joe11204

I say lets all meet at a diner and work it out over a few burgers.

Jay is paying..

4DRUSH

Good idea, Dennis is loaded

Rob Petyo

I was thinking something along those lines but wanted to keep the burgers amongst C5 owners / drivers

dennis50nj

was that mayhem

123sugey

So, with Brett the previous owner of my Z ran better a ET than myself should receive the #2 or 3 spot from 5 years ago ? Or my personal best of myself driving the same Z with a slower time receive the # 4 spot ?
Another potential.. Shop owners have .0001%+ more say than an owner/driver ?!?
What about a 2600 lb C5 total race car vs real world drivable cars ?

Rob Petyo

Very good questions Chris.

I would have to refer you to Gary who is the keeper of the C5Z06 list.

Not to avoid you I would have said everything had changed once the vehicle changed hands and now you were allowed to record your car as you see fit. That it was YOUR car and in your name but...you raise a great question. What if robz sold his car, does the next owner become an automatic *** ... there's a great scenario where if we use the car, even though it has been sold and you haven't quite gotten the same conditions yet as to what Bret had or for whatever reason the car hasn't gone as fast. Almost makes buying someone else s race-car less desirable but the car hasn't lost any of it's edge and or value Good reason to use name but what if the name is a total unknown around here (mayhem)? Or better yet ... robz drove cars 1-2-3-4-5 this fast.

This is not an attack on rob so please don't take it that way. He is well known here and is a great example of driver and vehicle knowledge so I used his name. Doug (ECS) is a very good driver and I could have used him. I do not know Tune-times, vette doctors, TCR or Cartek's (locals around me) driving abilities personally so I prefer not to pick on them.

A good example in the C5 section would be whoever just bought Edgars car is in that boat with you.

Another 'infrequently used' section?

I don't know of any C5's that are that low in weight but there may be Z's in your class. A full blown race-car such as robz's comes to mind and who can compete at that level but that is part of the whole point IMHO, rob has lowered the bar so low that you might not want to invest that sort of change to better his time but as far as a place to see how fast a H/C/I Z06 can go, just check the list and you can find him there, right at the top where he belongs...

My C5 is a bit heavier although I'm not exactly sure where it sits today but with the stock suspension I can assure you it is my daily driver and handles very well on the street. I may change things if I were to go road racing with it, for example, changing the water pump back comes to mind but my C5 in the 346 H/C/I class drives on the street like it's on rails...I change over to the drag-pack to race it but, it's back to street trim (wheels/tires/seats) again that evening, to go on a sunset cruise...

I am not sure right now what you are talking about with shop owners, I may in the morning after I get some sleep (If I can sleep) but for now, can you please clarify?

I do not want to give shop owners or any sponsor more say but would like to hear the other side. Doug brought up a good point about the sponsors paying to be here and if a clutch, cam, or any other tech sponsor for example decided to jump into the thread, I would welcome the fresh ideas from their viewpoint, why not? They probably have more experience in racing then I ever will.

I do plan on asking a few C5 people to help me with this just as the C5Z section had input from 3 or 4 people

thank you for the input!

opinions welcome ...

digivex

Every time a car rolls up to the water box in NHRA, you usually know four pieces of info pretty quickly: The Driver, The Owner, The Tuner and The Main sponsor(s).

I'm not saying we're pro NHRA top fuelers here, but I would like to see all car records.

That type of info may also help existing shops, tuners and newer shops to show they can build a quick car and there is nothing wrong with knowing who built or tuned the car since it may help others if they desire to be at that level and don't do their own wrenching.

dennis50nj

Rob this is Mayhem

pit-man

Chris,
I really like the idea of you moving to #4 spot so I CAN MOVE UP

oh wait, I forgot Pray stays where he is, I go down to #5 (bummer...lol)

DOUG @ ECS

Great points made.


I like the idea of just clarifying the outstanding points of the car. If not by other then a red [Additional info in post #234] if it's anything other then a regular owner/driver build so the list is easy to read, but ALL the info of the car is reviled if you wish to post your times on the list. That includes if you bought someones car, but you do not change the name on the times that the previous owner ran. That is their record, you can have yours. Again, everyone is happy. How often is that going to happen anyway?

That way people can learn from each other as we have done at the ECS Corvette challenges for years, all the shops that went there learned a lot from each other and we are all better shops now because of it.



So you end up with a complete list thats easy to see what a C5 has ran, and you can look at all the info on it. Any listing with the red "INFO" on it has something other then straight owner/driver attached to it.

Rob Petyo

good point!

The above would work 'IF' the person added an additional post to clarify the scenario

example:

what if you said you just beat my time and I knew you do not personally own a H/C/I car with a stock bottom - and offered no additional information other then doug @ shop beat you?

4DRUSH

Have a list of questions that needs to be answered before the time is submitted, like the C6Z fast list.

Only without all the gay power trip stuff.

DOUG @ ECS

If ALL the information regarding the car is not given, then no it's not listed. Thats not fair to you, the owner/driver who may not have some of the advantages that a shop might, so that should be recognized by no [INFO post 2345] in the listing.


an Owner/driving would just have the post number in black in the listing that describes their mod list and full details of the pass.


The red mark is the non owner/drivers mark of shame lets say so the "purists" have the proper recognition thats deserved, but the list is complete too of what these cars have ran.

Everyone happy I would think?

But I'm certainly open for discussion and just giving my opinion on it.

Rob Petyo

I just feel the list needs to be updated.

I also feel I know all there is to know about corvettes and really should make all the decisions myself however, we are into 2013 and I would like to this to be a useful tool for everyone and a place where the owner/drivers can show their accomplishment as well as the purist that want to see what combinations work the best and just what these cars can accomplish.

I have nothing to gain in this. The idea of making the list better is just part of my nature I guess. Maybe its the civil servant in me In real life I am just a weapon system manager for the Navy's attack helicopter program. I do not turn my own wrenches and would like to see things improved if possible.

The people I have asked to represent the different aspects are:

Doug at ECS
I feel Doug he has been involved in the Corvette community for a long time and really does understand the owners thoughts on going fast as well as being a shop owner and is a forum sponsor.

joe11204
To keep Doug inline I have asked joe11204 to assist where needed. I asked Joe because I don't want this to look like I am playing favorites with the ECS camp. and only having a C5 perspective in things. Besides, I think his car is about the most badazz thing around and he has great ideas, which brings me to...

4DRUSH
Jay has been my hero for a long time representing the C5 community and I feel can offer a drivers perspective and has nothing to gain and will help the corvette community any way he can. His honesty when talking to him is why I asked. He didn't tell me what I wanted to hear but told me more 'like it was' and I appreciated that about him.

LSOHOLIC
This guy is not from around here and I feel can offer a lot of useful information and a perspective found from the South and the West coast as well. It's his job to keep us inline with the rest of the world - outside of the NorthEAST

I feel, together we can put a simple list together that will be utilized and helpful to many.

I value all of their opinions and ideas, I hope you do too.

Thanks Guys!

Ideas are still welcome ...

DOUG @ ECS

Thats not fair to Joe Rob, you gave him the crappiest job.



A discussion that came up in my office earlier, we had a customer pick up a C6 Z06 with a friend who drove a Mustang so naturally there was some friendly smack talk going on.
John Miller's car is here for some powder coating and the C6Z fast list came up and the Mustang guy said "so the fastest a C6Z in full GM trim has ran is 8.81? I said "no there has been a few faster including that one over there", he said "so why aren't they on the list then?" I said "they were not allowed due to the driver not being the owner", his reply was "well thats stupid, I would have assumed nothing has been faster if I wasn't here".

I said, "yes... I know".


(true story btw)

Rob Petyo

Joe has a good job!

Maybe we should consider having a discussion, talking about including a list to show what other peoples step children have done .... I'd hate to make this more then C5 owners but where else is this sort of stuff to be found? You know you struck a nerve mentioning a mustang owner

Doug, here's another issue that recently came up... I now have another car and I'm thinking about making it so a couple of us are going to be driving it, you know who it is BTW... and you know we're going to be seeing who can go faster in it.

DOUG @ ECS

I was just kidding with you Rob, sort of, I wouldn't want to have to keep me in line.

I didn't mean to include anything other then C5 cars, but my thoughts were if your car ran faster with another driver and that driver wished to post his/her time then it can posted with the drivers name and red tagged with the full description in the post for that pass entry.

But again, whatever majority rule wants.

Mark-44

The C5 owner should drive his own car to have his car ranked on the C5 quick list. This simple rule encourages the owner/driver to become experienced; with my own car I definitely had a feeling of accomplishment as my times got better. Seat time was very important and I had a simple goal -- to move up the list.
Mark 44

DOUG @ ECS

So you feel that if a C5 ran an incredible time by a driver that does not own the car it should not be recognized or able to see what the car has ran by looking it up on the CF?

If an owner simply does not have the experience or driving skills himself, is he or she any less of a Corvette enthusiast who wants to see their car move up or down on the list?

Rob Petyo

and that's alright that you feel that way, after all isn't that what happens most of the time anyway, that we push ourselves to learn more and get better? How do we get better - MORE SEAT TIME!!

and more mods but that's another discussion

This discussion has taken a little twist and that is to keep the main part of the list as the owner driver. 95% of the time it's going to be owner/operator anyway. The guy who just picked up his first C5 and is very proud of his vehicle and him/herself for running the 12 sec 1/4 mile... they have the same feeling that someone else may experiences when they run into the 10's for the first time.

But, it's also for the person who picks up the phone and asks the question: I live in this part of the country and what do I need to do to run an 11.50 quarter mile? That person will have a place to come to see different setups running the times that they are looking for and at that point will be able to draw their own conclusions as to what type of setup choices available to meet their goals... And the guy who has the potential to break into the 9's but doesn't quite know what the car is doing but it "just doesn't feel right".

But here's another scenario; we recently had a rental and because a lot of us are friends and help each other to go faster, sometimes it's not uncommon to let one of your buddies drive your car. My mechanic, Tommy for example, does drive mine and others occasionally. He does this stuff for a living, I don't and I wanted a second opinion ... not knowing if everything is fine or something is about ready to go. so, what if he did a test drive and went faster than my best time? Would it not count? Maybe I didn't drive it but certainly my car went faster, no?

a. I would now be able to find out what he did differently from me and I would try to improve my driving by following his recommendations. Isn't this what makes us better at almost all things? following the advice and experience of others who have more experience and have done it before -- at work we call them mentors.

b. The potential of my car with me in it and if all of the variables were the same. I now have something to shoot for knowing the car is capable of at least THAT time... The car can do it ... it's just now my turn to make it happen.

3 or, we could do nothing like the car never ran it.