Trailer brake controllers
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Trailer brake controllers
Has anyone ever used the Carlisle brake controller? I finally broke down this week and bought an enclosed trailer and am trying to decide on a brake controller. The Carlisle controller looks real attractive since it mounts on the trailer rather the in the truck, and would allow for my friends to use the trailer with out installing a controller in their truck. It is a pricey controller, and don't want to spend the money without hearing from someone who uses one. Thanks.
:seeya
:seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
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Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
I'm not familiar with the Carlisle controller and I'm curious about how it would function, being mounted on the trailer. Is it a surge brake system? Hydraulic or electric? If electric, how do you control the braking power if the controller is on the trailer??
If it is a surge brake system, there is a GVW restriction here in BC for surge braking systems; I don't know about Texas. My car trailer has hydraulic surge brakes and it's a good system.
If it is a surge brake system, there is a GVW restriction here in BC for surge braking systems; I don't know about Texas. My car trailer has hydraulic surge brakes and it's a good system.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Trailer brake controllers (Mac)
Mac,
It is an inertia type electronic controller that senses the de-acceleration of the trailer and applys the brakes proportionally to the de-accleration. It uses the same principal as most of the high end in-cab controllers, but is mounted on the trailer instead and a remote control plugs into the cigarette lighter and talks through the wiring system to allow adjustment of the braking force. It has some real appeal since a number of my friends will no doubt end up borrowing my trailer from time to time, and would not have to invest in a controller in their truck. The downside is that the Carlisle unit is about 3x the price of a similar high end in-cab controller!
I am not willing to spend this extra money without at least talking to someone who uses the unit and is satisfied with it.
:seeya
It is an inertia type electronic controller that senses the de-acceleration of the trailer and applys the brakes proportionally to the de-accleration. It uses the same principal as most of the high end in-cab controllers, but is mounted on the trailer instead and a remote control plugs into the cigarette lighter and talks through the wiring system to allow adjustment of the braking force. It has some real appeal since a number of my friends will no doubt end up borrowing my trailer from time to time, and would not have to invest in a controller in their truck. The downside is that the Carlisle unit is about 3x the price of a similar high end in-cab controller!
I am not willing to spend this extra money without at least talking to someone who uses the unit and is satisfied with it.
:seeya
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,501
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Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
So it's equivolent to a surge brake system but manages the same effect with electrics?
Hydraulic surge brakes have a piston mounted in the tongue of the trailer. When you brake in the towing vehicle, the trailer (which isn't braking yet) presses against the trailer hitch, compressing the piston which applies the trailer's brakes. It's a good system and makes braking very smooth with no marked transition when the trailer's brakes are applied.
The reason there's a weight restriction is the tongue of the trailer isn't rigid; it must be able to move to compress the piston. Since it isn't rigid, it isn't as strong, or so the theory goes.
What actives the trailer brakes with the Carlisle system- the surge or electric (ie: tied to brake lights)? What's the deal with the cigar lighter?? Do they have a website???
Hydraulic surge brakes have a piston mounted in the tongue of the trailer. When you brake in the towing vehicle, the trailer (which isn't braking yet) presses against the trailer hitch, compressing the piston which applies the trailer's brakes. It's a good system and makes braking very smooth with no marked transition when the trailer's brakes are applied.
The reason there's a weight restriction is the tongue of the trailer isn't rigid; it must be able to move to compress the piston. Since it isn't rigid, it isn't as strong, or so the theory goes.
What actives the trailer brakes with the Carlisle system- the surge or electric (ie: tied to brake lights)? What's the deal with the cigar lighter?? Do they have a website???
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Trailer brake controllers (Mac)
Mac,
Here is a link to a vendor selling their product. An electronic device similar to a pendulum controls the actuation of the brakes. As the vehicle brakes the controller senses the de-acceleration and applies a proportional current to the brakes that increases with the amount of de-acceleration. The plug-in controller is simply to tune the level of braking and match it to the load you are carrying. This basic concept is used in all the proportional brake controllers sold today, but this one goes a step further by moving the control to the trailer rather than the dash.
http://www.preproassembly.com/ebs/esmain.htm
Looks like an extremely well built unit but sure is pricey considering you can get a top of the line Teckonsha controller for about $124! You are correct that the action is very similar to surge brakes, with the added ability to tune the amount of braking, and the brakes do not tend to drag on downhill runs. The electronic controllers have to sense de-acceleration and the brake pedal must be depressed to apply any braking. The cheaper controllers out there, use a timed based control that applies a small barking force and increases the force the longer the pedal is depressed. Not a bad design all in all, but It cannot accommodate panic stops like proportional brakes can.
:seeya
Here is a link to a vendor selling their product. An electronic device similar to a pendulum controls the actuation of the brakes. As the vehicle brakes the controller senses the de-acceleration and applies a proportional current to the brakes that increases with the amount of de-acceleration. The plug-in controller is simply to tune the level of braking and match it to the load you are carrying. This basic concept is used in all the proportional brake controllers sold today, but this one goes a step further by moving the control to the trailer rather than the dash.
http://www.preproassembly.com/ebs/esmain.htm
Looks like an extremely well built unit but sure is pricey considering you can get a top of the line Teckonsha controller for about $124! You are correct that the action is very similar to surge brakes, with the added ability to tune the amount of braking, and the brakes do not tend to drag on downhill runs. The electronic controllers have to sense de-acceleration and the brake pedal must be depressed to apply any braking. The cheaper controllers out there, use a timed based control that applies a small barking force and increases the force the longer the pedal is depressed. Not a bad design all in all, but It cannot accommodate panic stops like proportional brakes can.
:seeya
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,339
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From: Hampton Georgia
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
Hey john,if ya dont mind me askin,what did ya pay for that trailer.I thought I had a good deal this weekend on a 24' wells cargo but got beat out at the last 5 min on ebay.Ill just keep on truckin with my open trailer I guess. :seeya
Pro
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 578
Likes: 2
From: River Ridge LA
Re: Trailer brake controllers (paintdaddy)
There was a show on Two Guys Garage that they put one of these on it worked well on the show Maybe they have some info Good Luck :chevy
[Modified by La Orange, 1:19 AM 2/10/2003]
[Modified by La Orange, 1:19 AM 2/10/2003]
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Trailer brake controllers (paintdaddy)
Hi Mark,
I paid $5200 for a brand new Pace 20' pursuit. It has the auto hauler package which includes the diamond plate stone guard, interior lights, and vents. It also includes the spare tire and mount. I hunted around and found some web sellers selling the same trailer for as little as $5050 for the same options, but would have had to waited for one to be built and then drove 100 miles to the factory to pick it up. Decided instead to use the quotes to get the lowest possible price from the local dealer who had one in stock but was high on his price. I looked at some cheaper trailers, but most had spring-type axles, and torsion flex axles were very high on my must have list. I had been looking on the used market for over a year, and got real tired ofseeing 4 year-old trailers bringing new prices! The 20' and 24' used market is incredible! I hope it still is when I ever decide to sell mine!
:seeya
I paid $5200 for a brand new Pace 20' pursuit. It has the auto hauler package which includes the diamond plate stone guard, interior lights, and vents. It also includes the spare tire and mount. I hunted around and found some web sellers selling the same trailer for as little as $5050 for the same options, but would have had to waited for one to be built and then drove 100 miles to the factory to pick it up. Decided instead to use the quotes to get the lowest possible price from the local dealer who had one in stock but was high on his price. I looked at some cheaper trailers, but most had spring-type axles, and torsion flex axles were very high on my must have list. I had been looking on the used market for over a year, and got real tired ofseeing 4 year-old trailers bringing new prices! The 20' and 24' used market is incredible! I hope it still is when I ever decide to sell mine!
:seeya
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From: Washington Michigan
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,575
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From: Tuttle OK
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
Hey John,
I would strongly recommend that you consider an in cab controller that works off of the tow vehicle brakes rather than any inertia type.
The reason for my recommendation is pure safety. Any inertia controller is a reactive rather that proactive system (in fact, many states have outlawed surge type for this reason). In the event of emergency braking, your tow vehicle must be in the process of stopping before the trailer will even start to brake, allowing the trailer to “push” the tow vehicle before helping with the stopping process (this is magnified in slippery conditions). The proactive type can be set to actually apply amplified brake and do it at nearly the exact instant that you touch your brake pedal.
Having worked with Featherlite manufacturing (we do trailers) for nearly 20 years, I have seen reactive type braking systems contribute to the severity of accidents and always try to steer all from them.
Just my.02. Hope this helps.
Lonny
I would strongly recommend that you consider an in cab controller that works off of the tow vehicle brakes rather than any inertia type.
The reason for my recommendation is pure safety. Any inertia controller is a reactive rather that proactive system (in fact, many states have outlawed surge type for this reason). In the event of emergency braking, your tow vehicle must be in the process of stopping before the trailer will even start to brake, allowing the trailer to “push” the tow vehicle before helping with the stopping process (this is magnified in slippery conditions). The proactive type can be set to actually apply amplified brake and do it at nearly the exact instant that you touch your brake pedal.
Having worked with Featherlite manufacturing (we do trailers) for nearly 20 years, I have seen reactive type braking systems contribute to the severity of accidents and always try to steer all from them.
Just my.02. Hope this helps.
Lonny
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Trailer brake controllers (Avette4me)
Lonny,
Iwas not aware that anyone still made one that hooked to your truck's brakes! I was told that they quit making them because there were problems with using them on anti-lock brakes, and almost all cars have them now. I used this type of controller for years and was amazed to find that I cou;ld not find one anymore. When I do a search for controllers I find only the inertia controllers and the time-based controllers. Who still makes such a controller?
:seeya
[Modified by John McGraw, 7:05 PM 2/12/2003]
Iwas not aware that anyone still made one that hooked to your truck's brakes! I was told that they quit making them because there were problems with using them on anti-lock brakes, and almost all cars have them now. I used this type of controller for years and was amazed to find that I cou;ld not find one anymore. When I do a search for controllers I find only the inertia controllers and the time-based controllers. Who still makes such a controller?
:seeya
[Modified by John McGraw, 7:05 PM 2/12/2003]
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Georgia
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
I've had several in cab pendilum type (electric) and think I would prefer them to an on trailer pendilum. I like the fact that with the in cab I can reach down and manually grab a handfull of brakes if necessary.
I do have hydraulic surge brakes on several of my boat trailers and they work flawlessly, but I still like the in dash manual capability.
As a side question, do you guys that lend your trailers out know your insurance limitations? I'm sure it varies from state to state and company to company also, but in some cases there are GVW limits for automatic coverage under the vehicle it's being towed by. If somebody's got your trailer and there's a serious accident there could be grave financial consequences and the deep pockets theory that the lawyers so fondly practice now is firmly in play. Liability umbrellas are so cheap at about a hundred and change per million, it's almost imperative to have em now in this hyper-litigious society that we live in.
I do have hydraulic surge brakes on several of my boat trailers and they work flawlessly, but I still like the in dash manual capability.
As a side question, do you guys that lend your trailers out know your insurance limitations? I'm sure it varies from state to state and company to company also, but in some cases there are GVW limits for automatic coverage under the vehicle it's being towed by. If somebody's got your trailer and there's a serious accident there could be grave financial consequences and the deep pockets theory that the lawyers so fondly practice now is firmly in play. Liability umbrellas are so cheap at about a hundred and change per million, it's almost imperative to have em now in this hyper-litigious society that we live in.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Georgia
Re: Trailer brake controllers (Solidlifters)
I went and read the website, and their unit is available with an in cab remote for manual braking also. I like this system after reading about it. Does anybody know what they cost?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,575
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From: Tuttle OK
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
Sorry John, I should have been more clear. The current in cab controllers hook to your braking system electronically. They are very efficient and affordable (normally $100 or less). Almost all of the newer trucks are pre-wired for a very easy hook up (when you have a tow package).
I don't think anyone make the hydraulic type you speak of anymore, but the new electronic work just as well if not better.
Look over the following web page, they make a superior electronic controller.
http://www.tekonsha.com/tekcat/tekcat.html
Our parts guys sell the Voyager model 9035. I have used one for years and highly recommend it.
Lonny
[Modified by Avette4me, 8:00 AM 2/13/2003]
I don't think anyone make the hydraulic type you speak of anymore, but the new electronic work just as well if not better.
Look over the following web page, they make a superior electronic controller.
http://www.tekonsha.com/tekcat/tekcat.html
Our parts guys sell the Voyager model 9035. I have used one for years and highly recommend it.
Lonny
[Modified by Avette4me, 8:00 AM 2/13/2003]
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,359
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From: AUSTIN Tx
Re: Trailer brake controllers (Avette4me)
Thanks Lonny,
This the brand of controller that I will probabably end up buying. Thr prodigy controller is probably the most widely used controller on the market today.
All of their controllers are however, inertia type controllers as are most all the other controllers out there. The exception are the time-based controllers which simply apply a small ammount of braking when the pedal is depressed and then add more and more braking the longer the pedal is depressed. I have been advised to steer clear of this type of controller since they could not react properly to a panic braking situation.
:seeya
This the brand of controller that I will probabably end up buying. Thr prodigy controller is probably the most widely used controller on the market today.
All of their controllers are however, inertia type controllers as are most all the other controllers out there. The exception are the time-based controllers which simply apply a small ammount of braking when the pedal is depressed and then add more and more braking the longer the pedal is depressed. I have been advised to steer clear of this type of controller since they could not react properly to a panic braking situation.
:seeya
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,575
Likes: 1
From: Tuttle OK
Cruise-In VIII Veteran
Re: Trailer brake controllers (John McGraw)
Hey John,
You're right, they are referred to as intertia and do increase brake power as the tow vehicle slows. However, they also run off of the brake light wire as well. In that way, you can set them up so that they start to actuate the trailer brakes before the tow vehicle even starts to slow. Very safe and positive braking. I think you'll be satisfied and safe.
You're right, they are referred to as intertia and do increase brake power as the tow vehicle slows. However, they also run off of the brake light wire as well. In that way, you can set them up so that they start to actuate the trailer brakes before the tow vehicle even starts to slow. Very safe and positive braking. I think you'll be satisfied and safe.