may take this seriously, be advised: this is only a joke, and in no way represents advice for normal social behavior, but rather represents abnormal psychotic ramblings. How's that Mac, good enough?)

:jester :jester :jester


[Modified by Chuck Sangerhausen, 8:20 AM 3/6/2002]

 

I thought that's how y'all conducted every day business down there in the Lone Star State! :D

 

Well, 67, it's sad to say, but times have moved on. It's these infernal big cities, if you know what I mean.

Back in the old days, the exact same scenario would've played out, and the county sheriff, who knew you since before you were born, and your parents too since they were kids, and who also knew that low-down, no-account polecat had already stolen from many less excitable people and deserved exactly what he got, would let you off with a stern warning and a jail threat about pointing guns at people. Of course, by that time, you would have your engine block back, and that low-down, no-account polecat would have soiled his underpants big-time.

Witness the Waco Branch Davidian fiasco...the county sheriff (Waco is basically a rural, law-abiding county), and the DPS had already been out there, and knew the nuts had an armory out there, but as long as they weren't hurting anybody with them, they didn't see a problem...leave them nut-cases be. Well, along comes Slick *****'s overly-ambitious fed maroons with their over-funded black uniforms and body armour, bazookas, and tanks, and dam, if somebody didn't get hurt. The BDs, they thought it wuz Armageddon time, and shot the fedsters butts off in Round One. After that, the fedsters never did storm the place; the BDs burned it down on themselves before giving it up to the devil. I reckon those would-be heroes and promotees got a fair dose of armed resistance on the first go-round, and decided to resort to psycho-warfare and seige after that.

Nowadays, big cities have grown up in Texas, and the PD hasn't known you since you were a kid anymore. So, in this case, they would have resorted to "overwhelming force" just like all the other big-city PDs up north. Sometimes, it seems really stupid and comical to watch these situations on the tube: first you get a guy that gets incoherently drunk or really, really depressed, and what does he do...he gets himself a gun and BARRICADES himself in his own house. Well, unless he calls the news media, how in heck does anyone EVEN KNOW that he has taken himself hostage. And, besides, its not illegal to have and/or handle a gun inside your own home ALMOST anywhere in the country.

The response: Instead of leaving the guy alone to sleep it off or realize life will go on, the local PD scrambles the SWAT team, surrounds the place, and hauls out the bullhorn to negotiate. When the guy sees this circus outside, what does he do? He figures there is no going back, and he digs in deeper. I guess they would end up shooting the guy to save him...from what, himself?... if he didn't finally get sane or sober enough to give it up.


[Modified by Chuck Sangerhausen, 10:27 AM 3/6/2002]


[Modified by Chuck Sangerhausen, 10:41 AM 3/6/2002]

 

On second thought you might be lucky. If they hadn't lost you block it would have probably come back decked with the stamp pad gone and also rendered the engine worthless. Sounds like this shop isn't up to restoration type work to me. But in your conversations with them remind them if they find it, do not deck it past the cylinder head. I would hate that to be the REST OF THE STORY. :smash:

 

well, i left the engine there when i went on vacation, was in no hurry, wanted job done correctly, this was last July....was extremely busy, three different jobs, saving to buy business...well, now have business, Pace Car still sitting at old job waiting for engine....will have to pay storage soon

 

Let me answer this one for you, Chuck. Most police officers are human- they have spouses and kids which they'd like to see again, so they're consious of their personal safety with good reason. This week, we buried a constable in Montreal who was killed after stopping a stolen car.

Trust me on this one, Chuck- it isn't comical for the police in these scenarios. The jump from "I'm gonna blow my brains out" to "I'm gonna blow your brains out" isn't a big one. The problem is your drunken, depressed gunman calls his momma to say goodbye and she calls the police and screams "Save my baby from himself!!" and she won't take "NO" for an answer.

If you have a better solution than surrounding the place, evacuating the neighbors and using trained negotiators to convince the drunken fool to lay down his gun, start talking! If the guy gets shot, it's because he's become a threat to someone else, never himself. He can sit and stew all he wants as long as he doesn't start pointing his gun at people.

Little known fact- Canajun Land has higher gun ownership per capita than the Excited States but our gun ownership is almost exclusively long arms- rifles and shotguns. Our rate of gun-related crime? Much, much lower than the Excited States. Reason? My best guess is it's harder to conceal a rifle under your jacket or in your glovebox.

 

I agree, and don't mean to make light of the risk that law enforcement officers take in these situations. As a civilian, I have no access to incident reports; I only know what I read in the newspapers. But, I question that if in their haste to use the para-military solution in these situations, law enforcement doesn't put themselves and everybody else in "harms way" prematurely.

Com'n, Macster, you're not trying to tell me that a distraught mother is really going to determine whether a PD is going to put on a major operation to save her baby? I am well aware these actions are taken to protect the general public, and it is a policy with which I agree. But, until the guy begins discharging the weapon or making threatening motions toward others, then overwhelming force is not justified.

I not saying to put law officers or neighbors in jeopardy; I am saying discreetly get the neighbors out, and station an un-marked unit to watch the situation...if the guy begins to point his weapon out of the window, then bring in the army. Give the mother a sedative, and explain to her that her son is grown, responsible adult, and that everything possible is going to be done to talk the idiot out of hurting himself or someone else.

Actually, to me, making a car stop or a domestic disturbance call is much more dangerous than the situation we have been discussing. At least when the guy barricades himself in the house, you know the situation, and where gunfire is likely to originate. In car stops, law enforcement HAS to assume that EVERY STOP is potentially the one where they will be shot. Day in and day out, they stop housewives, businessmen, teenagers; the human thing would be to get lulled into complacency. But, if they relax their vigilance, the next one can be a murderer. Stopping people in cars in inherently risky unless you make everybody get out of their car with their hands on their head, a practice which the citizenry would never allow to exist for long.

Domestic disturbance is a whole 'nother matter. Officers are right in among the combatants on their turf; people forget about their differences and change sides so the former warring couple is now unified against the police who didn't ask to be in this fray, but are now there. Weapons can come out from hiding places, and officers or the warring couple can be hurt. Whew, no thanks, you guys can have all that you want.

So, Macster, how do answer statistics that show that the crime rate in those "Excited States" (Florida, Texas, et al) with concealed carry laws actually decline after such laws are enacted? These laws allow people with clean records and law-abing history to be "permitted" to carry a concealed handgun for personal protection after taking a gun safety training course and demonstrating proficiency with firearms. I believe that the number of un-warranted incidents with concealed carry holders is down around 2%. My opinion is the fact that ANYBODY can be carrying actually deters the bad guys from committing crime, because they want to continue living themselves.

 

I know that Chuck can be a nickname for Charles but I thought your surname was Sangerhausen not Heston! :lol: :yesnod: :lol:

When it comes to guns and crime statistics, there are no right answers and statistics can be warped to reflect whichever opinion you wanna milk from them. For instance, my comments re: gun ownership in Canajun land. There's very little statistical value in comparing a farmer's rifle for protecting livestock to a Wall Street broker's handgun in his glovebox for protecting blue chip stocks.

At any rate, I feel for the guy who lost his engine to a rebuilder who was, in all likelihood, more careless than conniving. To the machinist, it was just another block amongst many which pass through their hands. To the car owner, it's a different story. The machine shop must be held responsible for their negligence which means (shudder!) lawyers! :(

 

So, we're all in agreement that a Vette with its original motor is worth twice as much as Vette with a replacement motor. Case closed. Next debate.

 

Whoa, hang on- if you take the "original motor" debate away, you might as well cancel half of the more spirited threads on Corvetteforum! I don't think you'll ever be able to close THAT case but I gotta agree..... next debate??