Getting ready for paint
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
Getting ready for paint
Hi Guys
I'm in the middle of repainting my 75.
I've almost completely stripped the paint and am looking for the best way to lay down some color.
I've stripped the paint off with a razor blade and have the hood and a fender sanded down with 40 grit.
There are several coats of non factory stuff here and there on the body so we've decided to start from scratch.
I have an old retired paint and body guy leading the way on this project but with the new paints out there I want to make sure everything goes well.
The color I've chosen is Le mans Blue Metallic Paint code, WA-933L.
What gives the deepest shine and how do you apply it?
Which primer is best and all that stuff.
Here are the pictures so far.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...oster/Hood.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ster/trunk.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ter/75side.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...edfront34s.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...dedrear34s.jpg
I want to have it primed on Monday the 3rd and painted on the 6th.
Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.
One more thing how much paint and how many coats is reasonable.
Same with the clear. How many coats if any?
Thank You
Ralph
I'm in the middle of repainting my 75.
I've almost completely stripped the paint and am looking for the best way to lay down some color.
I've stripped the paint off with a razor blade and have the hood and a fender sanded down with 40 grit.
There are several coats of non factory stuff here and there on the body so we've decided to start from scratch.
I have an old retired paint and body guy leading the way on this project but with the new paints out there I want to make sure everything goes well.
The color I've chosen is Le mans Blue Metallic Paint code, WA-933L.
What gives the deepest shine and how do you apply it?
Which primer is best and all that stuff.
Here are the pictures so far.
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...oster/Hood.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ster/trunk.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...ter/75side.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...edfront34s.jpg
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/...dedrear34s.jpg
I want to have it primed on Monday the 3rd and painted on the 6th.
Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.
One more thing how much paint and how many coats is reasonable.
Same with the clear. How many coats if any?
Thank You
Ralph
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
I've been working on it for 2 weeks.
We moved it into the shop and started sanding on it today with a DA and 40 grit.
We got the hood and a fender finished in 3 hours.
So at that rate 21 hours to do the rest of the car seems doable.
Of course I'm not a paint and body guy.
It is pretty well stripped down so the hidden things are pretty much in the open now. So just maybe if I can keep Tim going just maybe 3 days is doable.
Ralph
We moved it into the shop and started sanding on it today with a DA and 40 grit.
We got the hood and a fender finished in 3 hours.
So at that rate 21 hours to do the rest of the car seems doable.
Of course I'm not a paint and body guy.
It is pretty well stripped down so the hidden things are pretty much in the open now. So just maybe if I can keep Tim going just maybe 3 days is doable.
Ralph
Last edited by Ralphbf; Oct 2, 2011 at 02:57 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,930
Likes: 15
From: Calgary Alberta
If you are that concerned about it looking perfect when it is finished, then you should not be putting a deadline on the end result - you're setting yourself up for failure. Its good to give yourself an idea of what you want to accomplish by the end of each day, setting goals for yourself. I do this for a living now, and know enough that if you want it done right, it takes a lot longer than 3 weeks to prep an entire vehicle for paint which needs to be "perfect".
All the high end restorations I have done have been stripped, bodywork and filler done, then slicksanded. Everything is blocked perfectly straight, with 2 foot durablocks, 120 grit then 180 grit. I just blocked two fenders and a trunk lid last week for a '67 mustang, and that took me a total of 8 hours, just to block the slick sand.
Once its in 180 grit, everything is given three coats of high build primer, and it is blocked again with 2 foot durablocks. Usually 320 grit, then 400 grit. Everything is then finished with 600 grit, prior to paint.
Last edited by stinger12; Oct 2, 2011 at 07:24 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,709
Likes: 3
From: Savannah GA
Filling 40 grit sand scratches with a sprayable surfacer is not a recommended practice. What does your retired advisor recommend you do next? I think you are in for at least a month's work yet, not a week's. Then another week to "perfect" the finished paint.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
The 40 is to get through the primers.
It looks like it has 3 coats of primer on her.
Some of it was badly cracked and needed to be taken down.
The auto body guy has been out for two days now.
He's got a stone in his saliva gland. Kind of like a kidney stone and his face is swollen almost past his ear.
I'm not sure what grit paper he's planning on using but I'll show him this post to make sure were talking apples and apples here.
Again what filler do you recommend? I've heard Bondo brand shrinks? Tim has just been feathering out the little imperfections.
And what primer and paint to get the best depth to the paint?
Thanks a lot guys.
Ralph
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,709
Likes: 3
From: Savannah GA
What needs filling? If you intend to update the body seams, grind out as much of the factory glue as possible and laminate them with epoxy resin and non-woven mat. You can use the same products to correct panel gaps, and panel fits... like if your door is a bit different in contour than the rear quarter panel. If you need a polyester "Bondo" for minor surface irregularities I like Evercoat products... I use their "lightweight", some here like the "Rage" line.
Primers and topcoats are quite a personal preference type of thing. I like an all epoxy undercoat, Zwede uses PPG K36... who's prepping the car and what do they recommend? You'll get the best finish using whatever your painter is most comfortable spraying... our experiences mean nothing since we won't be applying the finish.
Primers and topcoats are quite a personal preference type of thing. I like an all epoxy undercoat, Zwede uses PPG K36... who's prepping the car and what do they recommend? You'll get the best finish using whatever your painter is most comfortable spraying... our experiences mean nothing since we won't be applying the finish.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
For seams it depends on how serious you want to get. If you're after perfection there's only one way: Grind out all the filler and build it back up with resin & mat.
On my '71 we did the whole car in 80 grit before primer. As for primer, everyone has their favorite. We used PPG K36 (urethane 2K). The K36 was wet sanded 220, then 320 and finally 400. Scotchbrite before base took the finish to about 600 grit.
As for gaps: Any edge should be built with resin & mat for strength. You can level panel to to panel with dynaglass.
On my '71 we did the whole car in 80 grit before primer. As for primer, everyone has their favorite. We used PPG K36 (urethane 2K). The K36 was wet sanded 220, then 320 and finally 400. Scotchbrite before base took the finish to about 600 grit.
As for gaps: Any edge should be built with resin & mat for strength. You can level panel to to panel with dynaglass.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,709
Likes: 3
From: Savannah GA
This post is not intended to inflame anyone, or say that there is only one way to prepare a Corvette body for an excellent quality paint job... but here goes. Dynaglass, Bondoglass, Tiger Hair, Kitty Hair and the like fillers are simply polyester based resins with chopped glass fillers. These products are chemically compatible with, and use the same hardeners as "Bondo" AKA mud, spit, etcetera. If you want foolproof repairs on a fiberglass body use only fiberglass to do the repair. I bought a quart of "Kitty Hair" when I started my current project, but I never opened the thng and ended up using it to patch a rotted area on the roof sheathing of my house. End of rant... sorry if I stepped on your toes!
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
I've seen on a couple of TV shows where the put a thin coat of what looks like Bondo on and then block sand that.
That's not a regular practice?
Hopefully I can get my guy over here tomorrow to answer some of these questions.
Ralph
That's not a regular practice?
Hopefully I can get my guy over here tomorrow to answer some of these questions.
Ralph
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Nothing wrong with a skim coat of bondo. Problems arise when it's put on too thick and it will shrink & crack. Proper use of it will have most of the bondo end up thin enough to be semi-transparent.
Worst use of bondo I've ever seen was one of the TV-shows where they used it to fill a big gap between hood and fender!!!
Worst use of bondo I've ever seen was one of the TV-shows where they used it to fill a big gap between hood and fender!!!
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
From: Mesa CO.
...and not all body fillers are created equal. "Cracking" can also occur in thin layers especially when too much catalyst is used (or too much sun on warm days). Have to remember that all chemically forced dried materials are typically exothermic and too much heat causes material too expand to quickly.
Patience and a good infrared heat lamp in winter when shop temps are not constant (gets cold here early in the mountains of W. CO.) And, easy to check if your resins (epoxy, polyester, etc.) are cured properly after making a repair (especially if your replacing a Vette body panel or two) since the material applied will still get "tacky" with infra-red heat.
PS. Take your time if you want a "nice" job to last awhile.
Patience and a good infrared heat lamp in winter when shop temps are not constant (gets cold here early in the mountains of W. CO.) And, easy to check if your resins (epoxy, polyester, etc.) are cured properly after making a repair (especially if your replacing a Vette body panel or two) since the material applied will still get "tacky" with infra-red heat.
PS. Take your time if you want a "nice" job to last awhile.
Last edited by Keith Carlson; Oct 5, 2011 at 10:23 AM.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 109
Likes: 2
From: In the booth Maryland
I would feather, remove as much of whats left with 80 grit, then put three good coats of a polyester primer, block with 180, then reprime with a good quality 2K primer, them block again ( 180 if you need to sand more for ripples, 400 if not) Then buy the best sealer/base/clear you can afford, I suggest staying with one paint line for these. I prefer Spies Hecker because I use it daily at work but there are other good paint lines out there.
G
G
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
Brought Tim over today and we went through the posts.
He was planning on sanding the primmer with 340 and then going over it with Scotch Bright.
We agreed to step it up and finish it like is laid out on this thread.
Adjusting the doors, hood and Ect. like should be done. Thanks everyone for your input so far.
You are helping make this come out the way it should.
I priced the primer, paint and clear here in town.
Everything came to $520.00 .... ouch.
Mason B/C..... $420.00
Epoxy Primer .. 100.00
Water base paint was another hundred dollars
Color is WA933L
Is there some place that can beat this price?
And I need a 2 foot long sanding block.
The guy in town said he doesn't believe in them and doesn't stock them.
Anything else guys, please speak up.
Ralph
He was planning on sanding the primmer with 340 and then going over it with Scotch Bright.
We agreed to step it up and finish it like is laid out on this thread.
Adjusting the doors, hood and Ect. like should be done. Thanks everyone for your input so far.
You are helping make this come out the way it should.
I priced the primer, paint and clear here in town.
Everything came to $520.00 .... ouch.
Mason B/C..... $420.00
Epoxy Primer .. 100.00
Water base paint was another hundred dollars
Color is WA933L
Is there some place that can beat this price?
And I need a 2 foot long sanding block.
The guy in town said he doesn't believe in them and doesn't stock them.
Anything else guys, please speak up.
Ralph
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,709
Likes: 3
From: Savannah GA
$520 is not very much money for material... and yes I know Nason is a "value" paint line. Does that figure include at least a quart of wax and grease remover, a gallon of primer and catalyst, at least a quart of reducer (correct in speed for the anticipated temp on "spray day"), 2 quarts base , 2 quarts clear and hardener to match... with a gallon of "wash" reducer or fast reducer for gun clean up? If not you probably won't have enough material to complete the whole job...
Epoxy primers seal really well but don't build worth a flip... will there be an intermediate step between 40 grit DA marks and primer? A "total body" skim coat of filler would scare the heck out of me... perhaps on a metal body car where the expansion/contraction is less, not on a 'glass body. My 1977 was blocked to 180 grit before primer and I still have 1.5 gallons of epoxy (3 gallons sprayable) on the car to make it straight. The car was a total Bubba'ed mess but still I wonder if $100 in primer is enough to net the "show car" look you want????
Epoxy primers seal really well but don't build worth a flip... will there be an intermediate step between 40 grit DA marks and primer? A "total body" skim coat of filler would scare the heck out of me... perhaps on a metal body car where the expansion/contraction is less, not on a 'glass body. My 1977 was blocked to 180 grit before primer and I still have 1.5 gallons of epoxy (3 gallons sprayable) on the car to make it straight. The car was a total Bubba'ed mess but still I wonder if $100 in primer is enough to net the "show car" look you want????
Tech Contributor
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 109
Likes: 2
From: In the booth Maryland
I am aware that alot of people use epoxy primer on Vettes, I don't. There are 2k primers available now that carry a lifetime warrenty over stable, clean glass. Back in the day epoxies were much better than they are today, removing lead and cutting down on other ingrediants has made epoxies not always the best choice depending on who's your using. If you check whatever companies products your using and follow their recommendations for what your doing you should get great results. If your buying what is cheap and available who knows.
Depanding in who's base your using 340? and a scuff pad may not be your best bet. I am unaware of any paint company recommending scuff pad at final sand on primer, usually 400-600 which give a consistant finish for base to adhere.
I produce straight black Vettes with no sanding block over 16". Like most things, its the quality of the sanding, not the length of the tool...
Depanding in who's base your using 340? and a scuff pad may not be your best bet. I am unaware of any paint company recommending scuff pad at final sand on primer, usually 400-600 which give a consistant finish for base to adhere.
I produce straight black Vettes with no sanding block over 16". Like most things, its the quality of the sanding, not the length of the tool...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
From: Woodland California
$520 is not very much money for material... and yes I know Nason is a "value" paint line. Does that figure include at least a quart of wax and grease remover, a gallon of primer and catalyst, at least a quart of reducer (correct in speed for the anticipated temp on "spray day"), 2 quarts base , 2 quarts clear and hardener to match... with " reducer or fast reducer for gun clean up? If not you probably won't have enough material to complete the whole job...
Epoxy primers seal really well but don't build worth a flip... will there be an intermediate step between 40 grit DA marks and primer? A "total body" skim coat of filler would scare the heck out of me... perhaps on a metal body car where the expansion/contraction is less, not on a 'glass body. My 1977 was blocked to 180 grit before primer and I still have 1.5 gallons of epoxy (3 gallons sprayable) on the car to make it straight. The car was a total Bubba'ed mess but still I wonder if $100 in primer is enough to net the "show car" look you want????
Epoxy primers seal really well but don't build worth a flip... will there be an intermediate step between 40 grit DA marks and primer? A "total body" skim coat of filler would scare the heck out of me... perhaps on a metal body car where the expansion/contraction is less, not on a 'glass body. My 1977 was blocked to 180 grit before primer and I still have 1.5 gallons of epoxy (3 gallons sprayable) on the car to make it straight. The car was a total Bubba'ed mess but still I wonder if $100 in primer is enough to net the "show car" look you want????
I don't believe this included, wax and grease remover or a gallon of wash.
I do believe it was a gallon of clear and a gallon of primer.
Spraygun thanks for the heads up.
I'll check on the 2K primer.
I do not want to go cheap at all.
Last edited by Ralphbf; Oct 6, 2011 at 11:25 PM.