Hi Guys,
Well I am jumping a bit between the various forums and this is the first time I have been in this section .
My 73 was / still is in a sorry state , rusted out rocker channels which I have replaced , rusted out rear section of the T bar , which I have replaced and holes in my windshield lower corners .

I did not really want to remove the front clip to gain access to be able to repair the windshield section , so rightly or wrongly I removed a section of the fender to gain access on both sides . I heated the outer with a heat gun and took out this piece of the fender then removed what was left of the rivets and cut the lower section out so I could work on the lower winshield frame . My question is the lower material seems to be a different composite to the fender panel , so when I put it back do I fibre glass the piece back ? Glue it back ? Or what should I use ?
I am learning with this cars body , but at least when it all goes back I should be able to get a nice even door gap , unlike the big gap I used to have between the door and the top of the fender

I hope you guys will chime in and assist , below is a photo of what I am dealing with and all advice is greatly appreciated thanks

john

 

Hi Guys,

Whilst you look at the original post , please also look at the pic of the underside of the body and the little bit you could see of the interior and advise what to smooth these areas out with and what type of primer before I can paint to give a nice finish . I have sanded out all the old glue and seams , and would like a reasonable finish .

Would I need to hand sand the outside and inside of the floor sections ?

Cheers guys ,

John




QUOTE=jakvette;1589999258]Hi Guys,
Well I am jumping a bit between the various forums and this is the first time I have been in this section .
My 73 was / still is in a sorry state , rusted out rocker channels which I have replaced , rusted out rear section of the T bar , which I have replaced and holes in my windshield lower corners .

I did not really want to remove the front clip to gain access to be able to repair the windshield section , so rightly or wrongly I removed a section of the fender to gain access on both sides . I heated the outer with a heat gun and took out this piece of the fender then removed what was left of the rivets and cut the lower section out so I could work on the lower winshield frame . My question is the lower material seems to be a different composite to the fender panel , so when I put it back do I fibre glass the piece back ? Glue it back ? Or what should I use ?
I am learning with this cars body , but at least when it all goes back I should be able to get a nice even door gap , unlike the big gap I used to have between the door and the top of the fender

I hope you guys will chime in and assist , below is a photo of what I am dealing with and all advice is greatly appreciated thanks

john[/QUOTE]

 

I wished you had posted your thoughts before you cut the body to get to the windshield corner.

Worry about getting the steel replaced and repaired...and then when it comes to the riveted on gusset/bonding strip panel....it can be sealed in placed and riveted and then depending on how the panel was cut that is under your fender corner....will dictate what can be used to bond it back in place. Then the fun of getting the outer panel back in place and repaired.

Cutting through the outer panel and its bonding strip together is really hard to repair...because there is a definitive line where this seam can now have a place to start to crack....versus...staggering the cuts.

As for applying something on the underside of your floor panel section. If you are not worried about being factory correct. I would sand it with whatever means you have and apply an epoxy primer which will give you a semi-gloss or stain finish. I know some people who have applied some Lizard skin or truck bed liner material. So hand sanding may be required in some of the tight spots...and where the areas are large and easy to use a finish sander...I would use it.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

Thanks a stack for replying .

So it looks as if the floor panels inside and out are not too much to contend with ? Yes the panels were covered in sound deadening and the stuff usually used for metal chassis and load bed linings , but i have managed to get most of that removed . The body is another issue and various areas were so full of bondo it wasnt funny .

There were bad areas of the birdcage , actually some understandable and others inexplicable where the birdcage was rusted through yet other sections where the birdcage was still painted as it left the factory . The issue i have now is repairing the winshield corners which i think rusted badly through because the section between the fender and the lower bonding strip and firewall had at sometime been filled with silicone sealer allowing the water to dam up both between the glass and the corner as well as inside the birdcage , hence you will see in the picture the top piece removed as well as the lower section inside the car .

I knew i was in for an ordeal with this and wasnt sure of a way to approach the problem , i just knew i didnt want to take off the front clip . The other problem is the products that you would use to repair the bodywork are not available here in S.A so i have to import them and send them sea freight .

I was hoping with the space i left under the section of fender i removed i could lay up a glass bonding type of strip from the fender that i could put the piece i removed onto , and bond / glue it back onto the section below that i would glue and rivet back into place .

I dont know if this is an acceptable way or solution of tackling this problem ? The other thing DUB is i have read lots and lots of your replies to the guys requesting advice and help with their corvettes and in fact you have assisted me also with questions i have posed in the general section . It seems that a definite product i require is the panel bond , which you state you would use in area's where people like me without experience would have attempted to fibre glass the areas . I know people have there preferences and products that they know has been proven and tested over the years , but is there an equivalent product made by a company like 3M ? This company is here in S.A but in fairness i am too scared to try and use a product that doesnt come with a recommendation from people who have experience such as yourself .

If there is no other suitable product here i will have to get some panel adhesive sent across by sea . Thanks for all your help both with this issue and my previous posts . I will send pictures and ask your advice as i go along if i may ?

Thanks again ,

Cheers,

John

 

The lower windshield corners are know to rust out. It is not uncommon to find it depending on where it has spent its life.

YES...there are numerous products from various manufacturers...BUT...I have settled on the ones I know work for me. NOT 'saying' that the others won't....BUT I have not tested them and have no reason to do so when I have products that never fail me in the specific processes I am using them in.

SEM, LORD FUSOR, 3M,and some that you may have in you area that have not made it to the United States can be used...but I can not confirm which one to use. Many of these 'new age' 2-part cartridge adhesives do not like to be exposed where solvents can attack them and cause them to swell. Which is why they are commonly used on the underside of a compete panel.

And if these adhesives are used...in an area where the factory GM adhesive is also present. You can possibly run into a 'conflict in interests'....meaning....the factory adhesive can shrink and swell at one rate...and the 'new age' adhesive does it at another...or it can ...and where you have a seam....such as the area where you are laminating/bonding the upper corners back on...you can have a problem in time or if they get hot like when out in the sun.

Yes..incorporating a bonding strip of some type may be required to attach the corners...but as I mentioned. When it was cut....I would have much rather the cut NOT going through the bonding strip at the door opening. Something as simple as cut made incorrectly can change how a repair will last....in my experiences.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

Thanks for the reply and assistance .
Yesterday i did manage to find a company here who is / was an agent for the evercoat products , however they do not seem very knowledgable and kept talking about the fibre fill product . The more i explained i wasnt looking for that product but was looking for the product code 880 . Well that said i think i will order the correct product from the States .

I havent had a second to do anymore on the body and its not a great time of year being winter where the temps are chilly until about 10 am and they will bounce between 20 - 25 deg C . I will first get the metal work finished and the surrounding areas treated and painted before i devise a plan to the fender and bonding strip . I will oreder and use products that the experts recommend , so no SA products on this repair

Thanks again , i will send pics as i tackle each issue and request guidance as i go along .



John

 

Before you go and order anything....LET ME KNOW.


The Evercoat 880 Vette Panel Adhesive is a good filler for filling in places on the body...but I would NOT use it to bond your 73 due to the body material. It CAN be used to FILL in areas...but NOT repair cracks ALL BY ITSELF or BOND panels on to factory under structures.

I would get the SMC Panel Adhesive (part number 994)

DUB

 

Hi DUB,
Thanks a stack .
I dont know where we would be without people like yourself on the forum .

I have to put back the steel impact bar that was bonded to the nose section . I took out the rivets and freed it off with the aid of a heat gun to get all the loose flaking and rust out of it . I had this as well as all the hardware for the bumper section powder coated . When i put this back will the adhesive you advise i use bond to the powder coated bar or does this have to be roughened up again ?

I know you a busy guy and make a living out if doing this type of work which i think the guys on the forum must appreciate when people like yourself take time to assist people like myself with our projects . I personally really appreciate you effort and assistance .

Cheers ,

John

 

John,
So we do not have a communication breakdown. It is WISE for you to post photos of what you are planning on doing. SO this 'steel impact bar' (as you called it)...is confusing to me due to the ACTUAL steel impact bar is not attached to the body in any way with rivets.

I do not know if you are referring to the steel reinforcement that is at the very front of the top hood surround....where the bumper attaches....or if it is the headlight support beam....the one between the headlight openings and the hood opening....so I am confused.

IF you are bonding steel to the fiberglass/SMC body ALONG WITH rivets. That is when the sue of the 2 part cartridge adhesives are needed. AND...you have to verify through the manufacturer if the steel needs to be BARE...or PRIMED...or SCUFFED UP. AND ASK them what to do IF the steel has been powder coated. It is NOT ALWAYS the correct choice to just slap the adhesive on and 'thinking' that it will work.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

yes the part i was referring to is as you describe , the angular bar that runs behind the inverted V of the nose and provides a bumper braket mount point and support for the mounting of the front nose / bumper section .

This was bonded and riveted onto the front of the clip and the adhesive was a green colour between the clip and this bar. It was applied in about 4 areas , namely around the very front of the V , the middle of the lengths and plenty towards the ends . It was bonded on very well and took a lot of heat on the metal bar to make it release .

I will post pictures of the section tomorrow , as i only get home from my business after 7 and the light to take pictures on the i pad is not too great , plus with the i pad i can only up load one picture at a time unless one of the boffins on computers and the like can explain to an idiot like me how to use the ipad to load more than one

Thanks again for all your help ,

John

 

YES...I glue this reinforcement back in along with the pop-rivets also.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

Thanks , I had a good look at the piece I took off and now I can clearly see the sections that the adhesive was applied to . There are small indents in the bar , almost like a knurl either side of the point and at the ends , so I would assume this is where I would apply the two pack adhesive and rivet the bar back in at the same time .

I will most likely have the lower windshield section during the course of this week , then I will repair those sections before bugging you for advice on repairing the bonding strips and the pieces I removed out of the fenders . There is still lots and lots to do to the body panels of this car to keep me busy for ages , but I will get there .

John






=DUB;1590028483]YES...I glue this reinforcement back in along with the pop-rivets also.

DUB[/QUOTE]

 

The adhesive...ALONG with the rivets...mainly gives this mounting area/surface rigidity. I generally will put a bead of adhesive BETWEEN where the rivets are installed....and also try to make sure the adhesive is on that very narrow angled portion of the metal reinforcement....so it strengthens the angle of the front end where it begins to head towards the headlight openings and emblem area.

I do not pump it so full that it makes a mess...and I am not totally concerned if it oozes all out either. I just want to know that I got it in the areas mentioned to give the fiberglass/SMC strength....versus NOT having anything at all applied. Obviously...if it does ooze out..I wipe it before it sets up.

DUB

 

Hi Guys,

Well I am sure everyone has felt the same as me , where you wonder if you will ever get your pride and joy back together and use it on a breakfast run
I eventually managed to get time to work on the vette and used it to do the repairs in the lower winshield sections and the pieces that were rotted out on the inside . When I stepped back and looked at what I had achieved I thought IS THAT ALL ?? but I then thought , you know what at least parts are now being put back on

The next difficult thing I have to deal with is putting back the top sections of the fenders I took out . So here is a question to throw out , do I put the hood on and line the fender levels up with the hood ? Or worry about lining that up after I have put the pieces back onto the fenders ? I know I should have come here first and asked DUB and the experts before I cut the fenders , but I am where I am and maybe this is something nobody has done before so a learning curve for a few others as well .

Cheers guys ,

John

 

QUESTION:

What is that red/orange-ish color stuff you have on the frame????

There is an IMPORTANT REASON why I am asking...and it has everything to do with you getting the windshield back in.

AS for getting the ends of the top hood surround back on...you will need to laminate up bonding strips for this repair. It may come back on you even with the bonding strips you laminate.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

I cleaned the windshield frame with a wire brush and sanded down to the metal especially where i welded in the panels to repair the rotted out sections . I treated as far inside the frame as i could with a rust converter, most of frame was good with the exception of where it had rusted through .
The body as you can see is still on my spit outside and i take the car cover off during the day to let the sun get onto the body.I can already see areas where small black dots are coming through the fibre glass especially in the engine bay area , i assume from oil and the like being sprayed onto the inside over the years . I didnt want the frame i cleaned to start rusting while i am busy with the rest of the repairs so i gave it a covering of red oxide primer until i can get to painting the frame along with the inside and underside of the body .

I am glad you found time to reply to my post DUB , because i need to ask you on the correct way to prep the body . Do i sand the body until it is smooth without any high and low areas then use an epoxy primer filler or slick sand and then sand again ?? I have a body guy who works only on AC COBRA kit cars , but i want him to prep the body your way not the South African way . The good thing is we are now going through the change of winter to spring and the temps are now starting to go from the 20 deg C range to 28-30 deg C range so i think a lot of the oil impregnation should come through for me to clean up . Incidentally i did order some of the Evercoat product that you recommended and it is being sent to me via ship.

Thanks for your reply , i will be guided by your comments and expertise in this project .

Cheers,

John

 

The red oxide primer you used. Is it a catalyzed product???? Where you mixed it and added a hardener to it... then thinned it and then shot it???

The reason is...here in the US....the surface of the frame where the windshield urethane will be applied. This surface of the frame either needs to be raw steel or an epoxy applied to it so the windshield company can apply the special primer for the urethane and allow it to stick. Having a product on the steel that is 'questionable' can cause a shear problem. If the car is in an accident...the primer you applied...along with the primer for the urethane that the glass company applied can shear and the glass come out. JUST SAYING.

When I am doing bodywork...the body has to be back on the frame and shimmed and that all done. Having it on a dollie or any fixture....to me....is a waste of time. Attempting to get door gaps and the hood fitted is pointless due to trying to achieve the exact same set-up when you put it on the frame can actually cause more 'possible' problems. SO...that is why I do bodywork on the frame.

Yes..the amount of sanding is all depending on what you feel when you run your hand across a panel. (Which is also why I would have it on the frame). So you are not blocking and getting panels correct...only to find out 'things' change when you get it on the frame.

Blocking down some high spots is OK...but I have an excellent sense of feel and I know what I can block out and what I have to fill and correct. LOW spots...obviously need to be prepped an filled and block sanded.

YES...you can apply the epoxy when you have the body where you feel it is OK...then apply the slicksand. And YES...if you block the slicksand and realize you need to primer it again....you can do so.

Keep in mind when you apply the slicksand..ONLY MIX what you need for that coat...then clean and wash out your paint gun. Because if you don't. The slicksand can rock up and harden while you are waiting for it to flash off and ruin your gun. And...I know you might have a little of the slicksand left over after a coat is applied. You can use that.,...even if it is getting thick...and add that to your new mix and stir it in good. AND...you might find that you can add a little acetone to thin the mix a little bit if you find that it is going on too thick and orange-peely and really coarse.

If you have any doubts on how anything you plan on spraying is going to react. TEST IT out FIRST on something you do not care about. The costs in wasting materials is NOTHING compared to having to go back in on a panel due to NOT TESTING and having it get all messed up...after you spent all that time getting it right. The SAME holds true for the epoxy primer.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

Thanks again for the reply .
I hope that there are a few guys following that are learning from the mistakes i am making and not going to follow my lead.

DUb , whilst where i live in South Africa the vehicles do not rust per say , i had cleaned off all of the old glue from the windshield when i started the repairs and this left the metal open to the elements . I just wanted to cover it with the red oxide primer to prevent oxidation on the outside again . The primer is a metal self etch primer in a rattle can, but i intended to spray the frame with a suitable paint , but did not give a moments thought to the adhesion of the winshield to the painted surface of the frame and the implications therof ( What an *** !!! )

Since i began with the 73 and the replies you have sent me regarding other issues i have made a point of searching through your replies to others regarding various repairs and have picked up your recommendations to others about sitting the body back on the chassis before attempting to address panel lines and gaps etc , but was not sure about the flatting and smoothing process . I will wait until i have finished the repairs and the spraying of the inside and underneath and engine bay before i address the outside panels .

What paint would you recommend with regards to the windshield area? I want to go with a smooth finish for the underside of the body and the engine bay so i am assuming an epoxy primer first and then the top coat ? I want to open the car to the heat of the sun during the day to try and force out any oils which have impregnated the fibre glass over the years especially in the engine bay . I don't want to put the ugly sound deadening onto the body i will fit Dynamat on the inside for insulation and road noise , not that you hear much road noise with that big block pounding your ears

Well thanks DUB for all your help , i will keep you posted with the progress .

Cheers,

John

 

AS for the red oxide primer. I am not complaining that you used it...I am just letting you know that the surface where the urethane is going to be applied will 'possibly' need to be removed so the glass company can use the urethane primer that they know will work.

AS for the windshield area where the wipers are located. Yes...you can apply an epoxy after getting all areas to you liking and then top coat it with what you want. Some want semi-glass, satin and or gloss.

DUB

 

Hi DUB,

No please , i understand where you are coming from and your concerns, very valid indeed . The primer can be removed although it is called a self etch primer .The main aim for putting the primer on was to prevent the frame from getting surface rust again .

What type of paint would you recommend i use on the windshield frame so i do not encounter issues with the bonding of the glass to the frame?

Cheers for now ,

John