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77e, are all these parts SMC? and did I pick the right resin?
I got a buch of fiberglass work to do and I am a newbie at fiberglass. My car is an early 77 with metal floors.
Do all these parts look like SMC? From what I have been reading I am thinking yes but I want to ask the experts here to be sure.
Also for the resin I think I am going to go with West Systems 105 with the 206 slow hardener and 300 metering pumps. I can get it local at boat places here and haven't read to many issues with it. Unsure about the matting at this point.
T-top latch on roof
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inside roof back side by T-top latch
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looking down through headlight hole at backside of nose/fender
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drivers seat area looking down at top of trans tunnel(crack, background) and wiper motor pocket (foreground) on firewall ----------
#4 mount looking up
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#3 mount access door in wheel well area ripped open by PO
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Yes...the WEST SYSTEMS products you commented on is what I would use.
And as for your #4 body mount in the last photo. You are aware that the yellow arrow in the photo below is not a crack in SMC...that mark is in the metal gusset plate for the #4 mount.
Yes...the WEST SYSTEMS products you commented on is what I would use.
And as for your #4 body mount in the last photo. You are aware that the yellow arrow in the photo below is not a crack in SMC...that mark is in the metal gusset plate for the #4 mount.
DUB
Thanks for the reply. Searching here and your old posts are actually how I found out about 105 and reading up on it I think it is the product I need. I just wanted to be 100% sure I am working with SMC here.
Also my photo's are not that great (all I got is a phone cam) so maybe it looks like the metal cup is still there. It is not. It is completely rotted away. That area is not magnetic and I can see strait though to the inside through that crack. Or are you saying there should be metal inside the fiberglass?
For the #4 body mount area. I would laminate it up from the bottom. That way it would be a snap for you to sand your lamination flat. So getting the inside clean enough to allow tape to cover the hole. I would grind and taper the hole and lay up mat and resin as I mentioned.
As for the cracks you see..I would obviously laminate them all up from the outside.
The woven can be used but t can be hard to get to totally saturate.
If you are buying the Wests Systems at a boat store...they should have the mat there. And you may find you may want to shear or filet the mat to make it thinner and easier for the resin to saturate.
Most common Matt is chopped strain Matt, it is held together with a binder that dissolve with styrene, epoxy doesn’t have styrene in it, so usually is not compatible. I’ve noticed some of the cheaper Chinese Matt doesn’t have much binder in it and works for a lot of people with epoxy. Continues strain Matt would be best if only using Matt, woven with Matt stitched to the back, or biaxle with Matt stitched to the back
The fiberglass mat that is sold at boat supply stores that sell the WEST SYSTEMS epoxy resin will work just fine.
I have used the 'regular' fiberglass mat and tested it when using the WEST SYSTEMS epoxy resin and I can not see any problem in using it al all. The lamination does not fail and the part when laminated up is strong when I put it through some tests to see if the lamination is stout.
Due to employing correct laminating techniques. And knowing how to use frayed edges of the mat and distress it where you may have a slight bit more of a complex bend in the panel. Or even filet it so you are not working with the full thickness of the mat.
I can take the mat that you would not approve of using and crumble it up and work it in my hands so I take darn near all of the starchiness in it out and when I laminate it up. I would doubt that anyone could tell me which lamination was done using the correctly approved fiberglass mat adn the mat I messed with.
Like they even wrote.. "For gently curing and flat surfaces it will be fine Which basically describes a Corvette body.
Also using the correct roller tools to aid in laminating is plus. But also using a paint brush with the brush cut down can do the job quite nicely if a person takes their time and pays attention to what they are doing.
I clearly see you have a passion for this type of work. You have just joined the Forum and are a blaze of glory and want everyone to know what you know. . ..But you are 'preaching to the choir'. Many of the products you are trying to present to people may be just fine and dandy. . And are what you are used to using in your profession. Not knowing what that is due to you have not filled out your Public Profile. So...pass along anything you feel it important. But do not feel offended if there are replies that may differ from your views and any supported text you find. Much like how I mentioned that acetone is approved to use in polyester primer that has styrene in it.
Because I can find written text on many things that I know I can contradict from experience and the written text is often times written to protect companies from having to warranty products. I have talked personally with enough chemists for the products I use and actually find out what the real limit of the product is and how it reacts that is NOT in the written text. Knowing how far to push a product is wise so at least for me. I know the failure point.
Thinning gelcoat with acetone is “budget build” quality not “professional” quality. I have been working with fiberglass for 10 years, building boats, repair work, tooling, and now I do body work, which is the same as tooling(building plugs and molds basically Same materials. I always keep up with the latest technology and I put them to the test as well. What “works” and what lasts 10 years from now are two different things and saying “I have been doing it this way is not a valid conformation on if it’s correct. Read the TDS for all products and follow application guides, they pay chemist a lot of money to write those.
CLEARLY you have your own opinion but you still seem to skirt the FACT that acetone CAN be used and is stated on the cans of polyester products that have styrene in them. So I guess if the manufacturer states it is able to be used they are not doing it correctly as YOU see it. But yet these products have been put on the market and used with great success for way longer than you have been doing this type of work.
When you get 30+ years in the business...then maybe you will know a bit more due to I have been doing this and I have seen the improvements made and how things changed and I do keep up with what is needed due to I am liable for all of my repairs....structural and cosmetic. I lived through the transition of lacquer to basecoat/clearcoat and was using epoxy primer right when it hit the market...and all of the 'new' products that came out that were supposedly the best but failed and the 'old' products were actually working fine.
SO when I advise people on the steps I would take to repair a damaged area. I have the years of work that is out on the road to back it up. So my comments are not that of a 'budget builder' . I have to worry about many things and and I am not a 'scratch and dent' bodyman. So if you are going to embark in doing body repair.. Best of luck to you....not that you will need it ...seems like you have it all figured out......but you will soon find out...depending on how many jobs you take that are really hard hits and have to repair them and stand behind that repair as long as they own the car. I DO...and that includes all of the mechanical/e;ectrical issues also.....thus..I am a professional....regardless of your views.
One thing you will find out if you have not already is how there are ways to achieve an excellent repair and not have to go nuts on it. I will say that there are absolute standards of prep and application of some products that must be followed. of potential problem will arise. But buying into each and everything that is written and not asking questions to those who designed and formulated these products is a hindrance. I have been to enough certification classes that when we discuss a product we get really deep into it and realize that the parameters of said products are set to the 'safe' standards ...but that those products in many cases can be adjusted with no ill effects.
So if you don't think I have tested and abused my tests in the decades of me doing this to be able to respond to questions and have real world results. I can not help you if you feel that way..
Listen Derek, if your purpose was to join this forum and express your opinions feel free to as is your right. Come here and bust Dubs ***** on your first day and feel free to go somewhere else. At this point I'd listen to the dumbass at Autozone about fiberglass repairs than anything you post with the attitude you're chucking around.
Not sure what's got your britches in a bunch but Dub Cleary states in every post(if not every post damn near every post) he's posting his experiences and his preferences AND there's always more than one way to skin a cat. I've seen his work nd seen the results of his advice both here and in person and it's top notch advice and tips/techniques.
In other words don't **** on the guy who has helped and will help more people than we can count because you may disagree with his useage or techniques.
You obviously have a biased opinion, and will never evolve. Read both of the post, he attack anything that disagrees with him. Read all the post and tell me what you got out my attitude, yes there are many ways to skin a cat, so why disregard what I say besides the fact that it doesn’t agree with you. People are only learning one way of doing Things with your mentality , why don’t you back up what you say with something more than just opinion.
The whole point in this forum is to help and teach people you two are stopping all that. I posted an article of why csm shouldn’t be used with epoxy because of the styrene based binder in it. At least people should know about it, just because you don’t care someone else might want to read it, and you post these long drawn out dramatic messages so they have to scroll up half a page to see it.
EVOLVE. I have evolved my techniques more than you can imagine. And I had to do it ALL without benefit of the internet.
You have no idea on how many 'new products ' have been given to me by jobbers and 'they say' that it is the BEST. But yet...they NEVER do this stuff so I test it and find that either it is good or crap. So...just because a jobber gives me a tube of this or that. I check it out first and so many of them have failed and did not provide ANY significant increase in time savings or quality of the repair.
READ what you write before you submit it. Because YOU casted the first stone towards me READ the text of the threads due to you are making comments when you obviously did not read or comprehend what was written in a thread. So do not get 'pissy'. .
When you jumped in on the Lingenfelter thread and commented about the transmission tunnel lamination.. YOU did not read what I wrote or really look at the photo and I had to go back and show you that.
Get your facts straight on who started what FIRST.
....anyways back to the topic, always make sure the Matt you use is compatible with epoxy.
Not all fiberglass Matt is the same, while the one you use works for you dub, someone buying Matt from another source than you may get one that is not and could come back to haunt them down the road...
08-06-2018, 04:49 PM
77e, are all these parts SMC? and did I pick the right resin?
