Ooooooohhhhhhh Well now its so much clearer!! You weren't actually LYING, you just weren't telling the whole truth!!

 

YES I admit I dont know... I see that you too avoid some parts of the post. since your kit is the **** how come there was boost spike on his car too?? how about the blow by?? what about turbo smoke?? you avoided all that and just mentioned the meth. I might have not understood exactly how the other shops told me about the meth install, but I have never ran meth so how would I know!? why didnt you install a EXTERNAL IAT if you already knew that???

I am not pointing fingers at anyone. The meth failing is not your fault, but tuning the car to be 100% meth dependent (especially after it leaked TWICE) is your mistake! you should have done your research and picked up the right kit, made sure the fittings are ok, the lines are ok, and everything is fine. again forget about the meth and explain to me why the turbos smoked in his car and the other issues??

 

FREE intake manifold porting for any LS engine car that comes to Under Pressure for a dyno tune.

Search FAST intakes and Ported Intakes and see how many times my name pops up. I will be doing this work....free.

Meet some people and leave with 20-25rwhp more. Ported intakes are normally 200 + install....100% free.

 

I must say, you make it sound like this was his last resort to come down there.
I don't know him, I dont know you, but I would think the reason he chose UPP was for the same reason I chose them from over 100 miles a way.........
Because it seemed like a good deal.

 

I didnt choose them. I bought the car with the kit installed already

 

CK called me to correct the Meth car with the leaking nozzle was another car. I stand corrected. Your car is the one that had the tune altered by another tuner. I though meth was added and the timing was increased on your car by another tuner for that reason. What I dont understand is why the other tuner would increase timing if it didnt have meth.

The reason I am mixing the two is because you brought up your friend's car and CK relays these things to me and sometimes it tough to keep track of. Jassim (black Vette) sold to you with the kit already on it. My statement about your car smoking and having issue was due to timing. Timing being turned up is a cause for detonation. I dont have any record for your friend's car because I didnt tune it. Your car I have seen both tunes.

Anyway, Im not going to continue posting. It wasnt my intention to disrespect to you or anyone else but rather wanted it known that the tune on your car was altered by another tuner.

I dont know the story about anyone else posting in this thread or what they have to do with the topic.

If anyone wants help with what they have going on with their car, I'll help if I can.

 

I'm told in this last phone call that you too bought a kit and will reiterate that if there is anything I can help with, I will. I dont have anything to do with the kit sales directly, nor am I employed at the shop, but Im a forum member who is willing to help. Im sorry for any confusion.

PM if you want to discuss anything.

 

good I am glad we got that cleared up. I was wondering if you had me mixed up with someone else... because I am really a nice guy even when it comes to racing and car ****.

and I too dont mean disrespect to anyone. really I am probably the last guy you would want to listen to. I just post my opinion, they might be right or wrong...

I would like to clear this again.. I never said anything but good about UPP's customer service.. their kit?? not really I dont like it AGAIN because of my issues and what my friend went through and because of the parts used. some of it is good some are not.

Thanks for the offer. will take you up on that if I needed any help

 

Parts can be upgraded. Complaining about who makes a turbo is irrelevant if the part in question is operating correctly. Is the oil pump pumpng oil? Yes. Is the intercooler keeping IATs low just like the Sc kits? Yes. Is the actual turbo on your car making boost? If yes, complaining that the turbos arent good is somewhat silly. BB may spool faster but the thrust bearing turbos from what I see are making so much TQ down low that it cant hook so how does 200rpm make a difference? Supercharged cars are seeing max TQ at 4800rpm and its 500rwtq on a 600rwhp build. Turbos are 600HP cars and seeing over 600rwtq in the 3000's.

Yes all TT kits are a really tight fit. When a kit is mocked up the variances car to car will dictate that some pipes will need slight alterations but its no difference than the guy who gets a tweaked supercharger bracket and cant figure out why he is throwing belts. I've run the spectrum of fitment issues and belt issues on all kits.

If a car blew up from too much boost, any TT kit can do that. If your car blew up from too much timing, thats not the kit. If your friends car blew up from a failed meth kit, thats not the TT kit either. I had a mega-modded car and every time I drove that car, I looked under the hood. I checked fuel lines to the rails and regulator, all my meth lines, I checked for power to my secondary fuel system (LED on my gauge pod), and all my gauges for a/f ratio (yes a real wideband), fuel pressure, boost pressure, ect. I would never have been driving a car for any time with a nozzle off the line. My wideband would have noted it. If you approach Snow performance they will tell you its your issue to verify the parts are working. You tell them a nozzle failed they will give you a new one.

Its not a stock honda accord and no one with any real mods should think getting into real boost can be driven that casually that you wouldnt notice these things. You live and learn.

If you're still having an issue with the kit, then clarify it. The pipes are lifetime warranty if not altered. If a turbo is making boost, its working. I just dont get the extended posting on not liking something with it if you cant convey whats wrong. If its making boost and not leaking, whats wrong? Is it leaking? Where? At a weld? A coupler? If its just that you know more expensive metal and turbos exist, that again isnt about it working or not. Anything else its fixable.

The biggest concern I have is crazy people getting these installed at the shop and leaving with 600rwtq on runflats.

PM me if you want to talk. Most of what I do is always free.

 

Thank you and I appreciate the offer, but I have already began taking the kit off my car.

 

Walhan many times now you keep saying you don't like, but you don't know enough. And that's just it, you don't know enough. Yet instead of asking the question, "Hey how come you didn't install the meth before the MAF" , or "Hey why didn't you do an external IAT", you just jump on here and start bashing saying "If you were a good tuner...." You don't ask questions, you listen to **** from other people and make opinions (no matter how wrong they may be), based off of that, and needlessly slander me.

So here, let me break it down for you,

YOUR CAR.

When Jassim brought your car in, we installed the kit, and everything was fine. Yes, we did run into some issues, to be expected with a new kit, especially with as many changes as we were making at the time to improve the kit, and as SPIN pointed out this is even normal with some of the SC kits and belt alignment. There were some fitment issues with the pipes where they started rubbing and had to be adjusted (which we did). Problem resolved. He had some electrical issues, resolved. We stopped tuning the car where we did because we started to notice alot of blow by. Not because of the tuning, because we tune for 0 knock. I looked at his map when it came in, and the timing curve on that looked like a 3yr old drew it. With not knowing the exact condition of the engine before, and the high compression, we stopped where we did as I was not trying to push it. Now the blow by in itself is a problem for the turbo engines, it will cause them to smoke. Pressure in the crank case unseats the rings and can be an oil burning issue. I told him this and that he needed a crank vent/oil catch can system. This is often normal, especially with higher boost. This never happened, nor was it addressed. Instead it was written off that the "turbos are cheap". Next he took it to his tuner, who jacked up the timing again. When we tuned it, we were already close to knock because of the compression, even with the E85. And yes, the timing was extremely low, but that's all it would take. Then it gets jacked up, destroys the ring lands, and goes really slow, and burns even more oil. Naturally all of this gets blamed on the turbo kit. Nobody cares to look at anything else, it's that damn turbo! And what's worse is you believe this **** and then come on here and regurgitate it! If it's still smoking now, you may still have other issues. You may have issues with the turbo. But the fact is that you are completely blind to the situation and oblivious to the problems, you just want to jump up and point fingers that it's the turbo without actually knowing anything. Do the turbos have shaft play? If so, send them in, they're warrantied for a reason. If not, then it isn't the turbos that have a problem! If you actually understood how turbos worked you would know this. But why bother finding out, it's so much easier to jump on your local forum and just bash isnt' it!
Let me not forget the WG, incase you decided to point that out too, I'm trying to cover ALL the issues you posted about. Yes, there were WG issues. Actually it wasn't even just the WG, it was a combination. We choose 6psi gates, because for tuning this is much easier and better. Rather than putting your car on the dyno and just going for the gusto 14psi, we start low and slow. Work up the boost slowly until we get it where we want. Well the problem with the 6psi wg, is the spring is so weak, and with the back pressure from the LS engines, it pushes the gates open too soon. (hence when we found this out on you car we discontinued these on the LS platforms, and remember we replaced them completely for you for FREE). Now we put the cheap boost controller on there to up the boost where we wanted, which these work fine on all the imports that we use them on. But the imports generally aren't making up 10+ psi difference, and they don't have quite the back pressure on the WG that we're trying to overcome. This is what created the issue on yours, we had to max out the BC, and it seems occasionally the BB inside would get stuck and cause an over-boost condition. Now remember Jassim saying the car felt slower when it did that? That's because it was. In all my tunes, anything I can't see (higher boost, lower altitude, etc), anything above the columns I'm tuning we pull extra timing, and push extra fuel, just to keep it safe in case it ever does reach into that zone. Again though, we remedied the problem. This is no different that the SC guys. Look at all the guys going for higher HP/boost on those. They run into problems too, and have to find a work around for them. Why do you think there's 8 rib kits? Cog drives?... People have found a fix, just the same as we have with the WG. Now if you're having issues now with achieving higher boost, that's because you're still overcoming the spring tension on the WG with the back pressure. Larger AR turbine will help with this (but then you loose the spool characteristics), or a better boost controller, one that uses BOTH ports on the WG, that's actually why they're there! The top port overcomes the back pressure trying to push it open. But again, instead of asking questions and trying to learn anything, it's much easier to listen to someone else, blame the kit, and jump on the forum and say "well just wait till you try for higher boost, you'll see what I mean!"... Heaven forbid you should actually know what you're talking about, just slander, it's way easier!


AB's Car.
Yes AB had issues with the meth system, and yes Snow sucks, we found this out with his car. Up until them we'd never seen any issues with them or their kits. Which is why we decided to use them (and the fact that we're supporting another local business). Again, you jump on here and bash me for not spraying in front of the IAT, didn't bother to ask why.... We used meth as added for safety, just to boost the octane, however once you tune for it, it MUST be on there. Meaning I could have tuned the car and probably got the 600hp without the meth, but on a really hot day, maybe a bad tank of gas, he might be over the detonation threshold. If he's got the meth there and it's working properly then he would be PLENTY fine. We choose 100% meth, why? Because I've tested (actually on the first C6) the differences in our kit with meth. 50/50, 60/40, 70/30, 20/80, and finally 100%. ANY time we mixed water in, it actually seemed to increase the detonation because the IAT's weren't hot enough to fully evaporate the water. Water is GREAT for cooling IAT's, but it doesn't burn, and it doesn't compress. But if you don't have the heat there to begin with, it's not absorbing any heat, staying semi liquid form, and just increasing the compression, and causing detonation. 50/50 works great on BD blower cars, but not as well on turbo cars. That being the case, we run 100% meth. Now if you run 100% meth, the down side to that is it's so much extra actual fuel (remember water isn't a fuel) that you have to displace some of the regular fuel, ie you have to lean the tune out for it. Works great when the meth works... Now we didn't spray it before the MAF, cause that's just plain wrong. We didn't pull out the IAT sensor and spray before that because as I said before that too has it's down sides. You spray before that, the ECU pics up a drop in IAT and adds timing....and generally a little fuel. Well we're already spraying the fuel, so I don't want that, and I wasn't trying to max out the timing or run the ragged boarder just because we have meth, so I didn't really want to add timing either. Again the meth was a safety net, not trying to go apeshit and blow anything up. I could set it up differently in the ECU to do different things, I could even set it up to pull fuel when it sensed the presence of meth. But then again here in CO where it does get to freezing, the ecu would see this an think the meth was actually spraying, start adding timing and puling gobs of fuel...See, that won't work either. No matter what you do there are up's and downs. There are trade offs, no free lunch, and that's just how it is. You could got E85, but then you lose gas milage, and there aren't enough gas stations to make a road trip....see, trade offs. For AB's setup, that's exactly why we choose to do what we did. But again, instead of asking, you publicly come on here and go blast mode, "if you were a good tuner...." yet you don't know the whole story, you don't know the in's and out's, all you know is what you overheard someone else say, and because someone said something, and AB's car is broke, that suddenly makes you a pro! Everyone has their own way of tuning, and own ideas of what should be done, this is what I chose and why. Yes, the IAT could have prevented this problem, but it also could have created others. As I said before, I'm not a big fan of meth systems to begin with, for this exact reason, but they do have their place, and when the work they work. Same as BAP's, they work....but they also over drive the fuel pump. Give/take, up/down, it's everywhere.

SU, I'm sorry if you feel like I've been deceptive, but I too have a right to protect my resources. But I never once lied to you. I eluded that they were made "over seas", but WTF difference does it make what country they're made in? Would have slept more soundly at night if I actually came out and said "China" instead of "Overseas"? No! Hell, I gave you the name of the company that makes them (yes I must have misspelled it), you could have looked them up then just as you did now. I didn't want to say "Yes they're made in china", as they would completely be associated with the cheap **** on ebay that everyone is bashing, when infact the quality standards are FAR above those. Seriously try to explain to them, "It's made in china, but it's not a Chinese turbo". Now enough of them get out there, still ZERO failures (but I"m sure eventually we'll see one, as does everyone), yea, they're made by a reputable company in China. Many others can back it up now, and have proof that this isn't some Ebay China crap...

As far as your car goes, I've tried everything under the sun to help you with it, you just won't accept it. You don't communicate when you have an issue, other than coming on here. You never told me there was an issue with the WG, you just replaced them. You never told me there was an issue with the oil lines, you just re modified the whole system. You've never presented me with "here this is broken, and this is why my turbo's don't spool" problem, otherwise what ever the issue is, I'd be more than happy to resolve it for you! But not only that, I've gone above and beyond that to try to come help you with this, and you still never took advantage of that. I never once claimed that we are perfect, that we won't have mistakes, that sometimes the customer might get a bad part...Because this is sometimes things that I can't control. All I can do is be here to make it right on this end, to which I have offered above and beyond "customer service" to you to help you get this straight. But again it's still easier to just point a finger at the kit say it's bad (when BTW let me remind you, you've never found what the actual problem is, so you really don't even know for sure 100% that it's the kit), and come on here and bash... Instead of communicating "hey I"m having a problem with this and this", you just go out pissed off and buy new parts. Instead of actually taking me up on my many offers to help you figure out what the problem was and FIX it, you would rather bad mouth the kit....because it's easier....When again...you're still not even sure what the problem is, just that your car isn't boosting. This is again why I wanted to see this thing so badly. If it was something you did, I could point it out to you, learn from it, and then maybe you'd stop with the hateful feelings online. If it's something actually wrong with the kit, I could learn what needs to be accounted for, and make sure we don't have issues like this in the future.

 

And AGAIN, you're NOT listening!!

You sound like a broken record when you go on about how you have done everything in your power to help me!!
I have already said, ever since we had the issues with you not coming up last summer, I have not said ONE word about you not being willing to help!!

It does not matter if you could make the kit run awesome today, tomorrow, or next year!! I do not want the kit on my car as I have no faith in it anymore and I do not like the quality of it!!!

Its also not that I "feel" you have been deceptive. You have been deceptive, plain and simple!! I already said it would not have made a difference to me if you said they were made in China.
The point is that I said before in another post. Just be up front and sell the kit as exactly what it is...."A budget turbo kit". Dont try to compare it to other large name brands and say the turbos are "just like" precisions, etc... Because they are NOT.
Don't market it as if its a $10k kit that is selling for way less than its worth.

The turbos are only worth $400 retail for both!! Are you telling me, that the rest of kit is worth almost $4k? Not to me, its not.

 

I'm sorry, but after seeing this, I just can't take you seriously.

I don't know why I feel a need to chime in here, but I will. You seem to post a LOT of threads about problems with EVERY car and EVERY build you've got going on. Personally, I think the issue(s) lies with you and the people touching your car. My Z06 was completely overhauled... Fuel system, drivetrain, engine, addition of turbo kit, electronics, meth... This was done 90% by one guy in his back yard pole barn. The rest, and the tune, was done by me. Aside from the stock transmission and torque tube bearings dying from the torque, everything has been rock solid. Yes, there were extremely minor trouble shooting things like a wire with a bad connection, but it was all taken care of easily. This stuff is not rocket science, and because of that, I'm genuinely convinced that you have the wrong people involved in what you're trying to do (and I'm not insinuating that UPP is considered in that group of wrong).

Please note that I have no affiliation with UPP. I have experience with their kit though. I agree that you get what you pay for. I'd pay over $12,000 again for my TTix kit. That said, the UPP kit I'm familiar with was installed by a local kid and his buddy on a stock C6 without issue. I tuned it, and it runs just fine for a stock LS2 on 6psi. No smoking, no boost spikes, and no problems. A lot of times, people have absolutely no idea how to route or hook things up. Is it possible that fittings leak? Sure. I blew a line off my wastegate one night. It happens. But issues like boost spikes or creep are all too often related to vacuum line configuration, which apparently is a mystery to almost everyone. Simple things like that tend to make people blame an entire kit for being junk. What I'm getting at is small details make a big difference, and before putting something down, you'd better make damn sure everything on your end is right. I wouldn't trust the instructions with a turbo kit as far as I could throw them, but I am lucky enough to know what I'm doing.




The bashing is old. The meth before MAF thing just really made my jaw drop though.

 

Thanks again for the offer. will def PM you if I needed anything. Thanks for your informative post.


the problem is I listen to some Big vendors here that have multiple 1000+ corvettes. I already emailed 2 that I talked to a while back when we had the problem on AB's vette who explained to me how to setup the meth and still have it safe if it failed. one guy said he doesnt want to get involved which I totally understand. hopefully the other one will. because it seems like you guys are getting me on that wrong statement I posted. also it looks like SpinMonster knows what I was talking about and he also said he set meth for cooling and if it fails the car will run fine, but he wasnt the one that tuned AB's vette so I am guessing you did it differently.

now you left the part why AB's car had boost spike and why the turbos smoked in his car too!? his wasnt as bad as mine but they did! and he didnt have a boost controller and was only running off the waste-gate I believe? I might be wrong on this but I am 95% sure he didnt have a boost controller, so not sure why he will have boost spike. also can you please explain to me why he had blow by too?? you say I always bash you. this time I am asking you and really hope I would understand whats going on and hopefully gain some knowledge.

Thanks for your time and sorry if I made you feel like I am bashing you. I guess I was, but I will stop saying anything about your kit.

 

 

Walhan, you're still not getting it! The problem isn't your car, its your insulting comments when you really don't know what you're talking about.

And SU, yes i am listening. You too are bashing the kit because it "doesn't boost" yet you too cannot give a clear answer as to what EXACTLY the problem is. Same with the WG you replaced, "oh they're cheap" cause the leaked.... Did you bother adjusting them? Did you even know they have an adjustment? NO. Because you didn't bother to ask, nor accept help. Same as now, you wont take help, but because YOU cannot figure out the problem you dismiss it and write it off as a bad kit. My issue again is not your car, its you slandering when in all honesty you still don't really know what the hell the problem is. But sense you cant figure it out.... It must be the kit.

 

I am done arguing with you CK.

I will swallow my $5k+ lesson, learn from it and move forward.

 

What options take that kit price over 12K?

What do the IAT's reach when you scan the car?

 

Upgrading to the Precision 6265s with 0.82 housings, the Stage X intercooler, 3" downpipes, ceramic coating, and the fact they cast their own manifolds that allow the turbos to gravity drain (that was big for me).

As far as IATs... Hot. 70+ over ambient after you're in it for a little bit. Doesn't bother me though because it is tuned around it, and I run meth. If I had the big boy intercooler, those IATs would be a lot lower. Still makes 900-1000hp without pushing it though.

 

Yes you are.