I am working on a plan of attack on getting my 66 BB back together. There will be tons of body work to do and this is where I am stuck. Right now the body is just sitting on the frame which is completly stripped down of all its parts. I have been trying to get a good answer as to weather I need to assemble the frame before I do the body work. The car needs a complete front clip which I already have but it is all pieces not a single unit. I have been warned that if I don't put the suspension and motor and trans on the frame first my body panels won't line up properly once it gets complety assembeled. Is this fact or fiction?

 

GM dropped the body on a completed frame and drivetrain at the factory. My gut feel is that doing it that way again might ensure the best fit as you piece the body back together. The frames on these cars are not the most rigid things ever built, and I know from personal experience on my current project that things can indeed move a lot between on stands/unloaded to on wheels. My door gap on the driver's side closed up 1/8 inch at the top!

 

Thank you Markids77!! After reading your reply I checked out some of your other replies to different questions and I found them to be very informative. It also lead me to some other concerns, one being exposed bare fiberglass. My car was stripped of all its paint some 30 years ago (long story there) I see in one of your replies where this may be a problem. I have been reading as much as I can on these forums gathering as much info as I can for the last month. With your reply it at least gives me a starting point. I am going to be needing a ton of advise over the next few years. So again thank you for help on my first step.

Bob

 

There are some really knowledgeable people here, welcome to the forum and ask away when you want opinions!

 

bobwoodkat,
For what it is worth. I WOULD NOT install the front clip fiberglass components until you have at least installed the suspension and allow the car to settle to ride height. Having the engine and transmission in would also me a great benefit...due to the weight. IT is NOT REQUIRED that you do it that way...but it will be easier...due to the amount of effort in correctly supporting the frame due to no suspension being on it. I always install front end clips and components when the car is assembled and sitting on the ground as it would be normally. Less chance for something moving and causing a part installation to change.

Also...seeing how I have completed numerous Corvettes over the years....like many others here on the forum. I would HIGHLY recommend that you CAREFULLY inspect all of your body to frame aluminum spacers. Due to the aluminum and steel coming in contact...the aluminum spacer can begin to disintegrate...and crumble away. Thus causing a MAJOR MALFUNCTION and PROBLEMS when the car is completed and looking beautiful. I would also...and this is a big issue if left alone... inspect the condition of your brake lines and fuel supply line. Depending on the history of the where-abouts of where your car has been...if there is any question about there integrity...I would replace them...which may/will require removing the body from the frame ( for at least the fuel line). Because if you don't...then it can easily become a "WOULDA,COULDA, SHOULDA" event. And don't "FREAK OUT"...by the thought of doing a body off for these lines to be replaced. It is not really that hard...but does take a bit of time and attention to detail.

It has EVERYTHING to do with making sure that your foundation (frame) is solid. Like 'markids77" mentioned. The frames are not the most rigid. So if the integrity of the steel is compromised ( heavy pitted rust and scale)..and or those components that are hard to get to when the body is on the frame are compromised...the next step would be to make sure that these parts are serviced. When I get cars like yours into my shop. I am not so concerned about the body...the first thing I do is climb under it and start looking at it very carefully.

"DUB"

 

Thanks Dub for the guidance. Right now I am trying to get a plan of attack together and from what you and Markid77 have posted it gives me my starting point. To fill you in on where things stand as of now I purchased this car about 30 years ago. It needed some front end body work. At the time I had a great place to work on and I decided I was going to do a frame up restoration. I took the car completely apart and had the frame dipped and I primed it to be shot in Emron. The frame was solid except for a few small pin holes by the kick up which I cut out and welded in a patch. Right now the body is just sitting on the frame not even bolted down; it has been that way since I left it 30 years ago.

Right now I am in the process of gathering up all the parts and getting them into my garage so I can take inventory. I asked about the frame because I was figuring on doing the body work first since I know I have all the pieces. I purchased them from GM and they are still in the GM boxes. Now that I have an answer on the frame and drive train I can proceed.

My thoughts now are to assemble the frame completely with the parts I have on hand. Compile a list of any parts needing to be replaced as it goes together. Then I will do all the body work, at that point I will be posting a lot of questions since I have never done any body work. Nuts and bolts I understand but a fiberglass body is a completely different animal. I have lots to learn there!!

Thanks again for everyone’s help,
Bob

 

As long as you know that the frame and brake/fuel lines are in very good condition. Then doing what you plan to do appears to be correct ....in my opinion.

One other issue...which can become a BIG issue later. Knowing that you have had this car apart for numerous years. When you dis-assembled it. By chance did you keep track of the shims that are/were used at the upper control arm mounting points????? The reason I am mentioning it is because...due to age and design . The frame can collapse inwards at these points. When it does this. When the car is aligned. Shims are removed to get the cars camber/caster setting correct again. IF the frame "collapses" in to the point where there are NO SHIMS...then you can no longer have the car aligned.

The repair for this can be done two ways. One is buying the off-set shaft for the upper control arm and install it which can give you a little but more time and have the car aligned (depending on how bad off it is). And the second way is to have the frame put on a frame machine and have these upper control mount areas pulled outwards...while pushing up on the underside of the cradle. This will get the frame back correct and allow shims to be re-installed for future alignments. The use of the aftermarket "spreader-bar" can hold this adjustment...but it alone by itself...does not have the ability to spread this area apart so the car can be aligned. The reason I am mentioning this ...is that it would SUCK if you find that you need to have a repair done for an alignment once the car is all painted and looking beautiful. And with knowing you have a big block in it...this added weight can definitely cause the engine cradle to collapse.... because it occurs on the small block cars also. I do not have the measurement between these to mount locations...so you can measure it out and see if you have a problem...before you go and install everything...thinking that everything is OK. And I know that if you do have an issue. You will need to get the car able to roll so it can be placed on a frame machine. Hopefully you do not have an issue...but from what I have experienced...it occurs more times than I would like to encounter when working on cars like yours.

"DUB"

 

Thanks Dub, I have never heard of that before tonight so I did some reasearch and found a pretty cool website. http://lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vettetech.html I am pretty sure that there were shims in the control arms because if there were not any I would have found that to be strange. Whenever i find something that I don't understand such as no shim I have to know the answer. It will be one of the first things I will check when I get all my parts laid out. It has been to long to remember but I would think I would have taped and marked each set as to location. But I was much younger and not so wise back then so who knows.

Bob

 

Last but not least. (maybe). Hopefully you marked and labeled the shims that were used between the body and the frame.

"DUB"

 

I have all the body bolts, washers and shims all marked. I also checked out the frame and it looks good. Just shy of 32-7/8 across the forward most part of the frame and I also cross measured the studs for the control arms and they are square. I would think if it had collasped at all it would be out of square and the forward part of the frame would have moved inward. The frame specs say it should be 32.80 across that point.

 

It is good in a way that the nose is off the car because that should have minimised any "sag" which can occur if these bodies sit for long periods not supported squarely on the frame mounts. I hope the doors have been on it all this time since they can help with keeping things from twisting or bending. Is this a coupe or convertible BTW???

If you have yet to do so, please don't move your tub from the frame until you have constructed a body dolly to keep things square and level as you work on the frame and suspension. If the doors are on, do not attempt to open them now... get the body supported and allow some time for the glass to "settle" awhile. If the doors are off, put the tub on the dolly and do not install the doors until a month or more has passed. I would then see if they still fit the openings; if so getting them bolted back on will help.

Search in the C2 section here for plans for a dolly, or perhaps another member is finished with one as his/her resto progresses and you can get an "experienced" piece reasonably, and close to your home.

 

It is a convertible, as for the doors they are sitting in the opening but not bolted. The body itself is sitting on its frame without the shims and has been on there since life got in the way all those years ago. The frame is losely bolted to a steel dolly I made to fit the frame. The steel frame was originaly my body dolly back then and I think I have all the pieces to convert it back to a body dolly. I had built it copying all the frame mount locations.

This does have me thinking though, I better get the doors lined up straight before I even attempt any body work. Am I thinking right on that? What are yours and Dubs ( I noticed you guys often agree on these things) thoughts on me bolting the body to the frame using the original shims then bolting the doors back on before I do a body lift? That would just give me a NEW STARTING POINT. I see I have lots to learn on a whole lot issues I never even thought about.

I really didn't want to think much about the body until I get the frame mocked up. But now it seems I better make sure I handle the body lift and storage correctly before I even think about any frame assembly. I really appreciate all the advise.
Bob

 

Whatever you can do to maximize the stiffness of the body before you move it to the dolly will be a good thing. Especially since there's no roof structure to help keep things square. However, you do not want to force the issue here as you might break something if the tub has twisted while it sat. Set down on either the frame, or on a frame replicate dolly with slight tension on the mount bolts (checked periodically and tweaked gently as it moves) ...should... settle back to square. If the doors bolt up and close properly now count your blessings and get it level and safe. If not, plan B. Patience is a virtue here, if it's twisted it took years to get that way, it will not relax overnight.

 

???? I am getting lost here ??????

Bob,
If I have been following the text correctly. Your factory frame is on a steel dolly....with the body on the factory frame and it is not bolted down...correct???

In one of your recent comments...you mentioned doing a "body lift". Why??? You had mentioned that you had already addressed the frame and it has been shot with paint and ready to do...so-to-speak....accept for re-assembly. Because reinstalling new spacers and shims in the body to frame attachment points does not require a full lift on the body. It can be done from one side to the other by carefully tilting it up to gain access to the areas where the spacers and shim need to go.

IF you plan on pulling the body off. One bit of advice it to fabricate a metal brace...that can bolt well to your upper door hinge....and then go over and bolt to where your door striker area is. This metal brace will keep the hinge post and striker jamb area from moving apart when the body is lifted. I have lifted several convertible corvettes this way and it hold things very well...as long as your brace is made very well and bolted TIGHT to the hinge (where the door bolts) in two or more places in the hinge. And the plate that bolts to your striker area must be secured well and have some strength to it also. The "fixture" or brace I made is "somewhat" adjustable...due to no two corvettes are exactly the same....but once installed...it stout.

So...I do not know if you still need to install fuel lines, brake lines ans such and need to pull the body...or if those parts have already been installed.

"DUB"

 

I see two good reasons to lift the body... the frame has been in storage for 30 years and should be inspected closely for deterioration of previous work, and freshened as required. The body is also stripped bare... not a desired state if you're going to be rebuilding the suspension and installing new brakes, engine, transmission etc. It should be on a rack safely away from oils, grease and slipping wrenches until the frame is ready to accept it again.

 

Yes, Dub you are correct!! The reason for the body lift is just as Markid77 says, its been 30 years and the frame is not painted it is just in primer (I don't remember what primer it was but it is the primer that was used for Emron) I never got to the accual painting of the frame. After thinking about it for a day though, There is no reason to do a body lift at this point. As for Markid77 concerns about oils and grease that is just a matter of keeping the body covered up while I hang the suspension and drop in the motor and trans. There is so much dust on the body it would act just like oil dry..LOL

So here is my plan;
1.Get the body bolted to frame using the correct amout of shims at each mount point bringing all bolts up snug not tight.
2.Get her off the roling cart and on jack stands.
3.Hang the front suspension.
4.Install the rear and suspension.
5.Drop in motor and trans.
6.Put on the wheels and tires.
7.Take out the jack stands and let her sit on the floor for the first time in 30 years.
8.Check to see if the body has settled right.( I will check and tighten bolts as need be through steps 2 to 6)
9.Hang the doors ( provided the body is sitting on the frame right)
10.Take lots of pictures
11.Start the scary part of this build (the bodywork)

Once the body work is finished the body will need to be lifted so that I can finsh the frame properly. But that is a LONG way off so I will stick to my first 11 steps for now. I hope you guys don't get sick of me before the bodywork part because that is where I am really going to need a ton of help.
Thank you for all the help on this, it makes this far less stressful having someone to hash over things.

Bob

 

Why mock the car up, only to disassemble it and do it all again, possibly disturbing some of the repairs to the body? Finish the frame, finalize the brakes, fuel system, suspension and drivetrain. Wrap the whole shebang in Saran wrap and mount the tub, then do the bodywork. Remove the completed engine and transmission after the tub is solidly mounted if you wish, but building the entire vehicle twice seems counterproductive to me.

 

$$$$$$$$$$ I have all the body parts so buying supplies won't be that big of a hit. I can get most of my supplies through a friend of mine at a good price. Whereas doing the frame is where I know its going to cost a ton. I can put the frame back together with the original parts and not worry about any of the parts I need to do it right. Money won't be a issue in about 12-18 months. So I figure it is going to take a rookie like me at least that long to get the body done.

 

For what it is worth.... and I DO UNDERSTAND about the $$$$ thing. But I have to agree with markids77 on this one. And I know it is your choice...but doing all the body work and then pulling the body again is a potential problem waiting to happen.

Depending on what you might need for the frame to get it to the point where the body can be installed and shimmed so it would not need to come back off is something I would work towards. Buying new brake and fuel lines are not that much and those two are at least the two major components that should be investigated and replaced if in question. As for many of the other components...they can be installed after the body is down. Now this is also if the body gussets plates that are riveted to the floor pan and other areas are needing to be serviced/replaced. The I would do this also BEFORE I dropped the body down for the final assembly. Also checking your applied coating that is on the frame.

TRUST ME when I write this. You are going to be so involved ( and so are we) in the body repair aspects of this resto....that why would you even chance damaging your work....that you worked hard on getting right....due to a procedure that was not done when it should be done...(my opinion). It is "kinda" like having ALL the materials to build you an awesome house...but you ran out of $$$ ( for the time being) ...and could NOT afford to dig a footer and pour concrete or lay any piping and such...and chose to do it after you framed in your house....when the $$$ can back around. I KNOW it is NOT the same...but from someone who HATES to lift off a body that is perfect...you are asking for "Murphy's Law" to come a knocking at you door.

Do as you need to do...this is only advice/personal and professional suggestions... and like I have written many times here on the forum...PATIENCE is PARAMOUNT when doing something like this...especially if you want it RIGHT when it is completed.

"DUB"

 

Even if you have to sandblast the frame and suspension components again and recoat, purchasing the materials to recoat the frame, do the brake and fuel lines, and rebuild/rebush the front and rear suspension will not greatly exceed the materials cost to bond a new front clip on, and "true up" the rest of the body then get it in a protective primer. Not nearly as much labor either, and never needs doing again. Getting one of these cars back in road ready condition is too much work and expense to do any step more than once if it can be avoided.

This of course assumes your plan is to restore the stock suspension and drivetrain, not go all restomod with rack and pinion, tubular a-arms, offset trailing arms and a 572...please tell me that's not your intent?