Clear Coat Failure?
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From: Ohio
Clear Coat Failure?
Does this look like the start of clear coat failure to the experts here on the forum? Or more like some type of contamination damage to the clear? The tiny tiny craters are on everything from about the door handles and on up. At the right lighting and angle it looks like a coat of dust on the paint. It's a 1992. I've been afraid to try and compound and polish if in fact the clear is starting to fail. Thanks!
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From: Charlotte NC
SO...from the door handles DOWN...the paint DOES NOT have this effect in it???
Is the car parked outside with a car cover on it???
Have you looked VERY VERY VERY carefully and noticed if the car has be painted AFTER the factory paint job???
I would not say for a 100% FACT that the clearcoat is failing.....but it has issues. I have seen this type of effect in the surface of the clear as if it has been speckled by a harsh chemical or something like sandblasting....causing these super small craters in the top of the clear. I use my jewelers loupe and I can really get a really good look at them.
I honestly feel that IF you sanded and buffed the clear...you would get it so thin that it would FAIL and begin to chalk-out and turn white and that is the beginning of the end of the clearcoat when that happens.
DUB
Is the car parked outside with a car cover on it???
Have you looked VERY VERY VERY carefully and noticed if the car has be painted AFTER the factory paint job???
I would not say for a 100% FACT that the clearcoat is failing.....but it has issues. I have seen this type of effect in the surface of the clear as if it has been speckled by a harsh chemical or something like sandblasting....causing these super small craters in the top of the clear. I use my jewelers loupe and I can really get a really good look at them.
I honestly feel that IF you sanded and buffed the clear...you would get it so thin that it would FAIL and begin to chalk-out and turn white and that is the beginning of the end of the clearcoat when that happens.
DUB
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From: Ohio
From the door handles down the paint does not look like this. I've only had the car a little over a month. I keep it garaged, but the previous owner let it sit outside and only occasionally put it in a garage. It appears only the targa top may have been painted at some point in the past. The teeny tiny craters are very apparent with a magnifying glass. The previous owner of 13 years ( deceased )did work in the office of a battery plant. Would a compound and polish with my Porter Cable DA be to risky? Thanks!
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From: Charlotte NC
The reason I mentioned this is that I worked at a major manufacturing plant and one day they had a problem on the paint line and the overspray got out and about 100 cars got paint overspray on them and the plant paid to get them all detailed out.
I seriously doubt that this is solvent pop due to solvent pop is actually very small round bubbles that when broke open are shaped like a perfect bowl.
If when these are being looked at with really good magnification..I would BET that these spots are not prefect round spheres. I bet that they are erratically shaped.
DUB
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From: Ohio
Dub, thanks for looking at my post. Appreciate the help! I quess for now I'll just use a glaze and start saving for a repaint. I never considered wet sanding, but I have to admitt I was tempted to polishing with Meguiar's 205 using a Lake Country white polishing pad on my dual action Porter Cable polisher. I'm just going to save what clear coat I have left for as long as I can. To me that means not abraiding the paint with any compounds or polishes that have any abrasives in the product. Just wash and glaze from now on. Thanks again.
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Wise move...because you are the only one who can magnify these spots and actually see how deep they go. That depth of these spots is the controlling factor on whether the clear can be wet sanded and they buffed out.
DUB
DUB
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From: West Allis WI
It's difficult to tell completely from the pictures, but to me it looks like something is bonded to the surface (Second pic) like tree sap or some other contaminate.
Have you tried clay baring a section to see if it removes it? You'd want to do that before polishing anyway so its not going to hurt if you did and then polish. That would be a less invasive test prior to polishing.
Also if you did go right to polishing, check your pad right away. If your pad is turning into the color of your car, the clear coat has definitely failed and you should take it right to the body shop.
Have you tried clay baring a section to see if it removes it? You'd want to do that before polishing anyway so its not going to hurt if you did and then polish. That would be a less invasive test prior to polishing.
Also if you did go right to polishing, check your pad right away. If your pad is turning into the color of your car, the clear coat has definitely failed and you should take it right to the body shop.
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Race Director
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From: Charlotte NC
It's difficult to tell completely from the pictures, but to me it looks like something is bonded to the surface (Second pic) like tree sap or some other contaminate.
Have you tried clay baring a section to see if it removes it? You'd want to do that before polishing anyway so its not going to hurt if you did and then polish. That would be a less invasive test prior to polishing.
Also if you did go right to polishing, check your pad right away. If your pad is turning into the color of your car, the clear coat has definitely failed and you should take it right to the body shop.
Have you tried clay baring a section to see if it removes it? You'd want to do that before polishing anyway so its not going to hurt if you did and then polish. That would be a less invasive test prior to polishing.
Also if you did go right to polishing, check your pad right away. If your pad is turning into the color of your car, the clear coat has definitely failed and you should take it right to the body shop.
Attempting to do anything on this would cause for a problem due to the depth of these 'craters'. If it did turn out looking good...it more than likely would not last due to the mil thickness of the clear was so aggressively reduced to get the craters out...the clear would be so thin that it would die under the sun.
DUB
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From: West Allis WI
TRUST ME...it is NOT a substance that is on top of the paint. Because he stated that it is 'craters' in the clear.
Attempting to do anything on this would cause for a problem due to the depth of these 'craters'. If it did turn out looking good...it more than likely would not last due to the mil thickness of the clear was so aggressively reduced to get the craters out...the clear would be so thin that it would die under the sun.
DUB
Attempting to do anything on this would cause for a problem due to the depth of these 'craters'. If it did turn out looking good...it more than likely would not last due to the mil thickness of the clear was so aggressively reduced to get the craters out...the clear would be so thin that it would die under the sun.
DUB
I completely agree with you, which is why I asked to clairify since others had suggested more aggressive solutions like polishing and sanding. No need to get out the detaining big guns particularly if he hasn't pinned down the problem yet. It just wasn't clear to me looking at the pictures.
Claying would be less aggressive but you could tell with the first pass if it's something bonded to the surface or if there is a breakdown in the clear because regardless of what technique he uses to determine the damage if he sees the base coat color in his pad, piece of sand paper or in my suggestions, the clay it's likely going to be over his comfort level to fix and he should move past any detaining techniques and head right to the body shop.
Of the the few suggestions, claying is the least aggressive and will not cause any damage like sanding. Even less aggressive would be to take a MF towel with detail spray or even a mild polish in a small area and if there is no change in the surface or if any if the base coat color transfers to the towel, just take it to the body shop.
Last edited by WIC7Diver; Jun 10, 2017 at 07:35 AM.
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From: Charlotte NC
Dub
I completely agree with you, which is why I asked to clairify since others had suggested more aggressive solutions like polishing and sanding. No need to get out the detaining big guns particularly if he hasn't pinned down the problem yet. It just wasn't clear to me looking at the pictures.
Claying would be less aggressive but you could tell with the first pass if it's something bonded to the surface or if there is a breakdown in the clear because regardless of what technique he uses to determine the damage if he sees the base coat color in his pad, piece of sand paper or in my suggestions, the clay it's likely going to be over his comfort level to fix and he should move past any detaining techniques and head right to the body shop.
Of the the few suggestions, claying is the least aggressive and will not cause any damage like sanding. Even less aggressive would be to take a MF towel with detail spray or even a mild polish in a small area and if there is no change in the surface or if any if the base coat color transfers to the towel, just take it to the body shop.
I completely agree with you, which is why I asked to clairify since others had suggested more aggressive solutions like polishing and sanding. No need to get out the detaining big guns particularly if he hasn't pinned down the problem yet. It just wasn't clear to me looking at the pictures.
Claying would be less aggressive but you could tell with the first pass if it's something bonded to the surface or if there is a breakdown in the clear because regardless of what technique he uses to determine the damage if he sees the base coat color in his pad, piece of sand paper or in my suggestions, the clay it's likely going to be over his comfort level to fix and he should move past any detaining techniques and head right to the body shop.
Of the the few suggestions, claying is the least aggressive and will not cause any damage like sanding. Even less aggressive would be to take a MF towel with detail spray or even a mild polish in a small area and if there is no change in the surface or if any if the base coat color transfers to the towel, just take it to the body shop.
Claying the car would be less aggressive but as you know it is pointless if as the owner sated...he has craters.And I also agree that attempting to use a detail towel may make it a little bit better...unless teh detailing products fill in these craters and then it will look worse that if nothing was done at all.......but it will do nothing for the effect he has in the clear now which do look like the craters I have seen. It will either take sanding and buffing to get it out...which in turn just reduced the mil's of the clear and it more than likely will begin to 'chalk-out' and thus...needing to be painted.
As like what the owner wrote... he is beginning to save up for the inevitable.
And I was the one who mentioned on sanding and buffing the car (Post#2 fifth paragraph) and also let him know what could possibly happen if this was done.
No one here has the crystal ball...and at least from what I have seen and what it looks like in conjunction of his description. Attempting to get this finish literally like glass...is not going to be done and still guarantee that teh clear will hold out and not begin to fail.
DUB
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 147
Likes: 41
From: West Allis WI
Claying the car would be less aggressive but as you know it is pointless if as the owner sated...he has craters.And I also agree that attempting to use a detail towel may make it a little bit better...unless teh detailing products fill in these craters and then it will look worse that if nothing was done at all.......but it will do nothing for the effect he has in the clear now which do look like the craters I have seen. It will either take sanding and buffing to get it out...which in turn just reduced the mil's of the clear and it more than likely will begin to 'chalk-out' and thus...needing to be painted.
As like what the owner wrote... he is beginning to save up for the inevitable.
And I was the one who mentioned on sanding and buffing the car (Post#2 fifth paragraph) and also let him know what could possibly happen if this was done.
No one here has the crystal ball...and at least from what I have seen and what it looks like in conjunction of his description. Attempting to get this finish literally like glass...is not going to be done and still guarantee that teh clear will hold out and not begin to fail.
DUB
My point to clay or use a polish is strictly as a test in small area to determine the surface condition with a non-evasive, yet safe way to determine if it can be saved so if that's my crystal ball, I'll take it since it will confirm if the clear has failed.
Determining if there is base coat color transfer will do that if he wants to make sure the clear coat has indeed failed and not make the whole car look like glass but rather test surface before a final diagnoses can be made. Heck, it could just be in a small area that this damage has occurred. I just don't think any of us knows enough about the surface of this car to make a true diagnosis of the whole car looking a couple fuzzy pictures and a short narrative from the owner.
I think we've beat the respective points enough, but one thing I believe we agree on, he's going to have to get to know a body shop real soon!
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From: Ohio
Whole car was clayed about a month before. I just tried a test spot with the Wolfgang twins and my Flex with foam cutting and polishing 5 inch pads. Craters still there. Didn't break through the clear, but I'm not going any further. The clear is giving up the farm lol! Time to start saving for a repaint. Thanks everyone!